Helping people learn how to learn

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  • #1988811
    ari-free
    Participant

    Here is the situation. Many people started learning gemara later in life. So they figure they’ll get the artscroll and follow a daf yomi shiur. There are lots of daf yomi shiurim but most of them are basically the same running through the gemara. Can we do better? What I’d like to see are shiurim that can teach a late beginner the same way he would have been taught if he went to a yeshiva ketana/mesivta with exercises and tests so that he is eventually able to lain a gemara on his own, working up to rashi, tosfos and beyond.

    #1988925
    ubiquitin
    Participant

    Go for it

    #1988931
    Avram in MD
    Participant

    Look up “Fundamentals of Talmud” by Rav Ayson Englander.

    #1988936
    Sam Klein
    Participant

    There are programs for it with learning a amud a day and also reviewing the amud of the day before and it comes with tests monthly and at the end of the perek and entire masechta of the Gemara of amud yomi.

    The name of the program which runs worldwide in many towns is called the ORAYSA learning program. Check it out and be matzliach

    #1988963
    commonsaychel
    Participant

    Ari-Free for assistant chief rabbi of the coffee room

    #1988979

    If you learn as an adult, you do not necessarily learn the same way as a kid. You can learn more concepts and utilize your knowledge while being less successful in covering a lot of material without the depth. Compare with a kid playing piano, a note by note, not really being bothered by mistakes v. an adult who listened to best music and is bothered every time he is off-key.

    #1988980

    So, you may be better off reading or listening to a class that covers a topic in depth, maybe looking up multiple sources yourself. When you go through several sugyot like that, then you may want to go through whole text.

    #1988993
    AviraDeArah
    Participant

    I highly recommend R. Aryeh Carmell’s sefer, known unofficially in yeshivos as “the small white book”, it’s called “siyata legamara”, it has a list of very common terms and how they’re used; it’s easy to memorize and is presented in a very clear format.

    I’ve learned with adults who have started in their 40s…they are mechaven to rishonim and can learn tosfos just like anyone else! Never give up!

    #1989009
    Reb Eliezer
    Participant

    There are computer programs gemara tutor and master talmud available at tes – jewishsoftware dot com. Gemara tutor teaches the idioms of the gemora to know how to set the words. Whereas, master talmud teaches the logic of the gemara recogniable by key words.
    To learn aramaic. it is advisable to do weekky shenayim mikra v’echad targum, two times the pasuk and once the targum. For Rashi, hebrew is must be understood where the knowledge of the roots of the words is required. There is a book from Barons called 501 Hebrew Verbs.

    • This reply was modified 3 months, 2 weeks ago by Reb Eliezer.
    • This reply was modified 3 months, 2 weeks ago by Reb Eliezer.
    #1989016
    Reb Eliezer
    Participant

    There is help to understand the gemara called chavrusa.

    #1989023
    Reb Eliezer
    Participant

    Sorry, I massed up the name it should be Talmud Master rather than Master Talmud.

    #1989021
    Reb Eliezer
    Participant

    There is a website called dafyomi dot co dot il which has extra material to learn the daf.

    #1989072
    aheilig
    Participant

    Try AllDaf website, excellent speakers, varied programs and levels.

    #1989122
    ari-free
    Participant

    I found this site learning how to learn gemara by Rabbi Nachman Morgan and in his introduction he makes the same point, that we have artscroll and daf yomi shiurim but there is a void when it comes to learning on their own. But i wondered why only 3 shiurim…really sad…he passed away from covid shortly after his final post!
    Fortunately he has another site, ezralatalmid with many more shiurim as audio files…he gave this kind of shiur to late beginner in LA for many years.

    #1989201
    Reb Eliezer
    Participant

    The computer programs above are enjoyable multiple choice games that teach the expressions in gemara, e.g. bamei askinin, what are we taking about, that when recognized will allow one to set words correctly. The other teaches the keywords that intruduce ae.g. a kashyeh, eiseva, maskif, iboei lehu, to shema which can be a kashe, question or tiretz. answer depending where the chamor appears. Chamor can mean either wine or a donkey depending on the context.

    #1989275
    Reb Eliezer
    Participant

    The two programs together are less than $100 at the above website.

    #1989282
    Reb Eliezer
    Participant

    I am told by the above website that the Gemara Tutor has been rewritten to be downloadable to a smart phone the Talmud Master not yet.

    #1989561
    Benephraim
    Participant

    Please use the Gemara card which is laminated.Also 12th grade in high school should have a mandatory daf yomi to acclimate to that direct halimud.I will be davening for hatzlacha for all of you.

    #1989864
    LefelSoicher
    Participant

    Shalom,
    if you speak hebrew, there’s a great melamed who either teaches one on one or you can buy his course. His name is R’ Yinon Giladi, He studied in Rabbi Shteinzaltz/Even-Yisroel’s Yeshiva as a bachur. He has a special way of teaching how to learn Gemarah, and lehavdil, tutors high mathematics and other subjects. I personally learn by him, and his website is talmudit.
    Hatzlacha!

    #1992133
    ari-free
    Participant

    More great finds!
    Bright Beginnings Gemara workbooks by Rabbi Yakov Horowitz and Rabbi Aaron Spivak (brachos and eilu metzios)
    Gemara academy website by Rabbi Hoffinger
    “Perek hamafkid letalmidim” by Rabbi binyomin Simpson

    #1992143
    Reb Eliezer
    Participant

    ari-free, we need general guidelines which I provided through those two computer programs, otherwise it applies to that tractate and example only.

    #1992192
    ari-free
    Participant

    Will look that up as well!

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