How do I stop my wife spending??!

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  • #1177117
    Health
    Participant

    Das -“Health – Not sure if you were serious or not but it doesn’t sound like they’re having such major marriage problems that would require divorce or therapy c”v. Although seeking advise from rabbanim and other knowledgeable people is always a good idea, you seem to imply that their marriage is on the rocks. Every one has differences and arguments in a marriage (and this is a pretty typical one) – nothing wrong with that! Question is how to deal with it.”

    Yes, I was serious. By the time a person comes to a public forum, like YWN, seeking help – it’s because they are at the end of their rope.

    Now is the time to seek professional help before the resentment amongst themselves is too great.

    #1177118
    shmendrick
    Member

    There are frum groups of Shopaholics Anonymous.

    #1177119

    How do you stop your wife spending…?

    Simple …. just hide her shoes !!!!!

    #1177120
    Torah613Torah
    Participant

    Why are you using credit cards?

    Give her cash and if she she must use a credit card (like for online purchases) she has to give that amount of cash into an envelope marked for the cc bill.

    #1177121
    greatest
    Member

    ” By the time a person comes to a public forum, like YWN, seeking help – it’s because they are at the end of their rope.”

    Yeah, right. People post here their half-baked thoughts of whatever crossed their mind half-seriously or less.

    #1177122
    OneOfMany
    Participant

    C’mon Joe…one more screen name and I think you’ll break a record…

    #1177123
    Joseph
    Participant

    You just tell her, “dear, you need to cut back the spending by 25%” or whatever limit you wish to set.

    #1177124
    👑RebYidd23
    Participant

    Then jump to the left so the knife goes into the chair instead of your face.

    #1177125
    Joseph
    Participant

    Another option is to give her a prepaid MasterCard instead of a credit card or blank checks. And deposit to the card monthly whatever the spending limit is.

    #1177126
    Lilmod Ulelamaid
    Participant

    Joseph, I really hope you are joking.

    #1177127
    Joseph
    Participant

    The Halacha is that if a wife purchases something without her husband’s permission, the husband has the right to get the money back from the merchant. Even if the product or service was consumed and isn’t returnable.

    #1177128
    Mammele
    Participant

    Joseph is (almost) never serious though he pretends to be…

    If this question is still relevant to anybody I’d suggest setting up X dollars (whatever amount you think is reasonable) as an automatic transfer – each month – to a savings account, and putting the spender (HIM OR HER) in charge of paying the bills.

    But first have an open discussion about it and get your spouse on board with your plan – and the details. Compromise on the savings amount if necessary.

    #1177129
    Sparkly
    Member

    let her get a side job to pay for extras.

    #1177130
    Lilmod Ulelamaid
    Participant

    Sparkly – maybe she is the one working and earning the money in the first place (I know halachically it still belongs to her husband, and she can’t overspend w/o his permission. I’m just pointing out that she may not be able to work harder than she does already).

    Also, we don’t know that the things she is spending on are extras.

    Bottom line, what they need to do is talk!

    #1177131
    Sparkly
    Member

    lilmod ulelamaid – my money does NOT belong to my husband thank G-d that the guys that i was talking about that were my shidduchim know that the money i make is MINE! in fact so much so that they have to pay for everything and the rest which is the money that i make is what i get to spend on extras and can buy extras for my husband and i.

    #1177132
    Joseph
    Participant

    Sparkly, halacha disagrees with you.

    #1177133
    SlowGoing
    Member

    I did not see anyone mentioning that a wife has the right to say “Ee Efshy B’Takonas Chachomim”, keep her own earnings and release the husband from supporting her. Admittedly, it’s not a good recipe for Shalom Bayis .. . . . .

    #1177134
    Little Froggie
    Participant

    Why should anyone stop his wife from spending? I don’t understand the question.

    #1177135
    Sparkly
    Member

    Joseph – state the pasuk that disagrees with me.

    #1177136
    Joseph
    Participant

    Sparkly: Shulchan Aruch 248, Gilyon Rabbi Akiva Eiger EH 80:1, Chazon Ish EH 70:6, Igros Moshe EH 1:106, Shevet Halevi 2:118, etc.

    #1177137
    CTLAWYER
    Participant

    Sparkly………

    I’m in agreement with you. The USA is not a theocracy and wives are not chattel belonging to husbands.

    In 1970 my sister was married immediately after graduating college and just before starting to teach. My brother and I each gave her $1,000 and told her this is your money, it is not your husband’s property. Soon you’ll be earning a living, but when the children come and only he is working you still need to have some independent money. We never want you in the situation of having to ask your husband for money to buy him a birthday gift. If this ever runs out and you have not been able tgo replenish it come back and tell us.

    About 10 years later when she had both a sickly husband and a deaf child, she told us she needed some extra personal funds. We were more than happy to help.

    When our eldest daughter was married erev Pesach our sons also gave her a private cash stash. It was larger than my sister got, as it is 45 years later.

    No woman should have to be so controlled by a man that she lives in fear of embarrassment that the husband would tell a merchant that my wife was not authorized to buy from you and demand the money back.

    #1177138
    Lilmod Ulelamaid
    Participant

    Slowgoing: “did not see anyone mentioning that a wife has the right to say “Ee Efshy B’Takonas Chachomim”, keep her own earnings and release the husband from supporting her. Admittedly, it’s not a good recipe for Shalom Bayis”

    True. Also, not a good recipe for shalom bayis for her husband to act overly-domineering and controlling, using the fact that according to halacha the money belongs to him if she does not release him from supporting her. Also, not a good recipe for shalom bayis for a wife to spend money w/o discussing it with her husband…

    Bottom Line: if you want shalom bayis, talk about the situation. Wives show respect for your husband, and husbands show respect for your wives, and shalom al yisrael! (I know – people who aren’t married make the best marriage counselors, and people who don’t have kids are the best at giving child-rearing advice :)!)

    #1177139
    Abba_S
    Participant

    Income earned during a marriage is by secular law an asset of the family and must be divided equally. According to Jewish law it belongs to the husband. As far as the wife saying I’ll keep my income and you don’t have to support me. She can do that but odds are she wouldn’t get a get (Jewish writ of divorce) or if she does she will have to pay alimony.

    #1177140
    Person1
    Member

    Joseph I’m not married, but I think most married couples prefer to settle their disagreements without involving the Shulchan Aruch. If I may add that seems to be the healthy thing to do. I appreciate your bkius though.

    #1177141
    dovrosenbaum
    Participant

    Oy, that’s a woman for you.

    You need to put her on a tight budget. If she gives you a hard time, you should get the input of a rav and a financial counselor.

    #1177142
    Joseph
    Participant

    I think most Yirei Shamayim prefer to involve/follow Shulchan Aruch, Person1.

    #1177143
    Lilmod Ulelamaid
    Participant

    Person1: I agree with you, but I do have one qualification. It is very important for girls/women to realize that al pi halacha, they can’t spend money without okaying it without their husbands first, and even if their husbands are the nicest people in the world and even if (maybe especially if) the wife is the one earning the money, they might not appreciate it if their wives spend money without asking/discussing it with them first.

    I knew two newly-married ladies who did not realize that, and their husbands were not so happy about it. In one case, I felt a bit guilty, because I had been out shopping with her, and when she said something about buying an article of clothing for herself as a surprise for him, I had a feeling it was a bad idea but I didn’t say anything. Her husband is extremely nice so it didn’t exactly ruin their marriage, but I think she wished she had realized that ahead of time.

    I’m not saying that men should be controlling or domineering, but I think there is something in between a wife feeling controlled and a wife spending money indiscriminately. Each couple has to figure out what works best for them, taking their spouse’s needs and personality into account.

    #1177144
    Lilmod Ulelamaid
    Participant

    ps: And of course, the wife should be more focused on her husband’s needs and the husband on his wife’s needs.

    #1177145
    Joseph
    Participant

    Rav Avigdor Miller zt’l always said that a working wife should hand her paycheck to her husband. (This was before the days of direct deposit.)

    #1177146
    Lilmod Ulelamaid
    Participant

    Joseph, I would think it should depend on the couple, and what works best for them. Besides, some men might prefer that their wives do the banking to avoid bitul Torah and shmiras ainayim issues.

    #1177147
    Joseph
    Participant

    It was the principal, lilmud, not necessarily who did the paperwork. He said that in shiurim (you can hear it on his Torah Tapes); it wasn’t individualized advice.

    #1177148
    Lilmod Ulelamaid
    Participant

    Joseph – okay, I’ll look into it when I get married, IYH. As long as the guy is nice and not controlling, I don’t think it would bother me.

    #1177149
    Lilmod Ulelamaid
    Participant

    and as long as he gives it back to me after I hand it to him 🙂

    #1177150
    golfer
    Participant

    Person1- WHAT?

    Whether we are a married couple settling disagreements, an indidvidual driving to the mall, a couple disciplining their child, a couple getting a divorce, a couple going out to dinner, a woman buying a dress, a young man going on vacation with his friends, a young lady talking on the phone to her classmate, an individual walking into the bank, or a thirsty individual looking to buy a drink on a summer day-

    We always aspire to involve the Shulchan Aruch.

    What exactly does “Shivisi…” mean to you?

    Do I ever do anything impulsively, distractedly, negligently or unthinkingly? Yes. Is that who I want to be? No.

    If there’s no Yiras HaRommimus in the relationship, it’s not going to lead to good things…

    #1177151
    Joseph
    Participant

    He’ll give you a prepaid MasterCard. 😉

    #1177152
    ☕ DaasYochid ☕
    Participant

    Sholom Bayis – priceless.

    #1177153
    Joseph
    Participant
    #1177154
    Lilmod Ulelamaid
    Participant

    “He’ll give you a prepaid MasterCard.”

    sounds good to me!

    #1177155
    Lilmod Ulelamaid
    Participant

    Golfer, to be “dan l’kaf zchus”, I think Person1’s point may have been that once you are involved in an argument (chas v’shalom), the best way to resolve it might not be for the husband to start pointing out all of the halachos to his wife and holding them over her head.

    Both of your points are valid and important to keep in mind. On the one hand, the Shulchan Aruch must guide all of our actions, but at the same time, when dealing with relationships, one must also keep in mind that the main issue is the relationship itself and the individuals involved, and not necessarily the “dinei mamanos” involved. Obviously, the Torah is our Guide in all respects and it Guides us in the Middos and sensitivity needed to deal with relationship issues as well.

    #1177156
    SlowGoing
    Member

    So to sum things up, we need to follow the Shulchan Aruch’s guidance in all matters, and we also need to communicate sensitively with our spouses about potential areas of discord, i.e. money. Usually, when someone studies to become a Rav or Posek, he has to know the Shulchan Aruch pretty well. Although there are only 4 sections to it, most of the Rabbonim who confer Semicha (ordination) on a would-be Rav also encourage their candidates to become knowledgeable in the “fifth” section of the Shulchan Aruch, which is how to be a mentsch (I trust that word is sufficiently well-known) and how to deal with people in a humanist, effective manner. The Shulchan Aruch definitely doesn’t want couples to fight over money or anything else. Everyone, not only the Rabbonim, have to behave in a way that is consistent with the fifth section of the Shulchan Aruch.

    I heard a story about a husband who “dragged” his wife to the Rav so the Rav could confirm to her that since she was now married, she was obligated to listen (he really meant obey) to her husband over her father, as the Halacha states. The Rav confirmed that, but then he said to the husband “If you want your wife to live with you to a ripe old age, she will only merit that from listening to her father (Kibud Av); not from listening to you !”

    #1177157
    Joseph
    Participant

    I think lilmud’s above post (linked below) really summed the issue up quite succinctly:

    http://www.theyeshivaworld.com/coffeeroom/topic/how-do-i-stop-my-wife-spending/page/2#post-625271

    #1177158
    Person1
    Member

    Maybe this is a linguistic misunderstanding. The “Shulchan Aruch” has become a short for “everything hashem wants from you”. However I was only talking about the book “Shulchan Aruch” (and other diney mamonot sources)

    I don’t think you should resolve problems in shlom bait by looking up who’s right in diney mamonot. LU hasexplained the reasons for that better than I could. I doubt anyone disagrees with that?

    And Golfer, doesn’t your response seems to you a little bit too alarmed?

    #1177159
    Lilmod Ulelamaid
    Participant

    Slowgoing: I heard a story (not sure if I’m giving it over exactly right) about a couple who had some argument involving priorities of kibbud av v’eim vs.the wife listening to her husband (I don’t remember the details – if it had to do with the wife doing something for her parents, or the husband doing something for his parents). In any case, they went to the Rav and presented it as a technical halachic sheilah. He answered the question with the technical halachic answer and then told them that if they are asking such a question, they clearly need marriage therapy.

    My point is the same one I made above. The technical halachos should guide us, but at the end of the day, we are talking about relationships, and these situations must be dealt with accordingly.

    #1177160
    Lilmod Ulelamaid
    Participant

    Person1: “And Golfer, doesn’t your response seems to you a little bit too alarmed?”

    Person1, the way she understood you, she would have been right for being so alarmed (if you had meant what she thought you meant). However, she misunderstood you, as you have clearly confirmed in your above post.

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