Hilchos Tisha bAv & Tisha bAv Shechal Lehiyos BeShabbos

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    SayIDidIt™
    Participant

    PLEASE NOTE: This article was copied from YWN Home Page (Link). I (SayIDidIt™/SiDi™) take no resposobility for the accuracy of any information. As always, one should not Pasken fron any online forum. If you have a Shaila, always ask a Rav.


    (Friday, July 27th, 2012)

    (1) It is best to at least try to take a short shower, and to minimize any unnecessary time in the shower.

    3) On Shabbos one does not have a special Seudas Mafsekes. One may eat meat and drink wine until the fast. However one must start the fast at Shkia) This means that at Shkia even though it is Shabbos one must stop eating.

    4) We continue to wear our shoes until Barechu is said)

    b) The Shliach Tzibur takes off his shoes before Barichu. It is important that he should say Baruch Hamavdil before taking off his shoes.

    c) Once we remove our shoes we sit on the ground (or on a low stool).

    a) The Baalei bris do not have to make up the fast.

    a) One should still ideally refrain from eating meat or drinking wine until Monday daytime)

    8. This Shabbos is the same as Shabbos Chazon. Whatever Minhagim a person or a community has for Shabbos Chazon are observed on this Shabbos.

    Erev Tisha BeAv:

    1) Starting on Erev Tisha BeAv from Chatzos on, there is a Minhag not to learn anything which is Assur to learn on Tisha BeAv itself (see Section on forbidden activities and practices on Tisha BeAv).

    a) This should not come at the expense of not learning altogether. If a person will either do nothing with their time or learn regularly it is better to learn regularly.

    2) On Erev Tisha BeAv it is accepted amongst all of Klal-Yisroel not to eat meat or drink wine (unless Erev Tisha BeAv is Shabbos).

    a) If one makes a seudas Mitzva one may have meat (there is some disagreement as to whether one may drink wine).

    b) For the Seudas Mafsekes, meat should NOT be eaten under any circumstances (other than when it is Shabbos).

    c) The basic Minhag is to eat just bread (without even dipping it in salt) and water at the Seudas Mafsekes. The Seudas Mafsekes is eaten on the ground) As it is not intended for social gathering or for socializing, it should also be eaten alone) When there are a number of people in the same house they should eat it separately, each one on his own (i.e) not sitting in a circle together or the like). While it is preferable to refrain from all socializing, one must make sure not to eat as three or more people together as this would obligate the men involved in a Zimun.

    i) There are those that are accustomed to eat a boiled egg dipped in Ash as the Vilna Gaon states, maintaining that the last meal needs to be as simple as possible) See Maaseh Rav).

    ii) There are those who dip their bread in ash.

    3) Erev Tisha BeAv there is an issur on all the things that we are Noheg not to do during the nine-days and/or the week of Tisha BeAv (i.e.) we do not wash our bodies, do laundry etc))

    Fasting Tisha BeAv:

    a) Although they are customary they are Minhag Yisroel (Minhag Yisroel is deemed to have the strength of Halacha) and thus all Jewish adults must fast.

    i) The general rule that one who is not fasting needs to make up the fast on some other day does not apply to a pregnant woman or nursing mother.

    c) On Tisha BeAv even pregnant women and nursing mothers should try to fast as long as they can (as they are not patur from fasting as there is a Rabbinic obligation to fast). It is only when they feel weak andthat there is a necessity to drink, that they should break their fast. Once they have broken their fast there is no reason for them to minimize their eating.

    i) Although there is no reason to minimize the volume of food they are to consume they still should refrain from eating delicacies and various other luxury foods.

    ii) After they have tried to fast the Minhag is that they need not make up the fast.

    d) People who are sick or very weak on Tisha BeAv have the same din as on any other Taanis.

    i) If they would like to continue fasting and they know it poses no real danger to their personal well being then they may. However one must bear in mind that, should they stop fasting, they will need to make up this fast another time)

    (1) Although when they make up the fast at another point in time they need to fast for a 24hr + period of time, they do not need to perform the other stringencies of Tisha BeAv such as not washing, not wearing leather shoes etc)

    ii) If they have already fasted past Chatzos then they do not need to make up the fast at a future point in time)

    (1) If a person broke their fast before Chatzos and on the makeup fast they fast until Chatzos and then break it they were Yotzei and do not need to make it up again.

    e) People who unfortunately suffer from an eating disorder should not fast on Tisha BeAv. If they wish to fast they should consult with both their professional guidance (i.e) therapist, dietician etc)) and their Rov.

    a) It is hard to give an exact age for the above: much depends on the child) From age nine and up there are many that are Noheg that children should fast until Chatzos.

    i) If they are having a difficult time fasting they should break their fast.

    b) The Minhag is that the year before Bar/Bas Mitzva children should attempt to fast the entire fast.

    i) Obviously, if they are having a difficult time with fasting they should break their fast.

    (1) They have no obligation to make up the fast.

    Smachos on Tisha BeAv:

    1) The father making a bris as well as the Sandek and Mohel put on Shabbos clothing.

    a) They are not permitted to eat on Tisha BeAv and the meal is made in the evening following.

    2) It is permissible to get engaged on Tisha BeAv.

    a) The Chosson and Kalah should refrain from wearing Shabbos clothing unless they risk the shidduch by not looking sufficiently presentable without wearing Shabbos garb)

    b) Nowadays, since there is in any case a general an unofficial understanding before the official engagement takes place, it is preferable to wait to make any official engagement until after Tisha BeAv.

    i) If there is any reason that it is felt better to make an official engagement on Tisha BeAv (even with Tenaim) there is no problem and it can therefore be done)

    Other things we refrain from on Tisha BeAv:

    1) On Tisha BeAv it is forbidden to bathe, anoint our bodies, to wear leather shoes, and to have intimate relations. Furthermore Chazal also forbade regular Torah study, to the point that they even forbade the Torah study of minors.

    b) One still must wash their hands in the normal ritual manner in the morning and before Tefilla as well. However one must be careful to wash only until the knuckles.

    d) It is permissible to wash dirt from any part of the body. This should be done in the most minimal way possible)

    2) Anointing oneself is only forbidden when it is done for pleasure; therefore if someone is dressing a cut or putting cream onto damaged skin there is no problem.

    3) The prohibition of wearing shoes applies only to leather shoes. All other shoes may be worn.

    b) When necessary, it is permitted to wear even leather shoes:

    ii) If somebody needs to be amongst Goyim (and I stress non-Jews, not non-religious Jews) and it would look strange for them not to be wearing leather shoes, then it is permissible for them as well to wear leather shoes. Should they own synthetic shoes, however, it is preferable to wear those) (There is no obligation to buy such shoes).

    iii) There are those that are noheg to fill their shoes with sand that if they need to wear leather shoes at work.

    a) There are those who are makpid to sleep with a candle or light in the room on Tisha BeAv.

    a) It is permissible to learn the rebuke that the Neviim gave to Klal-Yisroel such as those of Yeshayahu and Yermiyahu. It is also permissible to learn Iyov, and Eicha) Medrash Eicha and the various Agadata gemoros that deal with the Churban Beis Hamikdash are also permissible) Hilchos Tisha BeAv is also ok to learn.

    i) Traditionally children are taught the agadata Gemoros and the like dealing with the Churban.

    Other activities that are forbidden on Tisha BeAv:

    i) Sitting on a step that is less than three tefachim high is a better option than sitting on a stool as a step can definitely be halachikly considered akin to the floor.

    ii) As sitting on the floor is only a Minhag, and if someone has some sort of condition that makes it difficult for him to sit even on a low stool it is ok for that person to sit on a regular chair.

    b) There are those who are Noheg not to sleep on a bed Tisha BeAv (until after Chatzos HaYom, See section mourning the Churban pertaining to sleeping Tisha BeAv day).

    i) The common Minhag is to sleep on a bed but to sleep slightly less comfortably (by, for example, using less or no pillows).

    i) Should the gentile ask how you are doing, you should then inquire in turn.

    b) If a less knowledgeable Jew says hello one should reply, but in the briefest and quietest manner possible)

    Working and doing odds and ends on Tisha BeAv:

    a) Chazal say that everywhere a Davar Haaveid (something that will cause a loss of money) is permissible) Partial loss of salary for missing work is considered by some authorities as Davar Haaveid) Hence one would be allowed to work in order to avoid such loss. However as most of us can probably take Tisha BeAv as a vacation or sick day, and such days are not a Davar Haaveid) In such a situation one should rather make Tisha BeAv an off day.

    b) As the Ramah writes that the minhag Ashkenaz was not to work before Chatzos HaYom one should definitely try to put off work until at least after Chatzos.

    3) Working purely to earn income is Assur according to all.

    2) Preparations of foods and other such arrangements for after the fast should wait until after Chatzos HaYom.

    If the only way to prepare something is by starting before Chatzos, one may then do so.

    Taalis and tefillin:

    1) Taalis and Tefilin are not put on before Chatzos.

    a) We do put on the talis katan in the morning, but without the bracha) Later, when we do put on the Talis Gadol and make a bracha on it we have in mind the Talis Katan.

    Focusing on Mourning the Churban:

    The following points are Halachos and Hanhagos designed specifically to help us focus on the Churban:

    a) A person definitely should refrain from shopping on Tisha BeAv.

    i) If it is for food for after the fast or the like it is preferable to put it off until after Chatzos.

    c) Since many people do not work on Tisha BeAv, it is important to be especially careful that the day not become an excuse for social gatherings. We must be extra careful not to talk Dvarim assurim, as the purpose of the fast is to focus on doing Teshuva for our wrongdoings that caused the destruction. Engaging in such forbidden activities allows the destruction to continue to be)

    d) Singing songs on Tisha BeAv that are not related to the Churban, and that are not in tunes appropriate to the day is Assur.

    a) While it may be difficult not to sleep all day Tisha BeAv it is definitely advisable not to sleep before Chatzos.

    Motzai Tisha BeAv:

    a) While this whole night and half day aveilus is more Kal than the rest of the nine days, the night following Tisha BeAv is more Chamur than the next day before Chatzos. Therefore if issues arise that would require doing one of the forbidden acts one is more likely to be allowed accordingly (and one should ask their Rov).

    #887882
    SayIDidIt™
    Participant

    (Wish I can edit…

    SiDi™)

    #887883
    Sam2
    Participant

    I think there is a major error in the first 3a, unless I am very much mistaken( which is always possible). I was sure that one may not be with his wife on Shabbos because it’s really Tishah B’av and therefore D’varim Sheb’tzina would be Noheg.

    Also, about the whole learning on Erev Tishah B’av thing. It’s a Machlokes Haposkim and not such a prevalent Minhag. I’m not sure why the author treated it almost as a given Halachah for everyone. Therefore, his reason for not having meat at a Siyum after Chatzos shouldn’t be relevant to the majority of people. However, one should never make a Siyum on a Friday afternoon after Chatzos because one shouldn’t have a festive meal on Friday afternoons that one wouldn’t normally have as it’s considered a lack of Kavod Shabbos.

    #887884
    Sam2
    Participant

    I believe there is another major error in “other things we refrain from” 1e. He says uses a baby wipe isn’t considered washing. While this is true, most baby wipes contain some sort of soap/oil/lotion and thus would be absolutely Assur because it qualifies as anointing. A damp washcloth from just water, however, is completely permissible (so long as it’s not damp enough that your face or hands would actually be wet after touching it).

    #887885
    ☕️coffee addict
    Participant

    additionally

    motzei tisha bav you can do everything you couldnt during the three weeks b/c it’s he eleventh (look in the mishna brurah)

    #887886
    Sam2
    Participant

    CA: He mentions that in the beginning (except for eating meat).

    #887887
    fedup11210
    Member

    SAM2: You are correct that Davar B’Tzina is Noheig on Friday night unless it is Leil Tevilla.

    Another slight error is that he states “ideally one should not eat meat until Monday daytime”. Rabbi Shimon Eider TZATZAL states in his booklet that one is not allowed to eat meat or drink wine on Sunday night (except if you are making havdalla on wine).

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