Herd Immunity for Dummies

@y123

So its a bit like “tragedy of the commons” whereby I benefit the most if everyone else vaccinates and I don’t yet all of us have the same choice. Recycling is similar in that I benefit from everyone else’s recycling even if I don’t recycle myself which makes my life easier.

Hence we need Big Brother to force us to vaccinate to protect ourselves from ourselves.

The reason herd immunity can’t happen in a vaccinated (artificial immune) population
1. Vaccines are not 100% effective (sometimes as low as 50%)
2. Vaccines create temporal (short-term) antibodies ONLY, most of these vaccines lost their effectiveness 2 to 10 years after being given.
3. Dr. Merrill Chase , did clear-cut research on this issue back in the 1950s. His results are clear: antibody levels don’t determine immunity.

In essence, at least 50% or more of the population was unprotected for decades.

Someone is still living in the 50s.

@truthishidden But you don’t actually have a valid argument! Antibodies wear off after a few years which is why it is crucial to vaccinate young! Proper herd immunity will kill a virus in a vaccinated population after only a few short years which is why we don’t need to keep vaccinating adults every decade. And your raya to this is a study from the 1950s?! Studies from a little as 10 years ago are out of date, who knows what data and facts came to light in 60+ years!

No valid “argument” presented.

This herd immunity is similar to a king who told his servants to bring wine to fill a barrel. One individual thought why should I bring wne? I will bring water and nobody will notice, but if everyone wil do that, we end up with water. Similarly, if people do not immunize relying on others, they won’t have any immunity.

I just wonder who all these Lakewooders who don’t vaccinate asked before their decision????

WHich Rav?

The prevailing theory as to how polio has been eradicated according to non vaxers is spelled out in Dr susan Humphrey’s book dissolving illusions. Basically, polio had always been a normal gut bacteria. It had never bothered anyone. When DDT was in widespread use all around the world, those areas saw the largest spikes in polio cases. People used DDT in their homes to kill disease spreading insects, the government sprayed public beaches with it when people were there. DDT has been thought to open up the lining of the intestines to allow bacteria through, which could go where they should not go. Among other things, the huge amount of children who removed their tonsils were at a higher risk of bulbar polio ( where the brain would get infected) due to the close proximity of the throat to the brain. In fact, polio has NOT been eradicated in India, the country that still has DDT in use, in spite of HUGE vaccination rate of polio- it is said that children there receive more than a dozen polio vaccines.
Furthermore- before the vaccine was invented, any time a child got any paralyzing illness, it was called POLIO. They didn’t send out labs to identify which bacteria had gotten into the spinal cord. In fact, many cases that were called polio were not confirmed ever. Nowadays we STILL have diseases that mimic polio, they just have fancy names like acute flaccid paralysis and transverse myelitis and more.

polio had always been a normal gut bacteria.

Polio is a virus, not a bacterium.

In fact, polio has NOT been eradicated in India, the country that still has DDT in use, in spite of HUGE vaccination rate of polio-

Yes, it has.

it is said that children there receive more than a dozen polio vaccines.

Said by whom? Liars and kooks like Suzanne Humphries ?

Let’s hope they find a vaccine for them

Oh and Suzanne humphreys has a very interesting background… she was a standard run of the mill nephrologist working in a hospital getting a fat salary. She saw patient after patient have bad reactions to the typical flu shot given to hospital patients. Remember, vaccines are not tested for sick or pregnant- but they certainly give them the vaccines. Her patients (who probably had all kinds of kidney issues) would say, doctor, I was fine until that darn shot. This caused her to start looking into vaccines and reading up on the safety studies etc . To make a long story short, what she saw going on in the vaccine/medical industry so sickened her that she left her job, and became an anti vax investigator and spokesperson. Now she makes far less and gets destroyed by the medical establishment. Who would you trust, Suzanne or Paul profit, I mean Offit, who walked away with tens of millions from his rotavirus vaccine that he both created and voted to add to the childhood vaccine schedule.

Ok so polio went down in India.

Not “went down”. E L I M I N A T E D. Immediately after full immunization was achieved. And despite the use of DDT. Therefore Suzanne Humphrey’s bizarre hypothesis is completely exploded.

But polio like illnesses have been on the rise .

So what? Those are not polio. The polio virus is not present in those cases. There are many diseases we do not yet understand, and have no vaccine for. In the normal course of events some of them rise in incidence, while some decline. There is no dramatic rise or decline in polio-like illnesses.

Suzanne Humphries didn’t just turn anti-vaxx, she renounced medicine altogether and became a homeopath. Which means any sane person would run far away from her. Ironically the whole basis of homeopathy is the (ridiculous) idea that you can cure diseases by giving the patient a very tiny (really non-existent) amount of the very thing that (allegedly) causes that disease. In other words, vaccination.

I’d bet, though, that she makes far more money today than she did as a real doctor.

2scents and Milhouse are clearly pushing an agenda, are you a pediatrician that get paid for vaccinating your patients?

In 2003, when polio was endemic in India, 8,500 cases of AFP were recorded. So far in 2015, a year after India was declared polio free, there have been nearly 18,000 reported instances but none linked to polio.
(The Wall Street Journal)

“You may choose to look the other way, but you can never say again that you did not know.”
— William Wilberforce

“2scents and Milhouse are clearly pushing an agenda, are you a pediatrician that get paid for vaccinating your patients?”

I cannot speak for others, but I prefer to base my position on facts and real science. When you or others oost nonsense and expect to get away with it, all I do is expose the truth. that in its own is an agenda.

Now of course, once you reach a point of not being able to validate the conspiracy you so strongly believe in, you just blame everyone of being involved.

If only your agenda would be to know the true facts you wouldn’t be so defensive, you would appreciate that lies and made up data is not something most people are ok with.

are you a pediatrician that get paid for vaccinating your patients?

Pediatricians do not get paid much for vaccinations; they often lose money on them.

Yash Paul’s paper was published in 2006. His predictions proved very wrong. Contrary to his dismissal of the idea that previous eradication efforts had failed because large pockets of unvaccinated children continued to carry the virus, that proved to be exactly the case. By concentrating on Uttar Pradesh, Bihar, and the routes migrant workers took to and from those states, polio was completely eradicated from India by 2011.

Yes, the oral vaccine does cause some cases of polio, but far fewer than it prevents, so as long as the wild virus is prevalent it must be used; once it has been completely eradicated from a region it becomes time to switch to a less effective but safer vaccine, which has now been done, just as it has in the US and Europe. Nobody here gets the oral vaccine any more, but if we hadn’t been given it when we were kids polio would still be ravaging us.

And yes, unexplained polio-like illnesses do seem to be on the rise at the moment. They are not polio; they test negative for the polio virus. Once we figure out what they are we will develop vaccines for them too. Meanwhile there is no evidence at all that the polio vaccine has anything to do with them. It’s just wild speculation by irresponsible people.

sariray -“Gee… if anti vaxers hate vaccines so much, maybe they would agree to give one or two or even three… but why would they choose to give one for a disease that hasn’t been seen in the US for about 30 years?”

Another Anti-vaxxer LIE!
There’s still a chance to pick up Polio in the US.

From the CDC:
“Polio has been eliminated from the United States thanks to widespread polio vaccination in this country. This means that there is no year-round transmission of poliovirus in the United States. Since 1979, no cases of polio have originated in the United States. However, the virus has been brought into the country by travelers with polio. The last time this happened was in 1993. It takes only one traveler with polio to bring the disease into the United States. The best way to keep the United States polio-free is to maintain high immunity (protection) in the population against polio through vaccination.”