High school diplomas

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  • #619166
    jhonny appleseed
    Participant

    Do you need your high school diploma in life if you’re not going to seminary or college or any majorly official job? i’m trying to decide if i should make up all my failed tests from 9th and 10th grade and all my failed midterms from this year or is there no point if i’m not getting my high school diploma anyways!

    Please note: i didn’t write in texting language today for all those who had a problem deciphering it!

    (It took a lot of self control!)

    #1214825
    ☕ DaasYochid ☕
    Participant

    You should get your high school diploma for several reasons, not the least of which is that you really don’t know if you will end up “going to seminary or college or any majorly official job”.

    #1214826
    Joseph
    Participant

    High school is totally overrated. A nice Yiddish housewife needs to know how to cook, bake, say Tehilim and daven. All totally doable without a diploma.

    #1214827
    Meno
    Participant

    A lot of jobs that aren’t “majorly official” will still require you to have a high school diploma

    #1214828
    CTLAWYER
    Participant

    Someday your children may have to fill out forms that ask for their parents’ levels of education. It may embarrass them to write that momma was a high school dropout.

    Never mind, how potential machatunim might view this when considering your child in a shidduch. I would not think a family valued education highly if a 21st century parent didn’t at least have a high school diploma.

    Yes, this is judgmental, but I’m being a realist.

    You will not regret finishing your work and getting a diploma.

    #1214829
    Lightbrite
    Participant

    Get your diploma girlfriend.

    #1214830
    akuperma
    Participant

    Many jobs require either a high school diploma or a GED. It is fairly easy to pass a GED.

    #1214832
    Lightbrite
    Participant

    Here’s a story about being in the wrong school from the Jewish Press —btw, please still try to switch schools if you can talk to your parents and the social worker.

    I occasionally had pangs of guilty conscience for not being more proactive and strong enough to get her into the school she had wanted from the beginning, but she settled in and made friends quickly enough and the first year was almost forgotten.

    As we ate our delicious Shabbos dessert, among the singing of zemiros and the divrei Torah, I turned to Leah and wondered out loud:

    #1214833
    rebshidduch
    Participant

    Do not drop out of school I just read your post about your life story and you would most likely regret the decision. You will not be able to do anything with your life. Ask your teachers what you can do to make up for your bad grades. Set off on a positive foot not negative foot. Work harder in school make new friends look at everything that you will miss looking back in another 3 years. Look at all those chumash, navi, parsha, ivrit, etc wonderful classes that you will never be able to get again.

    #1214834
    jhonny appleseed
    Participant

    CTlawyer: if someone doesn’t want me because i’m not smart enough, i don’t want them either!

    #1214835
    tobs
    Participant

    oh wow! that’s really amazing lb! I’m having chills right now

    #1214836
    baisyaakovliberal
    Participant

    In my opinion, since you’re still a teenager, you don’t know what you may decide to do in the future. Even if you’re absolutely sure you don’t want to go to college, seminary, or get a job requiring a high school diploma (which most jobs do, by the way), you still may need one out of necessity (that is, unless you come from an extremely wealthy family and have guaranteed financial support. Even then, money is easily lost.)

    That being said, I know how difficult the work load is in bais yaakov schools, and if you think it’s too much, perhaps you could take a GED test. I know someone that took one, and it’s not nearly as hard as high school.

    Good job with the non-text language 🙂 I’m a teenage girl and had a difficult time deciphering it in your previous posts lol.

    Good luck!

    #1214837
    ☕ DaasYochid ☕
    Participant

    if someone doesn’t want me because i’m not smart enough, i don’t want them either!

    What if someone didn’t want you because you were too smart?

    #1214838
    rebshidduch
    Participant

    I agree with you, jhonny. But, education is for your own good not for others. It does not matter if your a doctor and your husband is a nurse. What matters is you, not others, when it comes to education.

    #1214839
    rebshidduch
    Participant

    Also, baisyaakovliberal, jhonny will have the ability to go onto college with a GED. Without a high school education, there is not much she can do like how you said. There are many people who leave high school and go to college with a GED because of similar reasons to jhonny and they do very well there.

    #1214840
    jhonny appleseed
    Participant

    If someone doesn’t want me for any strengths or weaknesses, i don’t want them either!

    Also i don’t think any of the type of jobs that i want would really require a diploma anyway!

    #1214841
    ☕ DaasYochid ☕
    Participant

    So you want someone who doesn’t care who they marry?

    #1214842
    baisyaakovliberal
    Participant

    rebshidduch: I’m in total agreement with you about the GED. Pardon me if I presented it as something ‘lesser’. All I was saying is that a GED is a good alternative to making up years of work, which would likely be more difficult.

    #1214843
    Lightbrite
    Participant

    <3 Ultimately you do what’s good and right for you.

    I am telling you to stay in high school because I was there, praying to get out, telling myself that I was done and cannot take anymore. It was a living death.

    Today, I am so grateful for being in school. My last two year’s grades reflected my sadness. However, getting through that taught me that I can endure a lot.

    Looking back at it now, I am so so glad that I stayed in school.

    I made it through by enjoying art class. It really helped to look forward to something, something that I couldn’t have done had I stayed home or taken the GED.

    Do what’s best for you. We are here trying to give you perspective, as people who have been through it and see what it means in the long run.

    However, I don’t know your neshamah. I cannot tell you what is right for you.

    Sending you love always <3

    #1214844
    rebshidduch
    Participant

    I think, Daas Yochid, johnny meant that she does not want someone who does not want her for who she is as a person and that is okay because I am the same way. I want a kollel boy who is looking for a girl like me, not like he wants me to fit a certain mold and if I do not fit it, he does not want me.

    #1214845
    rebshidduch
    Participant

    Jhonny, even tho the jobs may not require a high school diploma, the diploma is for your own good. Everyone needs an education, you want to be on the same playing field as others and not below their level.

    #1214846
    baisyaakovliberal
    Participant

    DaasYochid: I don’t think ja is saying she wants someone who doesn’t care who they marry. I believe she’s trying to say that this is not an important factor for her, and if it is a deal breaker for a prospective match, she’s not interested.

    However, she should be aware that it can put up some red flags in terms of work ethic and intelligence for shidduchim. That is, even if you aren’t lacking in the aforementioned qualities, the lack of a high school diploma can have a negative connotation to many people.

    “Also i don’t think any of the type of jobs that i want would really require a diploma anyway!” – that’s good but many times people get jobs they don’t want for monetary reasons. You may regret closing that option for yourself.

    #1214847
    Lightbrite
    Participant

    Does Joseph really believe and mean what he says?

    #1214848
    ☕ DaasYochid ☕
    Participant

    I think, Daas Yochid, johnny meant that she does not want someone who does not want her for who she is as a person and that is okay

    Education and knowledge are part of what makes someone who they are.

    #1214849
    ☕ DaasYochid ☕
    Participant

    DaasYochid: I don’t think ja is saying she wants someone who doesn’t care who they marry. I believe she’s trying to say that this is not an important factor for her, and if it is a deal breaker for a prospective match, she’s not interested.

    She’s trying to make an ideal out if it, but it’s just a cop out. If she would get her diploma, she would have no problem marrying someone she want someone with a diploma.

    #1214850
    CTLAWYER
    Participant

    Jhonny………………

    You are sounding like a defiant teen. Nowhere in my post did I talk about someone not wanting YOU.

    I spoke about the repercussions that might be felt by your children in the future.

    In shidduchim, the parents’ backgrounds are often as important as those of the boy/girl. The boy/girl is young and unproven, the parents are grown and have a track record that is open to examination.

    This is just a reality check, not finding fault with you and your present state.

    #1214851
    Joseph
    Participant

    Who ever asks for a potential shidduch’s mother’s high school diploma?! Never heard that one before. It would be quite unusual to even ask for a copy of the girl herself’s high school diploma or for the boy to call the girl’s beis yaakov to check if she got a diploma.

    #1214852
    Lilmod Ulelamaid
    Participant

    DY – I think that her point is that she is unsure if she will be able to get her diploma no matter how hard she tries. And if it really is something that she can’t do then she should not feel bad if someone doesn’t want to marry her because she is not someone whom she’s not.

    As a general rule, it is not a good idea to make life decisions based on shidduchim. If something is right for you, then the guy you are meant to marry will want someone who did/didn’t do that thing.

    JA’s decision must be based on what’s best for her period!!! I also don’t think she should even be worrying TOO much about future ramifications in terms of seminaries,colleges, and jobs. That is too much pressure right now.

    JA is faced with a tremendous challenge right now – making up all of those midterms is going to take a lot. The first question is if it’s something she can do or not. Since she failed them the first time, why would she necessarily pass them the second time? Unless she failed because she didn’t put enough effort into it and she can put in that effort now. But if that’s not the case and she is just going to fail the second time anyhow, why does she need the pressure of feeling like she has to something that she can’t do anyhow, and that her whole life is ruined?

    I think that getting a GED (as Akuperma and RebShidduch suggested) may be a very good idea if getting a high school diploma is really not a realistic option for you, JA.

    But I don’t think you should discard the idea of getting a regular high school diploma too fast. If it’s something that really is a possibility, something that will take effort but something that is possible, then it’s a good idea for one reason only – you will feel really good about your accomplishment, and the commitment and effort and unwillingness to give up will serve you in good stead in the future and make it easier for you to stick to things in the future, whatever your future may hold, even if it’s being a Yiddishe Mama who spends all her time cooking and baking.

    The first thing you need to figure out is if and how you can go about accomplishing this. I think you need to do the following:

    1. See if you can figure out why you failed these tests in the first place

    2. Figure out what can be done differently this time that would enable you to pass (this could involve your doing something different or a change or modification in the test itself).

    3. Ask your social worker what she thinks you should do.

    4. Speak to your principal or mechaneches. Tell her exactly what tests you failed and why. Tell her that you really want to get a high school diploma and ask her how she thinks you should go about it. Ask her if there is anything she can do to help you to pass.

    5. If after discussing it with your social worker and pricipal/mechaneches, and thinking it through carefully, you decide it’s not realistic, go for the GED.

    #1214853
    Lilmod Ulelamaid
    Participant

    “Jhonny………………You are sounding like a defiant teen. Nowhere in my post did I talk about someone not wanting YOU.”

    She’s not a defiant teen. She’s going through a really rough time, if you’ve seen her previous threads. In terms of this specific issue, see my post above.

    In general, she needs all our sensitivity right now, and for us to lay low on the criticism. She is going through a hard enough time as it is, and I don’t think we even know a tenth of it. It’s really rough being a teenager nowadays.

    This last point is meant for everyone.

    Thank you in advance for understanding.

    #1214855
    Shopping613 🌠
    Participant

    jhonny I am proud you are writing in proper in english. It’s an improvement! When I started out here, younger than you- I did the same thing…..and it REALLY annoyed people. Anyway high school isn’t so bad….seminary is a lot better, there’s an end.

    BYL I agree with you. Have you figured out what seminary you want to go to?

    #1214856
    ProudMom2
    Participant

    My son’s high school career was not smooth sailing. He changes yeshivas a few times and finished school at the end of 11th grade. We strongly encouraged him to get his GED – he did – passed no problem. He went to Israel for a year and upon his return decided to go to college. He just graduated cum laude with a degree in biotech- and is now doing his Masters. I think if he did not have the GED as his first step he may not have decided to get if after being out of school so long. I urge you to get a GED — on never knows what the future has in store for you. I also work in a home health agency and we do not hire ( not my rules) any direct care workers unless they have a GED and this is for minimal entry level jobs. Hatzlacha

    #1214857
    CTLAWYER
    Participant

    Joseph…..

    No, one would not ask for the potential machatenester’s HS Diploma. You might ask the potential SIL/DIL where did your parents graduate?

    Should the potential SIL/DIL have to dance around and reply: mom attended XYZ High School, as opposed to a truthful ‘mom didn’t graduate high school.’

    May not seem important yo you, but mothers often help children with homework and I would want the mother of my grandchildren to be able to help with work though high school.

    In our family’s case it is doubtful that our children/grandchildren would even have a first meeting with a potential mate whose parents did not have advanced degrees, never mind college and high school; but us being professionals who are part of the Hareidi world is not the norm.

    #1214858
    Joseph
    Participant

    I cannot imagine anyone even thinking of asking whether the potential machatenester (or the girl herself, for that matter) got a high school diploma. It wouldn’t cross one’s mind. And if asked, probably no one but the machatenester herself would even know she didn’t get a diploma.

    #1214859
    CTLAWYER
    Participant

    Joseph……………

    Any student filling out a FAFSA form for school loans, Pell Grants, etc. is met with questions such as each parents level of education and degrees earned.

    #1214860
    Joseph
    Participant

    I’m pretty sure the FAFSA is only asking that for survey purposes. Getting it wrong wouldn’t affect the application, and most kids knowing mommy went to beis yaakov (but no college) will simply check off high school grad without thinking twice.

    #1214861
    iacisrmma
    Participant

    CTLAWYER: you wrote “You are sounding like a defiant teen.” This has been part of my retorts in each topic she posts.

    Joesph: you asked “Who ever asks for a potential shidduch’s mother’s high school diploma?!”.

    I know it will surprise you but their are people out there who ask these absurd questions.

    ****************

    “And if asked, probably no one but the machatenester herself would even know she didn’t get a diploma.”

    Her BIL/SIl who came into the family while she was still in high school will know this fact.

    ****************

    “I’m pretty sure the FAFSA is only asking that for survey purposes.”

    Due to a “huge” mistake by my son’s school, almost all of their students had to verify information on the FAFSA. That included providing written proof of the responses.

    #1214862
    CTLAWYER
    Participant

    Joseph………….

    Getting it wrong is falsifying a loan document.

    Attorneys can’t condone this.

    #1214864
    👑RebYidd23
    Participant

    They can condone anything. It’s their job.

    #1214865
    CTLAWYER
    Participant

    RebYidd23…………..

    NO..it is not an attorney’s job to condone anything and everything.

    We are ‘officers of the court’ and are not permitted to put on the stand a witness we know will not be telling the truth.

    In fact if a client insists on testifying and we know that he/she will be committing perjury, we MUST meet with the judge in chambers and reveal that we have told the client not to testify falsely and that the testimony is being given over our objections.

    BTW….here in CT a couple of years ago there was a Hareidi Attorney/Pulpit Rabbi who lost his law license and was fined hundreds of thousands of dollars for processing fraudulent loan documents. He didn’t commit the fraud, but he certified them to be true.

    #1214866
    Joseph
    Participant

    CTL, wouldn’t telling the judge your client is lying on the stand be disservicing what your client is paying you for? If a lawyer in mid-trial becomes 100% aware his client is guilty of the murder his client is charged with, he must tell the judge his client’s testimony on the stand claiming innocence was untrue?

    #1214867
    Lightbrite
    Participant

    CTLAWYER: If a client’s testimony is a lie and his/her lawyer is aware, then is it better for him/her to go to trial by jury, if possible, then just have the judge decide —since at least maybe the jury will be fooled?

    #1214868
    rebshidduch
    Participant

    In law I am pretty sure no matter what you need to be on the side of your client, right CTlawyer?

    #1214869
    CTLAWYER
    Participant

    Joseph,

    An attorney must advocate for the best interests of his/her client.

    Again, as I have repeatedly said: I do not do criminal work.

    That said, a good attorney will NEVER ask his client accused of murder if he/she committed the act.

    There is NO requirement that a defendant ever take the stand as a defense witness (and they are not generally called by the prosecution).

    If a defendant, who the attorney knows will testify falsely (under oath) insists on taking the stand against the attorney’s advice, the attorney is required by the Ethics rules to inform the judge in advance of the testimony.

    The client’s plea of guilty/not guilty at arraignment is NOT testimony under oath and the attorney has no obligation, in fact would be prohibited, to informing the arraignment judge that the accused is lying.

    An arraignment is not the trial and the person on the bench setting bail or denying it is not the trier of fact in the criminal case.

    Even if the defendant’s attorney knows the defendant has committed the crime, the attorney is obligated to provide the best defense possible for the client without violating the rules of ethics or suborning perjury. This generally means that all rules have been followed by the prosecution, evidence presented is proper and that all experts are qualified and their testimony cannot not be broken for accuracy. This can not only make a difference as to the outcome of the trial, but appeals, length of sentence, amounts of fines, etc.

    Ever since Gideon v. Wainwright every criminal defendant in America is entitled to legal counsel. Hopefully this will not be destroyed by the new administration and his appointee(s) to the Supreme Court. I am not hopeful that this protection will last.

    #1214870
    Lightbrite
    Participant

    Wow. I didn’t even think that it was up for question.

    Really? They can take away one’s right to a free public defender?

    Please no.

    #1214871
    rebshidduch
    Participant

    How did this go from talking about high school drop outs to lawyers? Can we stick to the topic?

    #1214872
    WinnieThePooh
    Participant

    Johnny, there are 3 options right now in front of you:

    1. switch schools to a place where you will be happy. You have tried to make this happen, but ultimately the decision depends on other people and is beyond your control.

    2. You can drop out. But what will you do instead?

    3. You can stick it out. But you do not have to be miserable. One very important thing that you have learned is that we cannot control our environments or what happens around us. This is not only true for HS, but also for the adult real world- whether it is a bad job with a mean, demanding boss or a less than perfect marriage, etc. many times we will find ourselves in miserable circumstances that we cannot change. what we can though control is our attitudes. We all need to find the key to happiness within ourselves, no matter what is going on in life. You have shown tremendous strength by reaching out here for help, so we know that you have it in you. You changed your style of writing here which shows sensitivity to others. Try to find the positive in yourself and your circumstances. discover your talents and develop them. When you feel good about yourself, and are happy, and show a positive attitude, then others will feel good about you too. You can do this for yourself- don’t wait for your teachers or parents or friends to make your life good for you, make it good for yourself.

    #1214873
    Lilmod Ulelamaid
    Participant

    I strongly recommend that everyone who posted here read Shimon Russell’s article in this past week’s Mishpacha.

    #1214874
    Lilmod Ulelamaid
    Participant

    I also suggest that everyone who is writing JA off as a defiant teen reread JA’s op carefully. She writes that she is trying to decide if she should put in the effort to make up all her failed tests since she will not get her diploma anyhow.

    #1214875
    Lilmod Ulelamaid
    Participant

    Joesph: you asked “Who ever asks for a potential shidduch’s mother’s high school diploma?!”.

    Iacisrmma: “I know it will surprise you but their are people out there who ask these absurd questions.”

    I didn’t get my high school diploma until 17 years after I finished high school. NO ONE ever asked me if I had a high school diploma. Not shadchanim, not employers, not the seminary/college I went to, not the heads of any seminary programs I taught in.

    I failed dikduk and Safah the last semester of high school, and the makeup test was after the day I was making aliyah and my school wouldn’t let me take it earlier so I had no way to take it. (and yes, the irony of failing dikduk and safah right before I made aliyah did not escape me :))

    So I always assumed that I didn’t have a high school diploma because of that. I wasn’t sure if you actually need dikduk and safah for a high school diploma, but meanwhile, I was in EY and had no way to find out, and I never needed it anyhow. No one ever asked me if I had one because they just assumed I did.

    When I came back to the US 17 years later, I needed a high school diploma for id purposes (to transfer my old driver’s license), so I called my high school, and asked if they had it. They were like, “We don’t have copies of diplomas.” So I said, “not a copy. I never got the original.”

    They thought I was nuts asking for a diploma from 17 years before, but they checked, and lo and behold, it was there!!!

    Apparently, I had graduated after all and never knew it! Apparently, you don’t need dikduk and safah in order to graduate high school.

    When my diploma arrived with my principal a”h’s signature on it, and my friend saw it, she was very confused. “Isn’t_______ dead?” So I said, “now she is, but she wasn’t when she signed this 17 years ago!”.

    #1214876
    yehudayona
    Participant

    In response to those claiming it’s easy to get a GED, be aware that the process changed a few years ago, at least in New York. Most other states apparently still offer the GED. NY uses TASC, and the tests are supposed to be harder. Here’s a quote from the NYS Education Department’s website:

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