Home › Forums › Bais Medrash › How could it be that one who picks up an idol acquires it? It's the goy's rshus!
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February 22, 2010 6:22 pm at 6:22 pm #591269Talmid_lo_ChachamMember
Isn’t it gezel? Lets see what we can dig up here from the Gemora.
Mekor: Avodah Zorah 31b Gilyonei HaShas
February 22, 2010 6:38 pm at 6:38 pm #674827oomisParticipantWould the Gemarah say that Rochel Emainu was a gazlanit?
February 22, 2010 6:44 pm at 6:44 pm #674828Talmid_lo_ChachamMemberNo, because the Gemora says the opposite of what I say. I am makshey on the sugya.
An answer would be that because the laws of kniyah weren’t enacted yet, because they are midrobonon, and so Rochel Imainu wasn’t oiver on any tokonoh because the tokonoh didn’t exist yet.
February 22, 2010 6:44 pm at 6:44 pm #674829anuranParticipantDepends on what you mean by “picks up”. Do you mean “picks up without knowing what it was”, “picks up to melt down in the foundry”, “picks up in a container full of unsorted storage locker contents”, “picks up to install in a temple dedicated to Something with tentacles” or something else? There are serious differences between all of these based on knowledge, intent and consequences.
February 22, 2010 6:46 pm at 6:46 pm #674830Talmid_lo_ChachamMemberPicks up. No matter what intent. Even if he wants to be mevatel the avoidah zorah (which he can’t because a Yid can’t be mevatel a goy’s idol)
February 23, 2010 6:26 am at 6:26 am #674831Talmid_lo_ChachamMembersee Rosh Rosh HaShonoh Perek Gimel:9
February 23, 2010 7:05 am at 7:05 am #674832Talmid_lo_ChachamMemberHe quotes there that an Avodah Zarah is muttar if it is crushed, like the ashes of an Ir Nidachas which can be used for covering the blood. Also a lulav from Avodah Zarah is muttar (not from Asheirah).
He also says that there is a shitoh that if a Yid was mekaneh the avodah zarah unintentionally, with the intent to be mevatel the Avodah Zarah, he did not acquire it and one can be mevatel it.
February 23, 2010 5:03 pm at 5:03 pm #674835anuranParticipantSo….your answer to my question is that the question was worth asking. Intention and what one actually does do make important distinctions. And Avraham wouldn’t have to be executed for smashing the idols in his dad’s House O’ Dieties.
February 23, 2010 8:02 pm at 8:02 pm #674836HeshyMemberJust wanted to mention that the Medrash Rabbah does refer to Rochel Emainu as a ganef or gazlanit (I don’t recall) based on the posik in chumash.
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