October 23, 2022 11:12 pm at 11:12 pm #2131897
Whats stopping history/factual history from being completely changed/altered/erased/lost or manipulated especially in the digital age? As it is historical facts are twisted and altered to fit propaganda or specific narratives. But aside for books, the digital age can completely erase all of history and rewrite it. Can anyone simply deny history and point to “facts” online? If all books disappeared from the world, would a concept such as true history even exist anymore?October 24, 2022 12:01 am at 12:01 am #2131916HaLeiViParticipant
Major events of the recent centuries can’t be denied. Details can be fudged even for current events. The further you go back, obviously it get more and more blurry.October 24, 2022 12:02 am at 12:02 am #2131913ujmParticipant
The New York Times, Washington Post, CNN, NPR, CBS, NBC, ABC, AP, Reuters, and virtually all the rest of Big Media are Exhibit 1 in spreading false propaganda while calling it “news”.October 24, 2022 1:38 am at 1:38 am #2131929
indeed, anything online will be manipulated.
Keep your offline copies of Tanach and Britannica!
Even Jewish books would quote you Rashi and Rambam .. just the part that a particular author wants you to pay attention to … So, keep your Bromberg Gemora edition also.October 24, 2022 8:40 am at 8:40 am #2131945HaLeiViParticipant
Why the Bromberg? I’d go with the Munich edition.October 24, 2022 9:19 am at 9:19 am #2131992
The CDC had on their own website info about vaccine trial lengths in which they stated takes around 15 years before being released and approved. During COVID- the page was still available but upon clicking the link it said “site under maintenance”. Soon after the page was completely removed and led to error not found. Now it’s been completely removed and revised. It’s scary how information can be deleted like that as if it never existed and then changed to whatever anyone wants it to be changed to . It’s literally the 1984 method of collecting all known data and hard evidence and destroying it in order to create new historical narratives and new facts. With the technology around now they can easily do this
Same with the Palestinian issue. They claim a land that was never under their rule, they claim to be a nation, which never existed, and they claim they are the Cannaanites, the plishtim and just about anyone who Iived in Israel. Who can deny it in an age where historical facts are just manipulated and recreated?
You say major events can never be denied, well in our day an age they definitely can be. Even th Romans were ahead of their time in altering history just by the mere fact of changing the name of Israel to Palestina for the world to forget the Jewish connection to the land.
It seems that there is something to the whole book burnings throughout the years. It’s the only way to truly erase history. Although books can also be altered and redefined, but compared to online pages which can be altered or deleted in a single click, it’s much more solid of a resource than the illusion of online material. And let’s not get started on trusting the whole cloud system in storing your information and files. Talk about a hostage situation waiting to happen.October 24, 2022 9:21 am at 9:21 am #2131993
The greatness of Kabolas Hatotah, as explained by the Chinuch, is that everyone was there, it gets passed down from generation to generation and therefore cannot be denied. People who live through history attest to its truthfulness.October 24, 2022 9:21 am at 9:21 am #2131994
It is not just history but also my story and her story.October 24, 2022 9:21 am at 9:21 am #2131995
History is there also to learn from it and not repeat the same mistakes. Hitler ym’s did not learn from Napoleon’s defeat in Russia by being frozen out of Siberia.October 24, 2022 9:46 am at 9:46 am #2132008
Reb eliezer, nobody learns from history that’s why it’s often repeated in different forms. Also because of history manipulation, people tend to not believe or even know the real history so there is no way they can learn to avoid it.October 24, 2022 2:31 pm at 2:31 pm #2132099
Anyway, Hashem made Hitler ym’s not being able to learn.October 24, 2022 5:17 pm at 5:17 pm #2132112KuvultParticipant
There’s also the issue of “False memory” where a group drastically changes what really happened or creates a myth out of nowhere.
A famous one that was deeply entrenched in American-Jewish culture was “Jews changed their names at Ellis Island” upon investigation this was a myth that didn’t happen.October 24, 2022 6:11 pm at 6:11 pm #2132135yeshivahamsters22Participant
What stopped the “winners of history” to not give twisted and altered versions of history. Who is to say that our current understanding is completely objective? There is usually more than one source of primary information on historical/current events, and you need to compare and contrast the two in order to form an objective opinion.October 24, 2022 7:37 pm at 7:37 pm #2132146
RW > CDC had on their own website info about vaccine trial lengths in which they stated takes around 15 years before being released and approved. During COVID- the page was still available but upon clicking the link it said “site under maintenance”. Soon after the page was completely removed and led to error not found.
this is a great example of an attempt to rewrite history. See below. I think you would need to look up halochos on lashon hara to see how you need to compensate CDC for your post.
I googled for CDC vaccine trial lengths and my first click went to CDC page that had a link to a page on historyofvaccines org (that is an outside page) that has first paragraph: Vaccine development is a long, complex process, often lasting 10-15 years, and involves a combination of public and private involvement.
Before that, there is a note added in May 2022:
Many anti-vaccine people and organizations are not presenting the information in this article in full context. The article below mostly covers vaccines before the current COVID-19 pandemic. Please see the section on the COVID-19 pandemic and Operation Warp Speed for information on the COVID-19 vaccines.October 24, 2022 7:38 pm at 7:38 pm #2132147
> What stopped the “winners of history”
this is indeed what separates TaNach from the “historical” records that we find from the ancient kings who usually left records of only their victories. Nowadays, you can easily go back to sources of 100+ years old. Not just books and papers, but military records, marriage certificates, census records filled out and signed 100+ years ago are available. So many of “babe maisos” can be literally checked out by looking at grandma’s handwriting…October 24, 2022 7:41 pm at 7:41 pm #2132173
Kuvult, regardless of that many Jews in America did change their names for many reasons especially business. In Ellis Island im sure many names were changed by authorities whether by choice or not in order to be a bit more Americanized or for whatever other reasons such as mishearing or misreading certain names.October 24, 2022 9:33 pm at 9:33 pm #2132200KuvultParticipant
That’s what I’m explaining. It didn’t happen. There was a rare typo but no Americanization by officials. After, in America some Jews changed their names but not at Ellis island.
People think just a few years back people were idiots but I assure you they weren’t. Everyone getting on a boat to America had to present their paperwork to the shipping line where it was recorded exactly as the documents said. On arrival at Ellis island the officials took the ships record to use. There were 9 Yiddish speaking employees (not officials) whose sole job was to go up & down the line helping Jews be ready when it was their turn. There was no “mishearing” Between the Jews paperwork & the ships log 99.7% of Jews (& everyone else) walked out with the exact same name they had in Europe.October 24, 2022 10:43 pm at 10:43 pm #2132209
Ellis island records are online, including ship manifests. So, you can check them out. There are also later recordings of people who went through that. Most scary was medical test that could have sent you back heim. After that, the officers would ask your job – brick layer, accountant, gabbai and suggest where you should go to meet haverim. This is by the way what Jews did also. We used to have professional shuls – just for shoemakers – so that they could help each other professionally. One lady was mostly shocked (in a good way) that US had free high schools, something her family was desperately saviing money for back in Eastern Europe.October 25, 2022 1:17 am at 1:17 am #2132242
alwaysask, i googled it and could not find that page. Maybe they brought it back but it was taken down for a while during the vaccine Blitzkreig. Also there is a link about upcoming vaccines and info which leads to the WHO but then says page not found. I dont see the 10-15 years it just says vaccine licensing can take 10 years or more. Regardless, if they took down the info even temporarily to deceive people that is corruption. And if they are going against their own policies that vaccines take over 10 years thats also corruption. And whos to say they wont alter their policies? If they can hide the information at will nothing can stop them from putting out whatever info suits their agenda. Also historyofvacccines is not the CDCOctober 25, 2022 8:13 am at 8:13 am #2132260yungermanSParticipant
Everything that happens daily in the world is never a accident.
… cause we all know the truth that “THERE’S NO SUCH A THING AS COINCIDENCE” everything has a plan and reason directly from Hashem. Yes that’s Correct that Hitler Yemach shimam. Was Hashems direct messenger for the Holocaust R”L which we should have all woken up to Hashem wake up call for serious teshuva and achdus before the Holocaust happened….
So are righteous people and leaders Hashems messengers too. Each one with their own mission at the right time.October 25, 2022 9:40 am at 9:40 am #2132316
Bad people become messengers for bad things, so they get punished for their actions.October 26, 2022 2:49 am at 2:49 am #2132546Sam KleinParticipant
Every human being was given the gift of FREE WILL which makes 3ach person responsible for their righteousness and God forbid vice versa their wicked sins which every person is punished for Directly from Hashem and even if sent directly by Hashem to do a wicked act c”v a person is still punished for his sins due to the gift of FREE WILL.
May we all wake up already and do serious Teshuva and Achdus ASAP together as one loving nation so Hashem can send Mashiach already bkarov.
- You must be logged in to reply to this topic.