- This topic has 20 replies, 11 voices, and was last updated 7 years, 4 months ago by .
-
Posts
-
By supporting her husband and sons’ Limud Torah.
Clap, clap clap.
Nashim b’mai zachyan?
The one piece of Torah learning every single Bais Yaakov graduate takes with her.
Your explanation, Joseph, while not precisely correct, and lacking some detail, is certainly on track.
She also gets schar for her own learning as well. I’m not saying it’s as important or that it’s the same thing, but it is important to know that she gets some schar for her learning too.
just curious – what brought this up?
I learned that it is referring to how women are zoche to Techiyas Hamaisim specifically.
There is a specific merit to supporting men’s learning, but women do get schar for their own learning even if it’s not the same thing. The Rambam says that women receive schar for learning Torah. It’s like any other Mitzvah that women do that they aren’t obligated to do but they do as “aino metzuveh v’oshe”. For that matter, they aren’t chayiv to get married in the first place.
According to the Maharal, women don’t have a chiyuv to learn Torah since they can get Olam Haba without it.
For all the single girls who are wondering how they can fulfill this concept:
1. Give money to a Kollel or to someone learning.
2. Daven for someone (either someone specific, all the men and boys in Am Yisrael or your zivug) to learn well.
The first one I heard. The second one I came up with since I have no money to give to anyone.
3. (I just thought of this) Work in Kiruv.
Or you can learn. just because theres no chiyuv for women to learn doesnt mean they dont get schar for doing it…
.??? ????? ???? ?? ?? ??? ??? ???? ???? ????. ???? ??? ??????. Rambam, Mishna Torah, Hilchos Talmud Torah 1:13.
??? ????? ???? ?? ?? ??? ??? ?? ???? ???? ???? ????? ????? ?????. Shulchan Aruch Yoreh Deah, 246:6.
???????? ?????? ???????? ????????? ??????? ???????? ???????????? ?????????. Rama, Shulchan Aruch Yoreh Deah, 246:6.
For the most part a woman is not obligated to learn Torah and therefore her reward for learning will be less than for a man (even the learning that is required, as the Rama writes, is still not a fulfillment of the obligation of talmud Torah) and it will not have the same level of protection. Therefore, in the Gemara (Sotah 21a), Ravina says that only way for a woman to get the same level of protection from Talmud Torah as a man, is for her to share in the reward of sons and husband by aiding them in their learning.
. . . ???? ???? ?????? ???? ????? ?? ???? ????? ????? ???
????? ??? ????? ???? ???? ??????? ???? ????? ????? ??? ?????? ?? ????? ????? ?????? ??????? ?????? ????? ??? ???????? ?? ???? ??? ????? ?? ?? ????? ???????
Joseph -“Rav said to R. Chiya: How do women [for whom Torah study is not considered a paramount duty] earn a share in the world to come? By making their small children go to the synagogue [where they learn Torah], and by making their husbands go to the yeshivah to learn Mishnah, and by waiting for their husbands until they come home from the yeshivah.”
This obviously isn’t the only way though to earn a share in the world to come. For single women also have a share in the world to come.
And like lilmod said, women get schar for learning Torah too, even if they aren’t obligated in it.
How can a yisroel get schar for doing the avodah? By bringing his grandchildren who are kohanim to do the avodah?
He can learn, and get even more s’char than a kohen gets for doing the avodah.
How can choshuv people get the schar kulam from doing gelilah?
A woman who learns gets sechar although not as much as a man (Rambam, Hilchot Talmud Torah 1,13). This apparently is a case of people getting sechar for doing mitzvot in which they are not obligated (Baba Kama 87a). I would imagine that her sechar for learning those halachot which she must keep (most of Orech Chaim and Yoreh Deah and all of Choshen Mishpat) would be the same as a man’s as she is obligated to learn them.
PBA – it’s a special thing for women to be able to get the schar of Limud Torah by enabling others to learn. A teacher of mine once showed me a Gemara or a Rashi on a Gemara (I have no idea where it was – maybe someone here can help out?) to the effect that when a lady does housework so that her husband and sons can learn it counts as Limud Torah for her. This is something specific to women.
I have no idea if I’m quoting correctly at all, so if someone knows the source, I’d appreciate it.
In the time of the gemorah, women in general, in all socities, were considered second class. However, the Zohar says that women have less mitzvos because they are on a higher spiritual level than men. Although the Torah is eternal and Torah life is the way we go, times and cultures change. In the early 20th century, girls were not happy with their place in society. They felt empty. This caused terrible departures from yiddishkeit. Sarah Schnierer saw this and recognized the need for educating Jewish girls in Torah so that they would fel meaningful and that yiddishkeit would be relevant in their lives. All the Torah gedolim of Poland and Lithuania and Germany agreed with her and gave her strong support, especially the Gerrer Rebbe ztzl. Result: we have generations of Torah true girls becoming strong supporters of Torah learning. Yes, women can have their own schar for learning Torah.
Avi K,
You wrote: “I would imagine that her sechar for learning those halachot which she must keep (most of Orech Chaim and Yoreh Deah and all of Choshen Mishpat) would be the same as a man’s as she is obligated to learn them.”
I think that this is incorrect. If her schar for learning the laws that she must keep was the same as a man’s, the Gemara would have answered “she is metzuva v’ose on ???????? ???????????? ?????????.”
Rather, she is obligated to learn those laws for practical purposes, not because of a mitzvah of “Talmud Torah” (her learning would be a hechsher mitzvah and non-mutzuveh kiyum of Talmud Torah). And the special protection provided by Torah study only applies to those with a mitzvah of Talmud Torah.
I don’t know why you had to revive this thread Joseph.
By now even those of us who don’t remember “Nashim b’mai zachyan” from Bais Yaakov or yeshiva, have become familiar with the basic idea.
For those of us who have been blessed with husbands and sons it’s a good think to think about.
I’m sure you realize that there are many women who live out their earthly years without those blessings. There is a tafkid for them as well, as there is for every Neshama, and a Chelek le’Olam Habbah that every person receives. Their s’char will be allotted with the same precision as mine and yours.
If you don’t realize that you’re causing these women to feel additional tza’ar, in addition to the tza’ar they must already feel at what they lack, then I’d like to bring it to your attention.
You are, as your subtitle suggests, a voluble poster, and you have your opinions, but I’ve never thought of you as a mean poster, insensitive to the pain of others.
Rav Shraga Silverstein, zatsal, told me that it is talking about Techiyas hamaisim. Olam Haba is b’schar any Mitzvos – it doesn’t have to davka be Talmud Torah. “Kol Yisroel yeish lahem cheilik l’olam haba”. Not learning Torah is not on the list of things for which one loses his cheilik.
Also, another Rav told me that it doesn’t say that she can’t earn Olam Habah for her own learning. It asks the question, “Nashim b’mai zakaim?” in reference to the majority of women who don’t learn Torah. However, there may be many who would disagree with that interpretation. I don’t know if he had a source, but I also don’t know of any sources that contradict this interpretation. So I don’t know if it can be interpreted that way or not (although it is clear that women do get schar in Olam Haba for their own learning, but maybe they also have to make sure that they are keilim for men’s learning as well).
In any case, it doesn’t have to be her husband and sons. It can be any men, and there are many ways to accomplish this. One can give money to a kollel, one can teach boys. Or you can even teach girls who go on to be wives and mothers. Or you can post comments in the CR about how people should be learning Torah and not wasting time in the CR :).
- You must be logged in to reply to this topic.