August 7, 2022 11:35 am at 11:35 am #2112762PeretzParticipant
how did early jews keep warm in terribly cold climates during the winter?
can a shabbos goy do the replenishing for an individual on shabbos?
afaik most fireplaces/fire burning stoves do not keep lit or hot for 24hrs+-
what about those who did not live near others, as there are any stories of old, tell of jews who lived in isolated cold climate with no nearby neighbors, how did they keep warm?August 7, 2022 12:19 pm at 12:19 pm #2112790Menachem ShmeiParticipant
“can a shabbos goy do the replenishing for an individual on shabbos?”
It is permitted to ask a goy to turn on the heat since it is necessary for health and gzeiras amira l’nochri did not include heat.
The entire idea of Shabbos goy comes from this. Every Jewish house or building had a goy who would come in every Shabbos to take care of the fire.
“jews who lived in isolated cold climate with no nearby neighbors”
The only Jews I could think of were those in Siberia. No, they did not keep warm. That’s how they died.August 7, 2022 4:22 pm at 4:22 pm #2112801akupermaParticipant
Bayis Sheini (corresponding to the “Classical period” in European history), was a warm period. It was probably warmer than it is today.
One didn’t find large Jewish communities in cold areas until the late Middle Ages (which is when a major cold period, lasting in the 19th century) began. Houses were generally built with good insulation and people dressed warmly (wool was the main fabric). You normally didn’t find people wearing their “summer” clothes while indoors during the winter. Jews rarely lived on isolated homesteads, since that would mean not having a minyan or schools.August 7, 2022 4:23 pm at 4:23 pm #2112811Sam KleinParticipant
They drank a hot tea to warm them up. That was already heated from before Shabbos started.August 7, 2022 5:55 pm at 5:55 pm #2112823GadolhadorahParticipant
Memo to file:
Drinking hot tea will provide some short-term warming affect to the body but generally not result in maintaining a warm body temperature over a sustained period of exposure to freezing temperatures. Adding some sugar to the water might extend the warming benefits. Adding alcohol may actually be counter-productive even though it may induce short-term feeling of “warmth”.August 7, 2022 5:56 pm at 5:56 pm #2112825rightwriterParticipant
thats some miraculous hot tea to stay hot for 24 hoursAugust 7, 2022 5:56 pm at 5:56 pm #2112827moishekapoiehParticipant
ShtreimelsAugust 7, 2022 8:46 pm at 8:46 pm #2112874KuvultParticipant
It’s a big myth about Jews “Religiously” attending Minyan. It’s hard to imagine how dark it is without all the “Light pollution” we have. If a Jew lived in a Shtetl good luck walking a few hundred feet down a rutted, potholed dirt road without breaking your neck. So many many Jews davened Friday night at home. Shabbos morning wasn’t an issue. It was difficult to walk home after Mincha so they served Shalos Seudos in Shul so the men could use fire to light the way home after Shabbos ended.August 7, 2022 10:11 pm at 10:11 pm #2112904commonsaychelParticipant
they daven in th TROLLer Shul, where the TROLLer rebbeh gave them warmthAugust 8, 2022 6:51 am at 6:51 am #2112954
Akuperma, until the churban, most Jews outside of major cities did live on isolated homesteads. They were farmers. Shuls and prayers, as we know them today didn’t exist and thus there was almost never a need for a minyan. If one was needed a farmer would travel to a village. The Gemorah talks about reading the Megillah on the closest market day to the actual day of Purim so as not to make the farmers travel twice in one week.August 8, 2022 10:50 am at 10:50 am #2113014akupermaParticipant
Even when they were farmers, Jews did not live in isolated homesteads (the way Americans do), but would live in a village from which everyone would walk to their fields (as is probably the case in most of the world), and would go to a regional center for market days. That would have especially been true of Jews living in northern Europe during the last 1000 years (and remember the topic under discussion is keeping warm in winter, which is an issue in places where you can go several months with temperatures being clearly above freezing – but never was an issue in Eretz Yisrael).August 8, 2022 12:58 pm at 12:58 pm #2113149Always_Ask_QuestionsParticipant
Ashkenazim in Northern Europe were not farmers, as Jews were usually not allowed to own land in Europe. So, they lived in dense towns and villages with non-Jews and communal kitchens readily available.August 8, 2022 2:24 pm at 2:24 pm #2113194
Akuperma, if they all lived in villages, then there would have been no need for the Gemorah to allow for the Megilla to be read on the closest market day .
Also, keep in mind, the first synogogues didn’t appear until late in the Second Temple period and Shmoneh Esreh wasn’t composed until sometimevl during Bayis Sheni. So, why would they have needed a minyan on a regular basisAugust 8, 2022 2:55 pm at 2:55 pm #2113199Amil ZolaParticipant
My Maternal grand and great grandparents lived in the forests of Ukraine a days travel from the closest town. They had a way station for teamsters and the uncles were woodcutters. My G and GG grandfathers were sojourners and traveled to America to work as wood carvers on some of the great country houses of the wealthy. The residence was built on stilts, cattle,horses and oxen were housed below. There was a stone fireplace and hearth on the second story with ‘sleeping closets’ on either side. Travelers bunked on the floor. A wraparound ‘deck’ was used for summer sleeping. I’ve seen old photos of the place but none of the interiors. In America they were the proud owners of a huge monarch wood burning stove with a hot water boiler. (Lots of picture of this acquisition.) Family stories tell me that kids piled up and slept together outside their parents sleeping closets in the winter in Ukraine. Non of the peasant Jews entered a synagogue until they came to America.August 8, 2022 7:17 pm at 7:17 pm #2113264
The warm period in Europe lasted from the 900’s to the 1300’s.
During that period vineyards existed as far north as Scandinavia. However, as what became the Little Ice Age began, it became increasingly difficult for vineyards to grow in England, Ireland, Germany, Poland, Russia and Austria and wine became difficult to find and expensive. When the Mishne Brura paskened to allow kiddush shabbos morning over non wine , he cited a difficulty getting wine. This was the reason.
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