January 2, 2011 5:14 pm at 5:14 pm #593891
Every time a guy is dishonest I nix him..for better or for worse like if he doesnt say everything or lies on his shidduch resume and then when ur talking he says something else (dont want to give out specific details) Am I doing the correct thing like who knows what else he does and hes not saying..I guess I’m a very straight forward and honest person soo it irks me a lot!
Also do you tell the shadchan that he lied?January 2, 2011 5:28 pm at 5:28 pm #725613CedarhurstMember
Yes, dump him if it really truly was a lie. No dont tell the shadchan the exact reason.January 2, 2011 5:34 pm at 5:34 pm #725614
This is a little tough to answer in one way. Was he dishonest, or did he exaggerate (said he was almost 6′ tall when he is 5’9″, for example)? Did he say something dishonest about his work situation, chronic health issues (by omission), where he went to school? If it is a serious breach, yes, I would tell the shadchan, absolutely. If it is a naarish thing, so don’t go out with him if it bothers you, but don’t mess it up for him, either.
He may be embarrassed about something, like there is a divorce in his family, but that is not being dishonest, really, it it feeling uncomfortable about giving such details before he knows someone well. If he was MARRIED before and failed to disclose, that is a biggie.January 2, 2011 5:47 pm at 5:47 pm #725615
I can tell you this. “once a liar always a liar”. Be wary, don’t get involved with liars. The more they lie the easier it gets.January 2, 2011 6:01 pm at 6:01 pm #725616dunnoMember
You have to determine if it’s an outright lie or an exaggeration, like oomis said. If it’s a lie, I would definitely dump him. If it’s an exaggeration, I would try to realize the motive behind it.January 2, 2011 6:21 pm at 6:21 pm #725617
I would agree with the “once a liar” issue, if the lie is meant to deceive someone materially. Even Hashem told a “white lie” for the sake of sholom bayis. So I think it depends on the type of lie, and its purpose. If you go out and suggest a certain type of restaurant and he hates the food, but takes you there, to please you, and says he liked it, is that really so bad? If he was arrested for DUI, but fails to disclose that, it is more problematic.January 2, 2011 6:30 pm at 6:30 pm #725618truth be toldMember
It is claimed in the name of the Chofetz Chaim that one may INITIALLY be dishonest about a couple of insignificant details (for instance height and exact age- but not where it’ll make a difference so far as child bearing..). I guess it’ll probably depend on how signifigant the lie was..January 2, 2011 6:41 pm at 6:41 pm #725619CedarhurstMember
Oomis, if he told you about the DUI, would it be then less problematic?January 2, 2011 6:48 pm at 6:48 pm #725620January 2, 2011 7:11 pm at 7:11 pm #725621
As i guy i feel this conversation is one sided…..January 3, 2011 12:33 am at 12:33 am #725622
thanks, I didn’t tell the shadchan…but pple should realize what they write down on paper should be truthful…some girls ask the references to verify whats written on paper…also it makes the shadchan look bad if they deceived you!
need ideas: I guess your lucky you only get honest girls! btw it’s a credit to your shadchan!January 3, 2011 7:52 am at 7:52 am #725623
being honest and open in the shidduch dating world is crucial, unfortunately many people feel the need to lie in order to get “the shidduch.” The truth will always prevail….I will actually share a personal story that just happened to me today….we had been dating for nearly 2 month, and we broke up because i would not compromise on shomer negiah, but u know what i was so happy because at least he was being honest about and open about it and not pretending or pressuring me. Also I felt like it was a huge test from Hashem and bh bh bh i past this one!!! and im better off….
i agree with other posters, if hes even lying about his age (ex. hes 29 and tells you hes 27) how can u trust a guy like that??? if hes lying about this who knows what else??? NEVER EVER LIE IN SHIDDUCHIM….Hashem knows who ur beshert is, and all you have to do is daven and have emunah….i know its def easier said than done…hatzlacha!!!January 3, 2011 12:59 pm at 12:59 pm #725624dunnoMember
Good for you! Regarding lying about age… I think many times, like you said, people will lie to get a shidduch. One of my relatives was a little older when she found her shidduch and asked her Rav if she can shed a year or two off her age. She was told that not only may she do so, she must. Obviously, before marriage, the truth should come out about everything but to get to a date nowadays is difficult enough and therefore the Rav okayed this provided that he find out eventually. I can tell you that she wouldn’t have dated her husband had he known her true age to begin with but they are one of the happiest couples I know.January 3, 2011 3:54 pm at 3:54 pm #725625SacrilegeMember
Obviously I feel honesty is the best policy… I also feel that sanity and common sense is also a good policy which seems to have been pushed to the back burner.January 4, 2011 12:25 am at 12:25 am #725626ProfessionalMember
OP is unclear. what was the dishonesty about?
a clear question can get a much better answer!January 4, 2011 1:34 am at 1:34 am #725627
I hear many singles especially girls ending what seem to be a good run (or so they say) for the most ridiculous reasons.
Of course total lies or deception is a serious problem, however, I hear from friends such foolishness when it comes to excuses for ending it. Even the smallest details.
Back when I was dating if I had a nickle for everytime it said
on a resume “slim” when she wasn’t, “5’4” when it was more like “4’5”, “talkative” where I was pulling more teeth than a
free dental clinic in Africa, I would be safetly retired from dental work.
This happens especially with older singles. It seems like they are afraid of commitment and grasp for straws to find a way out especially if they feel there is real chance.
Older singles if you wish to explain or refute please do,
this is what i hear from my older single friends.January 4, 2011 4:08 am at 4:08 am #725628
Oomis, if he told you about the DUI, would it be then less problematic’
Honestly,no, ebcause I absolutely cannot stand guys who get drunk and get behind the wheel of a car. But I was thinking more along the lines of this being found out by other people who then would relay this to me. I would be furious at the shadchan for hiding something that serious (as an arrest record). A person has the right to reject such a shidduch if they so choose. Maybe someone else would be more open to it.January 4, 2011 9:55 am at 9:55 am #725629
oomis just curious, what if there is something in your life you sincerely regret doing/event happening…must you disclose it?January 4, 2011 2:01 pm at 2:01 pm #725630
Professional: regardless off the specifics LYING IS LYING and there’s no way out of it…it irks me to think pple have to lie to get a date…and its not like the lie was not disclosing a criminal record..!!
oomis: maybe other girls wouldn’t be so opposed to it…but I think dating and marriage is based on loyalty and trust- what do you think???January 4, 2011 2:54 pm at 2:54 pm #725631Trying my bestMember
Lying is a big no-no.January 4, 2011 3:29 pm at 3:29 pm #725632
If you lie it will always come back to bite you in the behind. The truth has a way of always coming out and the worst time. Once you are found out to be a liar you will never be trusted.January 4, 2011 4:25 pm at 4:25 pm #725633
Sadly, this is yet another reason that there is a “shidduch crisis” and clearly it seems that most of the posters here are girls. You have to define what a lie is. Do you think even the shadchanim aren’t telling some white lies before and during the dating just to get things moving along? I can tell you that unless it’s something important or life altering, for example health issues or some serious indiscretions in your past, there’s nothing wrong with witholding info or bending the truth a bit, IN THE BEGINNING. At the end of the day if you’d have ALL the facts from the get go, I’m sure many happily married people today would never have gone out with each other. If not telling something right away is just till “we get to know each other and then I’ll tell the truth”, there’s absolutely nothing wrong with that. Most of the time when you already like someone you can be more forgiving.January 5, 2011 6:47 am at 6:47 am #725634truth be toldMember
Its interesting to watch the evolution of opinions. From questioning, to being just so certain. Many gedolim have allowed and encouraged insignificant details to be misrepresented. But they were in the business of doing what Hashem wants.
Looks like some people would REALLY benefit from a rov or rebetzin, to whom they will really open up to and disclose everything they are feeling, including the terrible LYING they feel has been done to them, in order that they can be guided by experienced ovday Hashem who will help them work through their problems in getting through the dating process (which they cant seem to get by) in order to get married.
A rav/rebbie/rebetzen/mechaneches can help, only if we are forthcoming and not worried about exposing the liar and are actually willing to LISTEN!January 5, 2011 3:10 pm at 3:10 pm #725635
Truth: you got your point across but how far does one go to be accepting?? Theres a certain limit to how far one can just forgive everything… Of course a Rav/Reb. is extremely important and those who go to mentors/other shadchans/coaches etc. for their guidance is very important…being that you don’t know the exact circumstances you wouldn’t be able to judge correctly…January 6, 2011 1:32 am at 1:32 am #725636
oomis: maybe other girls wouldn’t be so opposed to it…but I think dating and marriage is based on loyalty and trust- what do you think??? “
I agree with you. But there are also some things that people do not feel they can share, until the relationship is taking a serious turn.
There is one Universal Truth, however. There is no way one should ever tell his wife the truth if she is asking him, “Does this make me look fat?” There is NO right answer to that question.
EVER!January 6, 2011 2:10 am at 2:10 am #725637
ItsJustMyOpinion, witholding information is not exactly the same as lying. It is ok to give information slowly as you get to know someone and feel you can trust them, that is what most Rabbonim will tell you. However, lying about something and then being found out is something entirely different.January 6, 2011 4:08 am at 4:08 am #725638
what info would ppl tolerate that would be best said later in a serious relationship-b4 they get engaged?January 6, 2011 4:26 am at 4:26 am #725639
memo: i dont know how to cook, that shouldnt make it or break it, but just giving a heads up for what they should expect….January 6, 2011 4:37 am at 4:37 am #725640
memo, Rabbonim say that if someone has an illness they shouldn’t say right away, only let the other person know after a few dates when they have a sense of who you are and you have a sense if they can handle the information. Of course if you have a serious illness, it wouldn’t be fair to the other person not to disclose it to the shadchan and to work with a Rav and a shadchan who know how to find the right shiduch for you.
In addition, in many cases if you have a past history and you have turned your life around, many Rabbonim say that you don’t have to disclose this either until you get to know the other person a little so they judge you on who you are today and not who you were when you were much younger. If your past was not revealed when the investigated you, then waiting a few dates according to the Rabbonim will not make a difference. Some Rabbonim according to another thread hold that you don’t have to disclose this information at all. I disagree because when your spouse finds out after marriage, or your chosson or Kallah find out after engagement, it can bring about disastrous results.January 6, 2011 10:30 pm at 10:30 pm #725641
Memo said: what info would ppl tolerate that would be best said later in a serious relationship-b4 they get engaged?
Anything that you TRULY feel is not going to make a difference in a marriage. I know someone (happily married) that said, “If I would’ve known he didn’t have a high school diploma I never would have gone out with him.
As I said before, I’m sure most people out there could say, “If I would’ve known” they may have never even given the other a fair shot.
Aries, I’d have to say witholding info is pretty close to lying if you think it’s something that the person would want to know. Unless you agree with Bill Clinton.
Memo, why would anyone in their right mind answer even a direct question truthfully before you’ve even met them or have just met, knowing that it will result in a definite “TAKE A HIKE”. Most people aren’t lying, they’re just trying to get their foot in the door.January 7, 2011 1:59 am at 1:59 am #725642
ItsJustMyOpinion said ; Memo, why would anyone in their right mind answer even a direct question truthfully before you’ve even met them or have just met, knowing that it will result in a definite “TAKE A HIKE”. Most people aren’t lying, they’re just trying to get their foot in the door.
Bravo! you sound just like me.January 7, 2011 2:28 am at 2:28 am #725643
ItsJustMyOpinion, I don’t think you should start off on a first date bearing your soul especially if you don’t know whether or not there will be a second or third. As I said this is also the opinion of most Rabbonim. It is not lying unless you don’t tell at all before things become serious. Once you see that there is a possibility with the other person, you have to start being serious and letting the other person know about you.January 7, 2011 3:10 am at 3:10 am #725644
sounds like it an accepted thing to withhold info—but it doesn’t seem like yashrusdik at all!!!!
If this is the case than many couples have to deal with the facts after they are serious than knowing the facts b4 they go out…January 7, 2011 6:37 am at 6:37 am #725645
memo; For argument’s sake,
lets say that there is a girl that is not heavy, but not skinny,
Let us say that girl could’ve been you. Are you telling me you would say “I’m not slim” on your resume?
If so, I tip my hat (a borsalino) to you.
However, that is a ridiculous practice. What if a guy is looking for a slim-ish girl. If you wrote that on paper, he would never give you the time of day. What if not knowing specifics he met you, liked your personality & didn’t notice the fullishness.
You’d be happily married, as opposed to your Shitoh which would
leave the full-ish person at home almost dateless.
Most Shadchanim tweak, or don’t give a B’rochel Bitcho Haktanah
description, for they know, not everyone has the same taste, likes or dislikes. As beauty really is in the eye of the beholder, it lets the dater decide for themselves what is
pretty to them, or who is considered smart to them.
Personality, brilliant as it can be, does not shine through the resume, and has to be experienced in person.January 7, 2011 2:06 pm at 2:06 pm #725646
OK, I get your point! I wasn’t really referring to the appearances part more like serious issues but I know pple exaggerate a bit (too much)January 7, 2011 6:43 pm at 6:43 pm #725647
You do seem to be getting the point and none of this is not “yashrusdik”. You’re right regarding serious issues, however it’s so tough out there these days that you wonder what really are the issues? You want a nice person that will treat you well and have the same values as you do (give or take). Marriage has been and always will be about compromising.
I dated a girl once who straight out asked me (on the 2nd or 3rd date) “When you watch a video do you fast forward the bad parts?” Of course my answer was, “No, I rewind it and watch it again”
Do you really think that question deserved a serious answer?
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