November 24, 2008 3:15 pm at 3:15 pm #588720noitallmrParticipant
Games such as Doom, Unreal Tournament etc. how do they negatively affect our teenage kids?November 24, 2008 3:55 pm at 3:55 pm #626176
They don’t. You can call it bittul torah, but they don’t create an inclination to violence. They may bring out violent tendencies that already existed, but 20+ years of violent games being played by kids all over the world has pretty much disproven any knee-jerk reaction to try and claim that playing violent games causes kids to become violent.
Frankly, I think kids should play games rather than watch TV and stuff. I learned alot from games growing up, problem solving skills, logical thinking and the like. A good adventure or rpg game provides hours of wholesome entertainment.
Now I expect to be drowned out in a sea of people telling me I’m wrong with no real proof or reason.November 24, 2008 4:00 pm at 4:00 pm #626177jphoneMember
Kids need an outlet. As different as every kid (really all people)is from the next, is as different a solution that is needed. Cookie cutter approaches may work for the “average kid” but most kids are not “the average kid”. Hopefully, all parents know their own kids and what works for them.November 24, 2008 6:07 pm at 6:07 pm #626178squeakParticipant
Chacham2 – it depends what you are looking for re “violent tendency”. While you may argue that statistically violent crime rates are not affected, kids definitely do have a tendency to “act out” what they see. This may not bother you, just as it doesn’t both TV watchers that their kids walk into school and behave like characters in South Park. But my kid who does not watch that show does not act that way, and does not yell “You killed – ” or “Yeah, he’s dead” when another kid falls down.
If you’ve played violent video games your sensitivities to it are nil (I’m talking directly to you and your expressed opinion, not just generally).November 24, 2008 6:37 pm at 6:37 pm #626179tzippiMember
re chacham2: I can’t believe that they don’t at least desensitize kids.November 24, 2008 7:19 pm at 7:19 pm #626180
Even the most realistic video games are still obviously cartoonish. They don’t look like real life scenes. I’d rather my kids play violent games than watch movies.
What I can’t ever understand is the tendency of some parents to consider a movie “kosher” if it contains shooting and violence, as long as it doesnt contain any immorality.November 24, 2008 8:25 pm at 8:25 pm #626181
You wrote: “What I can’t ever understand is the tendency of some parents to consider a movie “kosher” if it contains shooting and violence, as long as it doesnt contain any immorality. “November 24, 2008 8:26 pm at 8:26 pm #626182
You wrote: What I can’t ever understand is the tendency of some parents to consider a movie “kosher” if it contains shooting and violence, as long as it doesnt contain any immorality.November 24, 2008 8:28 pm at 8:28 pm #626183noitallmrParticipant
“Even the most realistic video games are still obviously cartoonish”
I’m afraid this is 2008 where the games are drastically real. So real in fact you might think you are watching a movie. Anyway that isn’t the point.November 24, 2008 8:46 pm at 8:46 pm #626184
Sorry, I hit return too soon. What I meant to write was this:
You wrote: “What I can’t ever understand is the tendency of some parents to consider a movie “kosher” if it contains shooting and violence, as long as it doesnt contain any immorality.”
This actually is true of the general rating system for movies as well. Violence is considered more acceptable than exposed skin. I agree with you that this is absurd.November 24, 2008 8:53 pm at 8:53 pm #626185jewishfeminist02Member
“20+ years of violent games being played by kids all over the world has pretty much disproven any knee-jerk reaction to try and claim that playing violent games causes kids to become violent.”
How does that disprove it? Obviously, not every kid who plays a violent video game is going to become a murderer, but unless you have statistics that show that violence remained constant rather than increasing, you can’t say definitively that there was not an overall trend in terms of an increase in violence.
I’m not saying that you’re wrong; obviously I don’t have statistics that show that violence did increase, but just as I can’t say that I have absolute proof to back up my statement, the same goes for you.
I think, however, that on a level of common sense, it’s intuitive that video games of all kinds send certain subliminal messages, and it’s important to separate out those that are a harmless waste of time from those that can encourage dangerous tendencies in impressionable adolescents.
It’s even more dangerous if you let them start early- I once babysat for a seven-year-old whose parents let him play video games. I watched him play endless rounds of a wrestling game and could see the satisfaction on his face as his virtual character dealt imaginary blows. He was really enjoying watching the other characters get hurt. At one point, he came up against a female character, and when he defeated her, he said vehemently, “That will teach boys not to fight with girls!” Obviously, I took offense at that, but I wasn’t going to debate a seven-year-old! Anyway, the point is that I could tell he was really investing himself in the game and taking real pleasure out of the violence, and that is where it gets dangerous. I’m not saying that he’s going to be violent when he gets older, but I think he is naturally more predisposed to violence than a seven-year-old who doesn’t play these types of games.November 24, 2008 8:57 pm at 8:57 pm #626186
anon: Yes? You just quoted me twice.
noitallmr: The newest and most realistic game to date is Far Cry 2, which was just released, Here’s a screenshot: http://i293.photobucket.com/albums/mm60/XzN-Staff/Far_Cry_2_Pics_46-1.jpg
Incredible graphics, but does it look like it could actually be a photograph?
But thats not the point.November 24, 2008 9:04 pm at 9:04 pm #626187
jewishfeminist02: I agree, a child of seven shouldnt be playing a wrestling game. But give him a sport, puzzle or adventure game and thats time well spent.
As for statistics: http://arstechnica.com/news.ars/post/20050815-5205.html
And this is also interesting reading on the subject: http://culturalpolicy.uchicago.edu/conf2001/papers/goldstein.htmlNovember 24, 2008 10:03 pm at 10:03 pm #626188jewishfeminist02Member
There you go: sports games are great, and puzzle games even more so because they’re intellectually stimulating. But this thread is titled “How Do Violent PC Games Affect Our Kids?” I would most definitely not support a child of any age playing a violent game.November 24, 2008 10:56 pm at 10:56 pm #626189feivelParticipant
“They don’t create an inclination to violence. They may bring out violent tendencies that already existed”
all human beings have violent tendencies within them,
even the extremely pleasant, polite, and kind germans
“They may bring out violent tendencies”
this is not a good thing.November 24, 2008 11:15 pm at 11:15 pm #626190TOHIGHSCHOOLGUYMember
no question that it has been scientifically proven that they bring out innate violent tendencies. However, I think there needs to be guidlines, as kids do need an outlet. and although most people will disagree with me, there is plenty of kosher secular entertainment out there, you just have to find itNovember 25, 2008 1:07 am at 1:07 am #626191bigmoParticipant
I have a lot of past experience in video gaming, and i say that it is extremely addictive, preoccupying the kid’s mind for a while. Especially violent games. Games such as Halo, Doom, and the like cause kids to imitate the “cool moves” displayed by their on-screen character, no matter how “cartoony” or violent it is. Again, i have personally experienced this, and B”H I was able to pull out before it consumed my life totally. It blocked much learning, among many other negative effects.November 25, 2008 1:11 am at 1:11 am #626192bigmoParticipant
Additionally, my Rebbi told me a story about R’ Boruch Ber Liebowitz who cried that he couldn’t understand fully a Tosfos because he once saw two Polish youths fighting, causing some tumah to enter his neshama. How much more so these violent, crude games!!November 25, 2008 1:14 am at 1:14 am #626193Ashrecha YisroelParticipant
Good going bigmo. Stay away from those games if they disturb your learning, which they almost always WILL.November 25, 2008 1:17 am at 1:17 am #626194JDsaysLOLMember
now all violent games are diff ESRB rates the gamesd and gives description 4 the rating- sometimes its not just violence but other things what shouldnt b in any jewish home–so i would say plain violence isnt bad it just might make thing kid act with a little more violenence sooner and yes i totally a RPG is good 4 the thinking and excitingNovember 25, 2008 1:24 am at 1:24 am #626195illini07Member
anon for this:
It’s not so in the UK. You will see a lot more exposed skin or what we would consider “adult topics” on TV, but violence is more taboo.November 25, 2008 2:12 am at 2:12 am #626196yankdownunderMember
Thank you bigmo and Ashrecha Yisroel you are both 100% correct. These violent Video Games give fuel to the Evil Inclination!November 25, 2008 6:52 am at 6:52 am #626197abcdParticipant
Here’s what the research on the topic indicates:
John P Murray. The American Behavioral Scientist. Thousand Oaks: Apr 2008. Vol. 51, Iss. 8; pg. 1212
Fifty years of research on the effect of TV violence on children leads to the inescapable conclusion that viewing media violence is related to increases in aggressive attitudes, values, and behaviors. The changes in aggression are both short term and long term, and these changes may be mediated by neurological changes in the young viewer. The effects of media violence are both real and strong and are confirmed by the careful reviews of research evidence by various scientific and professional organizations that are concerned with children’s mental health and development. [PUBLICATION ABSTRACT]
Short-term and Long-term Effects of Violent Media on Aggression in Children and Adults
Brad J Bushman, L Rowell Huesmann. Archives of Pediatrics & Adolescent Medicine. Chicago: Apr 2006. Vol. 160, Iss. 4; pg. 348, 5 pgs
To test whether the results of the accumulated studies on media violence and aggressive behavior are consistent with the theories that have evolved to explain the effects. We tested for the existence of both short-term and long-term effects for aggressive behavior. We also tested the theory-driven hypothesis that short-term effects should be greater for adults and long-term effects should be greater for children. Meta-analysis. Children younger than 18 years and adults. Main Exposures: Violent media, including TV, movies, video games, music, and comic books. Measures of aggressive behavior, aggressive thoughts, angry feelings, physiological arousal (eg, heart rate, blood pressure), and helping behavior. Effect size estimates were combined using meta-analytic procedures. As expected, the short-term effects of violent media were greater for adults than for children whereas the long-term effects were greater for children than for adults. The results also showed that there were overall modest but significant effect sizes for exposure to media violence on aggressive behaviors, aggressive thoughts, angry feelings, arousal levels, and helping behavior. The results are consistent with the theory that short-term effects are mostly due to the priming of existing well-encoded scripts, schemas, or beliefs, which adults have had more time to encode. In contrast, long-term effects require the learning (encoding) of scripts, schemas, or beliefs. Children can encode new scripts, schemas, and beliefs via observational learning with less interference and effort than adults.November 26, 2008 2:35 am at 2:35 am #626198chasid-of-HashemMember
Say what you want but you can spot a child who is exposed to TV,movies or video games a mile away. It manifests its self in their language, actions and reactions. A few years ago my younger brother, who is not exposed to any such media, was playing with a gun shaped object. Instead of saying” pow pow” he said… “shpritz shpritz” he obviously associated the shape with something he was most familiar with, in this case, a spray nozzle.
The point is that parents who condone such forms of entertainment are doing their children a tremendous disservice. It rots brain cells, kills imagination and promotes negative behavior. But hey, if it “babysits” their young ones then why not?
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