November 29, 2018 10:01 am at 10:01 am #1632867
Herd immunity made simple that even dummies can understand!
Did you ever wonder why you can get away with choosing to not immunize? We’ll explain it to you in an easy way so that even YOU can understand!
Herd Immunity is the fact that a huge percentage of the population immunizes. When herd immunity is achieved (by the fact that the vast majority of the population is immunized) it provides a strong level of protection to EVERYONE, including dummies who choose to not immunize.
Without the effect of herd immunity, dummies who didn’t immunize would be at great risk of infection by diseases. And therefore wouldn’t be so dumb as to not immunize. So the very freedom to dummly not immunize comes because 90+% of everyone else does immunize.
But if we start getting more dumb people who don’t immunize, then herd immunity is lost. And people start getting infected with serious and deadly diseases that have an outbreak in populations that not enough people immunized.
So if you’re an anti-vax dummy, you must hope and pray that their aren’t too many people as dumb as you who don’t immunize. Because if more people join your dumb choice, cause or decision to not immunize, YOU will be forced to immunize to not become affected.
© John Wiley & Sons®November 29, 2018 3:23 pm at 3:23 pm #1633260
If you want a visual, animated, interactive demonstration, search for “Research on Complex Systems: D3 Herd Immunity Simulator”.
It creates a population of 300 simulated people, and you can set how fast they have children and how many are immunized. When you run it, it clearly demonstrates why a high vaccination rate is crucial to the overall health of a group of people.November 29, 2018 6:30 pm at 6:30 pm #1633412Eli YParticipant
So its a bit like “tragedy of the commons” whereby I benefit the most if everyone else vaccinates and I don’t yet all of us have the same choice. Recycling is similar in that I benefit from everyone else’s recycling even if I don’t recycle myself which makes my life easier.
Hence we need Big Brother to force us to vaccinate to protect ourselves from ourselves.December 2, 2018 2:07 pm at 2:07 pm #1635295
I don’t need, nor want your herd immunity, so if your vaccinating to protect me, please stop!December 2, 2018 2:08 pm at 2:08 pm #1635294
The reason herd immunity can’t happen in a vaccinated (artificial immune) population
1. Vaccines are not 100% effective (sometimes as low as 50%)
2. Vaccines create temporal (short-term) antibodies ONLY, most of these vaccines lost their effectiveness 2 to 10 years after being given.
3. Dr. Merrill Chase , did clear-cut research on this issue back in the 1950s. His results are clear: antibody levels don’t determine immunity.
In essence, at least 50% or more of the population was unprotected for decades.December 2, 2018 3:52 pm at 3:52 pm #1635359ubiquitinParticipant
“I don’t need, nor want your herd immunity, so if your vaccinating to protect me, please stop!”
Write this down, since you pro-diseasers can’t seem to get simple ideas into your heads. It isn’t about you. Period. you are free to do as you please. Go to Madagascar have a great big measles, polio , small pox, and whatever other diseases you like party infect each other gezunterheit. Just stay out of our schools and shuls.
What I do care abut (since you don’t) is you poor innocent children. But this isnt about you.December 2, 2018 11:37 pm at 11:37 pm #1635558apushatayidParticipant
Someone is still living in the 50s.December 3, 2018 12:54 am at 12:54 am #1635606
Someone doesn’t have a good answer to the valid argument brought.December 3, 2018 8:08 am at 8:08 am #1635623
@truthishidden But you don’t actually have a valid argument! Antibodies wear off after a few years which is why it is crucial to vaccinate young! Proper herd immunity will kill a virus in a vaccinated population after only a few short years which is why we don’t need to keep vaccinating adults every decade. And your raya to this is a study from the 1950s?! Studies from a little as 10 years ago are out of date, who knows what data and facts came to light in 60+ years!December 3, 2018 8:08 am at 8:08 am #1635625Avi KParticipant
Joseph, should those who don’t immunize be forced to subsidize those who do? TANSTAAFL.December 3, 2018 2:26 pm at 2:26 pm #1636009apushatayidParticipant
No valid “argument” presented.December 7, 2018 2:16 pm at 2:16 pm #1639291
@Avi K: Should those who don’t get Section 8 housing be forced to subsidize those who do? TANSTAAFS.December 7, 2018 2:16 pm at 2:16 pm #1639290Reb EliezerParticipant
This herd immunity is similar to a king who told his servants to bring wine to fill a barrel. One individual thought why should I bring wne? I will bring water and nobody will notice, but if everyone wil do that, we end up with water. Similarly, if people do not immunize relying on others, they won’t have any immunity.December 8, 2018 6:34 pm at 6:34 pm #1639375
For those that understand the dangers of vaccines, they do not need, nor want your “herd immunity.”
We would be a healthier population if everyone stopped vaccinating.
We are not afraid of the so-called “deadly diseases,” they are not as deadly as the CDC would have us believe.
The vaccines are deadlier.December 8, 2018 6:34 pm at 6:34 pm #1639377YerushalmitParticipant
I just wonder who all these Lakewooders who don’t vaccinate asked before their decision????
WHich Rav?December 8, 2018 6:34 pm at 6:34 pm #1639378YerushalmitParticipant
And what do the say now????
What about all the Rabbonim who are now coming out to say ine must vaccinate his children even without being asked?
I also wonder ow they feel when they find out how many children are sick now!!!!December 8, 2018 7:12 pm at 7:12 pm #1639429
truthishidden: How has Polio been eliminated as a prevalent disease in the world?December 8, 2018 8:20 pm at 8:20 pm #1639483
Here are some of the answers
A. Polio never existed.
B. It never killed anyone, never paralyzed anyone.
C. Its still here, just under another name.
D. It decided to disappear on its own.
E. All the above.December 8, 2018 8:54 pm at 8:54 pm #1639498
The prevailing theory as to how polio has been eradicated according to non vaxers is spelled out in Dr susan Humphrey’s book dissolving illusions. Basically, polio had always been a normal gut bacteria. It had never bothered anyone. When DDT was in widespread use all around the world, those areas saw the largest spikes in polio cases. People used DDT in their homes to kill disease spreading insects, the government sprayed public beaches with it when people were there. DDT has been thought to open up the lining of the intestines to allow bacteria through, which could go where they should not go. Among other things, the huge amount of children who removed their tonsils were at a higher risk of bulbar polio ( where the brain would get infected) due to the close proximity of the throat to the brain. In fact, polio has NOT been eradicated in India, the country that still has DDT in use, in spite of HUGE vaccination rate of polio- it is said that children there receive more than a dozen polio vaccines.
Furthermore- before the vaccine was invented, any time a child got any paralyzing illness, it was called POLIO. They didn’t send out labs to identify which bacteria had gotten into the spinal cord. In fact, many cases that were called polio were not confirmed ever. Nowadays we STILL have diseases that mimic polio, they just have fancy names like acute flaccid paralysis and transverse myelitis and more.December 8, 2018 10:26 pm at 10:26 pm #1639516
Regarding Polio in India, grossly incorrect.
Vaccinations were below 60% until the government got involved, India is currently Polio free a direct result from vaccinations.
Not only are the facts incorrect, they actually prove the opposite.December 8, 2018 11:31 pm at 11:31 pm #1639542
polio had always been a normal gut bacteria.
Polio is a virus, not a bacterium.
In fact, polio has NOT been eradicated in India, the country that still has DDT in use, in spite of HUGE vaccination rate of polio-
Yes, it has.
it is said that children there receive more than a dozen polio vaccines.
Said by whom? Liars and kooks like Suzanne Humphries ?December 8, 2018 11:52 pm at 11:52 pm #1639567
Ok so polio went down in India. But polio like illnesses have been on the rise .December 8, 2018 11:59 pm at 11:59 pm #1639575☕ DaasYochid ☕Participant
Let’s hope they find a vaccine for themDecember 9, 2018 12:00 am at 12:00 am #1639572
Do anti-vaxxers refuse to immunize for polio, too?December 9, 2018 12:00 am at 12:00 am #1639573
Oh and Suzanne humphreys has a very interesting background… she was a standard run of the mill nephrologist working in a hospital getting a fat salary. She saw patient after patient have bad reactions to the typical flu shot given to hospital patients. Remember, vaccines are not tested for sick or pregnant- but they certainly give them the vaccines. Her patients (who probably had all kinds of kidney issues) would say, doctor, I was fine until that darn shot. This caused her to start looking into vaccines and reading up on the safety studies etc . To make a long story short, what she saw going on in the vaccine/medical industry so sickened her that she left her job, and became an anti vax investigator and spokesperson. Now she makes far less and gets destroyed by the medical establishment. Who would you trust, Suzanne or Paul profit, I mean Offit, who walked away with tens of millions from his rotavirus vaccine that he both created and voted to add to the childhood vaccine schedule.December 9, 2018 12:05 am at 12:05 am #1639584
Without even addressing your other points, incorrect statements mean lies, she lied and has an agenda.
Now before repeating additional statements, it would make sense to actually verify them.December 9, 2018 12:05 am at 12:05 am #1639585
Ok so polio went down in India.
Not “went down”. E L I M I N A T E D. Immediately after full immunization was achieved. And despite the use of DDT. Therefore Suzanne Humphrey’s bizarre hypothesis is completely exploded.
But polio like illnesses have been on the rise .
So what? Those are not polio. The polio virus is not present in those cases. There are many diseases we do not yet understand, and have no vaccine for. In the normal course of events some of them rise in incidence, while some decline. There is no dramatic rise or decline in polio-like illnesses.December 9, 2018 1:34 am at 1:34 am #1639590
Gee… if anti vaxers hate vaccines so much, maybe they would agree to give one or two or even three… but why would they choose to give one for a disease that hasn’t been seen in the US for about 30 years?December 9, 2018 1:38 am at 1:38 am #1639599
Suzanne Humphries didn’t just turn anti-vaxx, she renounced medicine altogether and became a homeopath. Which means any sane person would run far away from her. Ironically the whole basis of homeopathy is the (ridiculous) idea that you can cure diseases by giving the patient a very tiny (really non-existent) amount of the very thing that (allegedly) causes that disease. In other words, vaccination.
I’d bet, though, that she makes far more money today than she did as a real doctor.December 9, 2018 1:38 am at 1:38 am #1639601
Did you know that we don’t vaccinate for paralytic polio, only the milder forms that noone was afraid of?December 9, 2018 1:38 am at 1:38 am #1639602
2scents and Milhouse are clearly pushing an agenda, are you a pediatrician that get paid for vaccinating your patients?December 9, 2018 2:02 am at 2:02 am #1639624
sariray: “Gee… if anti vaxers hate vaccines so much, maybe they would agree to give one or two or even three… but why would they choose to give one for a disease that hasn’t been seen in the US for about 30 years?”
The reason it hasn’t been seen in decades is because of vaccinations. And herd immunity.December 9, 2018 8:11 am at 8:11 am #1639628
In 2003, when polio was endemic in India, 8,500 cases of AFP were recorded. So far in 2015, a year after India was declared polio free, there have been nearly 18,000 reported instances but none linked to polio.
(The Wall Street Journal)December 9, 2018 8:11 am at 8:11 am #1639665
Check out the below article explaining that polio was NOT eradicated from India
Polio Eradication Programme: A Failure
Economic and Political Weekly
Vol. 41, No. 43/44 (Nov. 4-10, 2006), pp. 4538-4540December 9, 2018 8:11 am at 8:11 am #1639670
“You may choose to look the other way, but you can never say again that you did not know.”
— William WilberforceDecember 9, 2018 8:11 am at 8:11 am #1639671Avi KParticipant
Yserbius, maybe it should be the opposite. Section 8 pushes up rents and housing prices (the voucher can also be used to purchase a home) by raising demand. Just out of curiosity, for what does the “S” in TANSTAAFS stand?December 9, 2018 8:21 am at 8:21 am #1639666
“2scents and Milhouse are clearly pushing an agenda, are you a pediatrician that get paid for vaccinating your patients?”
I cannot speak for others, but I prefer to base my position on facts and real science. When you or others oost nonsense and expect to get away with it, all I do is expose the truth. that in its own is an agenda.
Now of course, once you reach a point of not being able to validate the conspiracy you so strongly believe in, you just blame everyone of being involved.
If only your agenda would be to know the true facts you wouldn’t be so defensive, you would appreciate that lies and made up data is not something most people are ok with.December 9, 2018 8:22 am at 8:22 am #1639669
According to Dr. Bernard Greenberg, head of the Department of Biostatistics of the University of North Carolina School of Public Health:
In order to qualify for classification as paralytic poliomyelitis, the patient had to exhibit paralytic symptoms for at least 60 days after the onset of the disease. Prior to 1954, the patient had to exhibit paralytic symptoms for only 24 hours. Laboratory confirmation and the presence of residual paralysis were not required. After 1954, residual paralysis was determined 10 to 20 days and again 50 to 70 days after the onset of the disease. This change in definition meant that in 1955 we started reporting a new disease, namely, paralytic poliomyelitis with a longer lasting paralysis.
Under the new definition of polio, thousands of cases which would have previously been counted as polio would no longer be counted as polio. The change in the definition laid the groundwork for creating the impression that the Salk vaccine was effective.December 9, 2018 10:41 am at 10:41 am #1639794
are you a pediatrician that get paid for vaccinating your patients?
Pediatricians do not get paid much for vaccinations; they often lose money on them.December 9, 2018 10:41 am at 10:41 am #1639790
According to Dr. Bernard Greenberg, head of the Department of Biostatistics of the University of North Carolina School of Public Health:
Stop lying right there. Where is this supposed claim of his? When did he make it, and what exactly did he say, and how do you know? I am telling you he never said any such thing. If he said it he would have been lying, but there’s no evidence that he ever said it in the first place. The entire testimony appears to have been made up.December 9, 2018 10:41 am at 10:41 am #1639784
Yash Paul’s paper was published in 2006. His predictions proved very wrong. Contrary to his dismissal of the idea that previous eradication efforts had failed because large pockets of unvaccinated children continued to carry the virus, that proved to be exactly the case. By concentrating on Uttar Pradesh, Bihar, and the routes migrant workers took to and from those states, polio was completely eradicated from India by 2011.
Yes, the oral vaccine does cause some cases of polio, but far fewer than it prevents, so as long as the wild virus is prevalent it must be used; once it has been completely eradicated from a region it becomes time to switch to a less effective but safer vaccine, which has now been done, just as it has in the US and Europe. Nobody here gets the oral vaccine any more, but if we hadn’t been given it when we were kids polio would still be ravaging us.
And yes, unexplained polio-like illnesses do seem to be on the rise at the moment. They are not polio; they test negative for the polio virus. Once we figure out what they are we will develop vaccines for them too. Meanwhile there is no evidence at all that the polio vaccine has anything to do with them. It’s just wild speculation by irresponsible people.December 9, 2018 10:41 am at 10:41 am #1639765
@AviK Supper, of course! All meals are equal in my eyes.
My point is that there are things that society benefits from as a whole, even if you don’t see the benefits directly. Federal subsidies for people that can afford basic living expenses is one. Vaccinations are another.December 9, 2018 11:36 am at 11:36 am #1639847HealthParticipant
sariray -“Gee… if anti vaxers hate vaccines so much, maybe they would agree to give one or two or even three… but why would they choose to give one for a disease that hasn’t been seen in the US for about 30 years?”
Another Anti-vaxxer LIE!
There’s still a chance to pick up Polio in the US.
From the CDC:
“Polio has been eliminated from the United States thanks to widespread polio vaccination in this country. This means that there is no year-round transmission of poliovirus in the United States. Since 1979, no cases of polio have originated in the United States. However, the virus has been brought into the country by travelers with polio. The last time this happened was in 1993. It takes only one traveler with polio to bring the disease into the United States. The best way to keep the United States polio-free is to maintain high immunity (protection) in the population against polio through vaccination.”December 9, 2018 11:39 am at 11:39 am #1639843
The truth about Bernard Greenberg can be found by searching for “thomas w kavanagh” and “bernard greenberg”.
Bottom line: Greenberg (not a medical doctor) never testified before Congress, but at a conference in 1960 (before the Sabin vaccine) he pointed out that the statistics on the Salk vaccine’s effectiveness were not clear, so we would have to wait and see whether the decline continued or was just a statistical artifact, and also we should look for a better vaccine. Both of these things happened. The Sabin vaccine replaced the Salk, and the decline in polio continued dramatically, until polio was completely eradicated, thus proving that it was not due to the redefinition in the mid-’50s.
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