October 17, 2011 7:29 am at 7:29 am #599989
for those who have lost family members, significant others, or who have not yet found their significant other…
alone, yet commanded to experience joy,
is there accountability or does Hashem pardon?October 17, 2011 9:26 am at 9:26 am #823801yossi z.Member
Good question. I try to find distractions from such feelings and from there get to joy which doesn’t leave room for the feelings to come back. As long as I hold on the joy, I will usually be fine.
😀 Zuberman! 😀October 17, 2011 11:11 am at 11:11 am #823802happiestMember
am yisrael, first of all- I am so sorry that this time of year brings back sad memories for you. It must be so difficult! I do understand I think (even just a little bit) because a family member of mine passed away on chol hamoed Pesach a couple of years ago.
It feels liike it is a bittersweet time and atleast I feel this way that I have to put on a show for everyone that all is well and I am not struggling at all.
I have no idea about your question though, I just thought knowing that someone understands somewhat might make things a little easier or not easier but you might feel less alone.
A gut moed and again, I’m so sorry for your loss and hang in there!!October 17, 2011 1:48 pm at 1:48 pm #823803Wondering…Member
First of all Im so sorry that you are pain, missing someone & just not feeling the happiest, I really feel with you & hope Hashem sends you comfort soon.
I think there are different types of joy,- some which may be still possible for you to feel – the feeling of simcha of being Hashem’s Am Hanivchar, we have a purpose in life (look at the goyims lack of direction and purpose &how difficult their lives are), the simcha of being cleansed from YK and been given a new opportunity to serve Hashem with a clean slate, the joy of knowing that (especially when we are in the Succah) we are under Hashems protection… He has a plan for us, He knows what we are experiencing and He has a reason for it… if we really internalise these things I think it can give a person strength and hopefully some JOY 🙂
All the best to you, good luck 🙂October 17, 2011 8:11 pm at 8:11 pm #823804BaalHaboozeParticipant
AYC such a strong question, yet surely you are not the only one who have asked it. My feelings for you and I hope you are in good spirits. One reason why we say Yizkor on Yom Tov is precisely for that reason- to remember our loved ones who have passed on, and we “celebrate with them” if only for 2 or 3 minutes, not only in memory, but also spiritually(as their neshamos are right there next to us).October 17, 2011 9:54 pm at 9:54 pm #823805
Thanks for commiserating.
I’m not cheery at all. And saying yizkor doesn’t cheer me up either.
In fact, I’d asked a shaila at first why we even say yizkor during YO”T as it makes many feel sad, as evidenced by eye moisture…
I’d said yizkor a week after my significant one passed since the rav holds that one doesn’t wait the year (unless one would carry on in shul to the extent it would disturb others).
There’s no one here with whom to celebrateOctober 17, 2011 10:17 pm at 10:17 pm #823806bptParticipant
Ouch, AYC. For what its worth, I had a small dose of what you’re talking about this yom tov, so I know a small sample of the pain of being alone.
Hashem does not need to “forgive” in this case, as you were never in the wrong. Since you do not have the vehicle the rest of us have, your method of joy is different that it is for the rest of us.
Its a small consolation, but perhaps you can find someone in a similar situation, and bring some simchas you tov to them. And be’ezras Hashem, next year, may your situation will be more to your likeing, and enable you to be the baal simcha you want to be!October 18, 2011 1:22 am at 1:22 am #823807
AYC – there you go again, speaking my very thoughts. I spent Rosh Hashana trying not to cry (only 3 weeks after her petirah) but Sukkos was too much for me. My sister and I had been the only two left in the city since my parents recently died as well. Her passing left me feeling so lonely for them all. And the saddest part for me was having a birthday on Shabbos Chol Hamoed, when one of them would surely have brought me a ‘birthday pie’ as they always had. I couldn’t stop crying and I just kept wondering if Hashem was disappointed in me for not being b’simcha. I apologized, but I can’t say I repented because the tears did not stop. Your thoughts were my thoughts, is He really expecting any different from me right now? I was considering calling the Rav to ask him.October 18, 2011 3:51 am at 3:51 am #823808
I tried to express ‘simcha’ while I was crying by thanking Hashem for giving me such a wonderful relationship and the privilege of loving someone so much. And by thinking about the family I have now. But I think I was confusing gratitude and simcha. I’ll have to chalk it up to hishtadlus, I guess.October 18, 2011 5:03 am at 5:03 am #823809
I understand you. If you do ask the rav, please let us know.
I’m glad at least you were not dealing with the loss alone with the four walls…
And happy birthday to you! You’ve been gifted another year, and it’s truly a gift.October 18, 2011 2:28 pm at 2:28 pm #823810adorableParticipant
no words to comfort you but the fact that you feel so down about losing someone who was so close to you means that you must have had many years of happiness together. thank hashem for that.October 18, 2011 3:03 pm at 3:03 pm #823811BaalHaboozeParticipant
I could only imagine your pain in your hearts and loneliness you experience. It must be SO hard. I can not imagine spending Y”T by myself,let alone without being happy, as I am B”H surrounded by family. I wish I can invite you to my sukka, but I live OOT. Do you have ANY relatives to spend Y”T with??October 18, 2011 5:56 pm at 5:56 pm #823812matziv chapperMember
AYC – in the sefer Lekach Tov, in the volume Emuna Unechama, towards the end there is a story brought from r Chaim Vital zt”l that deals with such a scenario and can be comforting for someone in your situation.
Hamakom Yenachem Oischah
if you cant find it let me know and I’ll post the page number, someone told me they printed it in english but i am not aware of thatOctober 18, 2011 8:56 pm at 8:56 pm #823813yitayningwutParticipant
You are certainly not expected to feel giddy and joyful after such a loss. It is a mitzva to be proactive in trying to find ways to make yourself feel better. Yom Tov isn’t about faking happiness. It’s about making yourself happy. So if you know that crying is therapeutic, then cry (for the halachic basis for this – Rema OC 288, see Aruch Hashulchan). Read a book about dealing with loss. Drink some wine. Spend time with people who make you feel good. Again, there is no mitzva to put on a fake smile. Just to try to make yourself feel better. And while this is only an explicit mitzva on Yom Tov, it is a worthy attitude all year round.October 18, 2011 9:53 pm at 9:53 pm #823814
Thank you for your chizuk, yitayningwut. I hugged my kids alot and told them how lucky I was to love my sister so much even though we were so different, and even though it hurts so much to lose someone. I even told them that I wish for them to love each other so much as they get older. I was definitely happy to have them near me, but I couldn’t shake the sadness. And they are sad too, my sister lived down the street. So even though I was sad and lonely, I tried only to talk about gratitude and acceptance. And I bought birthday treats to pass out to them cuz I knew that making them happy helps make me happy. Another round of Yom Tov coming up. . . another chance to do it differently. AYC – wanna join us in our sukkah this round?October 18, 2011 10:47 pm at 10:47 pm #823815
adorable-thanks, I do thank Hashem for what I had, but it doesn’t make me feel joyous at present
BaalHabooze-thank you for your understanding.
Right now out of town sounds GREAT as I’d like to be far, far away from here, and no, I have no family here. Made a temporary place if ok with mods aycamyisrael on the gmail account for specifics, if you wish.May I ask where OOT? Don’t know how to get through the next few days isolated
matziv chapper-thank you for the vort; if you could post the link that prints it all online, Hebrew or English, that would be very helpful.
yitayningwut-thank you for the chizuk. If you could post the link that prints it all online, Hebrew or English, that would be very helpful.
SYAG- that’s so great that you were able to pull it together. This speaks to your courage and inner strength. Thank you for your offer, that’s extremely kind!y!
As far as spending time with people who make me feel good, they are busy with their own families. As much as I don’t like to ask for favors, I did mention that YO”T is difficult being alone but I’ve not been called much to join…
I’ve read books on the topic which vividly describe holiday time and birthdays, etc., as being particularly difficult and is normal to feel this way.
This still won’t change my nature to help others be”H, but it sure hurtsOctober 19, 2011 12:58 am at 12:58 am #823816TheGoqParticipant
Ayc i apologize for not responding to this thread earlier, first my condolonces on your loss may you know no more sorrow, having never been married i cant imagine what it must be like to lose someone so close to you , someone that is part of your very being, i cant tell you to be joyful and put it aside you need time to mourn, whatever you do just choose to be around others friends family whatever dont sit in a room by yourself invite yourself out for yontif meals even if it is hard to see others enjoying themselves on some level it will be therapeutic i wish you all the best you are one of the nicest people here and i look forward to reading what you have to say.October 19, 2011 5:29 am at 5:29 am #823817
Thank you so much for your kind words. I appreciate your good wishes. It was SO nice for me to read your last sentence, what a compliment! I clearly remember one of our earlier discussions when I’d first joined the cr and you were lamenting about busybodies in the supermarket eyeing your purchases…and I promptly asked you what you’d purchased 😉
Anyhow, it’s not my nature to invite myself out. Anyhow, many people prefer not having company the last 2 days as shuls let out at different times due to hakafos.
As mentioned earlier, I don’t have family here. Friends are with their own families. I omitted a part before, the chai on the temporary aycamyisraelchai on the gmail account if ok, sorry in advance.
Your last line is giving me chizuk, as we as humans all need a kind word every so often, and now is that perfect time for me.
I wish you could find your basherte soon and that you should experience a great marriage. Hoshana Raba is a great time for a great kvitel, so daven your heart out…I so like to dabble in shidduchim in real life, wish I or someone else could be the shaliach really soon.October 19, 2011 5:39 am at 5:39 am #823818
ok, I get it.
If you out-of-towners take too long to get back to me, there’s absolutely no way to join in time.
Thanks for the invite(?) anyway.October 19, 2011 6:00 am at 6:00 am #823819TheGoqParticipant
Ty Ayc for everything, i do remember that thread i had forgotten the mustard 🙂October 19, 2011 6:54 am at 6:54 am #823820
looking forward to hearing from you, Goq, and others…look up and you’ll find a temporary address where you can find me in my aloneness 🙂 and by all means, bring your pretzels with the mustardOctober 19, 2011 3:36 pm at 3:36 pm #823821yitayningwutParticipant
Syag Lchochma – You’re welcome, and good for you for doing that. And I believe that if you are feeling lonely and you go visit a friend or relative or hug your kids, you are mekayem the mitzva of simchas Yom Tov the way it was intended, because you are relieving that loneliness – even if just a little bit.
AYC – The halachic basis for what I wrote about crying is here: http://he.wikisource.org/wiki/%D7%A2%D7%A8%D7%95%D7%9A_%D7%94%D7%A9%D7%95%D7%9C%D7%97%D7%9F_%D7%90%D7%95%D7%A8%D7%97_%D7%97%D7%99%D7%99%D7%9D_%D7%A8%D7%A4%D7%97 – s’if 5 and 6. The rest was not from a specific sefer. And you’re welcome 🙂October 23, 2011 1:42 am at 1:42 am #823822
Syag, how did the rest of Yo”t go for you?
Thank you, yit, I’ll look into it now be”H…too bad I didn’t have time to go on the computer Hoshana Raba, it sure might have helped the last 3 days
Do you have the other source as well?November 4, 2011 6:27 am at 6:27 am #823823
“in the sefer Lekach Tov, in the volume Emuna Unechama, towards the end there is a story brought from r Chaim Vital zt”l that deals with such a scenario…
if you cant find it let me know and I’ll post the page number, someone told me they printed it in english but i am not aware of that”
Thank you so much for this.
Is there a link to it online? Do you have a page number?
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