Home › Forums › Inspiration / Mussar › how do you improve your middos?
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February 3, 2011 2:38 pm at 2:38 pm #594753hanibParticipant
What techniques do you have and/or what books have helped you improve your middos?
February 3, 2011 4:08 pm at 4:08 pm #747368mytakeMemberDepends for what…
I think for Tznius (and yes, tznius is a midda, and NOT a set of halachos!), Gila Manolson’s “Inside/Outside” is excellent!
February 3, 2011 4:38 pm at 4:38 pm #747369Be HappyParticipantSorry Mytake – there are definitely halochos of Tzinius as well.
February 3, 2011 4:49 pm at 4:49 pm #747370mytakeMemberYes, there are. Tznius itself is a middah, though.
February 3, 2011 5:14 pm at 5:14 pm #747371apushatayidParticipantMesilas Yesharim and Orchos Tzadikim are 2 classic “books” that can help you improve and refine your middos.
February 3, 2011 5:27 pm at 5:27 pm #747372dunnoMemberFor some things it was a conscious decision that I wanted to change. I knew what I wanted to achieve and focusing on the goal helped. Other things just evolved with time.
February 3, 2011 5:30 pm at 5:30 pm #747373hanibParticipanti also think that gila manolson’s book is great.
how have you used mesilas yesharim, orchos tzadikkim to actually improve yourself? does anyone have a technique, book, or method that they have actually used that has helped them improve? (i guess the middos i’m more thinking about is anger, savlanus, but even all middos). thanks.
February 3, 2011 5:33 pm at 5:33 pm #747374hanibParticipantdunno, i just read your message, after i typed my previous message. i’ve had some things evolve over time, like tznius, but how did you utilize focusing on your goal to help with other kinds of middos?
February 3, 2011 5:48 pm at 5:48 pm #747375kavod hatorahParticipanthang around gedolim and look how they act! if you cant read biographies.
February 3, 2011 6:01 pm at 6:01 pm #747376simchashachaimMemberKeep a journal each day.
start out by making goals for yourself of what middos you want to grow in. Then each day, write about where/what you felt you grew in, what you didn’t do so well at, and why you think your results were like that.
It could also be used as a calming down period before going to bed.
You will see that your days are filled with opportunities just waiting to be grabbed. You will probably also feel more accomplished when the day is done.
February 3, 2011 6:28 pm at 6:28 pm #747377dunnoMemberbinahyeseira
There was a middah I was trying to work on (not tznius). I looked at people that mastered it already and realized I wanted to be like them in that respect.
February 3, 2011 6:30 pm at 6:30 pm #747378HaLeiViParticipantYes, by making up your mind that you want to behave a certain way. You keep on checking yourself. When you catch yourself going against the behavior you wanted, admonish yourself quietly and reaffirm your determination to behave differently in the future. Eventualy, your reflexes and subconscious thought patterns will get the hang of the new approach.
Your brain is an office. Your consciousness is the boss, or king. All the thoughts that go on are the secretaries. The conscious you decides what to keep and what to throw out. When the secretaries see what kind of thoughts you act upon and accept and which thoughts are rejected and shunned, they start producing the kind that gets approved.
This works best when you toss or act upon a thought right away, but it also works in retrospect.
A Midda like Chessed is easier in the sense that it is a normal decision to help or not to help. Something like anger, that only happens when you get angry, is much harder to work on. Therefore, there has to be a bigger focus on telling yourself the correct way of thinking before scenarios, and after them, to constantly judge yourself.
Hatzlacha.
February 3, 2011 6:32 pm at 6:32 pm #747379mytakeMemberbinahyeseira
I believe that when it comes to particular techniques and tips on working on middos-everyone finds something else that works for them.
Personally, when it comes to anger, the best thing that works for me was programming my mind to realize that every disappointment/aggravation comes from Hashem. Once this is REAL in your mind, but seriously real, anger management is much easier. Try getting angry then. It’s much harder.
Hatzlacha!
February 3, 2011 6:43 pm at 6:43 pm #747380apushatayidParticipantHow to improve based on orchos tzadikim and mesilas yesharim? Understand what they say, take what they say seriously and undertake to try and improve. Pick one middah and try and work on it, say for 2 hours a day, and build from there.
When I was a bachur in yeshiva, coming on time to davening was not an area where I excelled. On the advice of the R’Y, I chose one day a week that I would always be in the beis medrash by 7:40 (start time was 7:45). I chose wednesday (after much thought out and reasoned analysis). It wasn’t easy, especially during bein hazmanim, but I made it an entire year without being late (I had my shirt tucked in most days!). I added a second day and so on. It works this way with everything. Get angry? Decide that from 10-12 tuesdays, you won’t get angry. It isn’t easy, but
It grows on you and gets easier with time.
February 3, 2011 7:50 pm at 7:50 pm #747381Lomed Mkol AdamMemberGo for therapy. Even healthy people can benefit from therapy sessions through gaining more self awareness of their weak points. This way they can then naturally improve themselves in those areas.
February 3, 2011 8:10 pm at 8:10 pm #747382truth be toldMemberI like apushatayid’s idea. Pick a time, even a very short time, where you’ll not get angry etc, no matter what! even if it’s 10 minutes at first. It’ll make a huge difference, it’ll put you in control.
It’s easier to finish all of shas than to reverse a middah. But it can be done, and its the reason we’re here
February 3, 2011 8:11 pm at 8:11 pm #747383mytakeMemberLomed Mkol Adam
Please tell me you don’t believe that therapists really know how to help a person work on middos! (Unless, of course, there is a serious emotional issue that is preventing them from working on it)
An emotionally and mentally well-balanced person should be able to work on middos with a healthy dose of hishtadlus + tefillah.
Please keep therapists out of this. If they were needed, than the Chovos Halvovos would of recommended them.
Again, this is only for healthy people.
February 3, 2011 8:36 pm at 8:36 pm #747385truth be toldMemberLomed Mkol Adam:
“There is no way to know if therapy actually works”. Heard from a well-known frum therapist
February 3, 2011 8:37 pm at 8:37 pm #747386hanibParticipantwow! you’ve all got great ideas. i agree with you, mytake, that different things will work with different people, though i think a lot of these ideas are great (except for the therapist idea – i don’t have a major problem, just trying to improve my middos – trying to get on to the perfect person thread :).
i really liked what all of you said – keeping a journal, doing 1 day or certain time, picturing someone else (gadol) etc.
Halevi, what you wrote seems really cool – though i think i really have to think about that to see how to use it.
mytake, i think that’s my problem – i know intellectually that things are not really someone else’s fault, but what Hashem has planned for me; but i find it hard to truly feel that emotionally and not get upset. How did you connect the brains to the heart?
Thanks everyone – you’ve really got great ideas.
February 3, 2011 9:17 pm at 9:17 pm #747387mytakeMemberbinahyeseira
Ok, I’m going to try to answer your question, but please know that everything I write is so much easier said than done.
It seems to me that you really do believe that Hashem runs the show, and that in a way, it’s pointless to get angry, because…hey, The Boss said it’s good, so it’s gotta be so, right?
If I read you right, then your question is really: Once I understand that Hashem custom-designed this situation for me (however uncomfortable it may be), how do I internalize it to the extent that I feel it inside?
At this point I usually think to myself: Hashem, I know this is what’s best. But it sucks for me right now, because I don’t know what You know. Please, please, please don’t let this get to me. Help me handle this calmly, because from where I’m seeing things, this is no fun.
Saying this makes my knowledge all the more real. I don’t only KNOW IN MY HEAD that Hashem made this my problem, but I ACKNOWLEDGE IT (mentally or verbally)and make it a joint effort between Him and me to help me get through this.
You do this enough times, trust me, it’ll be in your heart.
Much Hatzlacha!
February 3, 2011 9:22 pm at 9:22 pm #747388Lomed Mkol AdamMemberMytake: People in this generation are generally not aware of their weak points and the phsycological source of their weakness. This is how therapy works, it makes the individual naturally identify his/her weakness and its source, so that the individual can then have an easy time changing themselves. As the Mishnah says “Shaalas Chacham Chatzi Teshuvah”, and Rabbeinu Yonah explains that when you get inner recognition of your shortcomings then you are already halfway through rectifying it.
APY,TBT: Your idea for solving anger is not well understood, since one cannot work on controlling anger unless he/she is actually in the midst of experiencing those feelings of anger, [which cannot be preset to activate]. IMO anger is a very general feeling which can be caused to different people from different factors. So if someone wishes to work on controlling their anger, he/she must first analyze and identify which incidents cause them to feel angry. Then, they should work on logical problem solving ideas to similar situations should they arise again. This way when that similar incident occurs again [and they feel angry], they will already be prepared on how to work out the situation in a practical way and defuse the tensions, so that the feelings of anger can be kept in check w/o acting upon them in an irrational way.
February 3, 2011 9:31 pm at 9:31 pm #747389dan502MemberI see that you are struggling with something that most people in the world struggle with. it is said that the heart and the mind are the two things that are the furthest from from each other. If im not mistaken i think the “malbim” in the begining of “mishlei” says that the purpose of mashalim are to bring concepts down to the heart. This a very big tool in limud hamusar to help bridge the gap between your heart and mind. You can for example use this tool in your situation by visualizing if G-d punched you would you get upset at Him? I dont think so (at least i wouldnt)… then ask yourself why you get upset when he sends a shliach to punch you. by constantly visualizing this it could help you internalize this concept of emunah. you have to use a mashal that works for you!!!!! it should be noted that you should do this work way before you get angry maybe even set time aside every day to to visualize this. with the help of hashem you should be zocheh to reach shlaimus.
February 3, 2011 9:56 pm at 9:56 pm #747390mytakeMemberLomed Mkol Adam
The Torah is here to make us aware of our weaknesses in this generation, and in every generation. So much for identifying our weaknesses.
The baalei mussar and chazal understand the sources of these weaknesses better than the therapists understand their ABC’s. So much for understanding the sources of our weaknesses.
Please don’t insult the baalei mussar by insinuating that they meant a therapist when they said chacham.
Don’t forget: Chazal studied the behavior of a human being by reading the Manufacterer’s manual, the Torah. And a manufacturer knows its product best.
Based on that, they wrote the best “self-help” book known to mankind.
February 3, 2011 10:09 pm at 10:09 pm #747391truth be toldMemberLomed Mkol Adam:
As the Mishnah says “Shaalas Chacham Chatzi Teshuvah”, and Rabbeinu Yonah explains that when you get inner recognition of your shortcomings then you are already halfway through rectifying it.
There is no such a Mishna. And certainly, no rabbeinu Yonah explaining said “mishnah”. I did not bother reading anything else you wrote, once you’re willing to falsify mishnayos to make “your” way the right way
February 3, 2011 10:53 pm at 10:53 pm #747392Lomed Mkol AdamMemberTBT: Sorry, I thought it was a Maamar in Pirkei Avos . Maybe you can help me with identifying its source, since it definitely originates from our Sifrei Kodesh. And, I heard this Rabbeinu Yonah quoted from Shaarei Teshuva.
Mytake: The fact is, if someone has a serious issue of being inclined to dominate other people, then he will never be really helped out with modifying this middah unless he addresses it through therapy. Which Rosh Yeshiva has influence over his talmidim’s bad middos? Believe me, plenty of these masmidim w/ bad middos sit and learn mussar sefarim during mussar seder, and it barely does anything for them.
February 4, 2011 8:55 am at 8:55 am #747393hanibParticipantthanks again!
mytake, i liked your explanation, and will try top do it.
dan: interesting, what you said was similar to mytake, except mytake used talking to oneself and you used visual technique; i’ll try the 2 together, im yirtza Hashem.
lomed: first of all, most people would consider me pretty calm. i know that i have work to do, but generally in places where it’s considered “normal”. i agree just reading mesilas yesharim won’t help much which is why i asked my question and got various answers. although therapy may or may not help, it would definitely be extremely costly and time-consuming to work out all of one’s middos in therapy. though, what you said about thinking beforehand of what might upset me and imagining how i can handle it, seems like a good idea also.
February 9, 2011 1:50 am at 1:50 am #747394sm29ParticipantA good way to improve is to take time every day to reflect on something to improve on and then work on it. Also, what helps is to be careful when in certain situations. Like when we are upset or feeling impatient, try to hold back from doing what we shouldn’t.
February 9, 2011 2:52 am at 2:52 am #747395ShrekParticipantimagine yourself with the middah you want to acquire/improve. How would you look different (facial expression, posture, etc)? Imagine yourself in a challenging situation–how would you act if this midda was better developed? I think the midda becomes part of you more easily if you can form an image of it in your brain.
February 9, 2011 5:20 am at 5:20 am #747396smartcookieMemberI like this thread!
February 9, 2011 8:10 am at 8:10 am #747397hanibParticipantsmart cookie – thanks. me too.
i really like the things people are saying. sm and shrek thanks for the good advice.
the more i hear, the more i can internalize, and it reminds me each day to work on myself.
February 9, 2011 4:29 pm at 4:29 pm #747398mytakeMemberAny ideas for working on procrastination?
February 9, 2011 5:42 pm at 5:42 pm #747399HealthParticipantMytake – Mesilas Yeshorim talks about Zerizos.
February 11, 2011 7:37 am at 7:37 am #747400hanibParticipantmytake – i’ll get back to you after i finish everything else i’m doing. 😉 (sorry, i couldn’t resist.)
February 11, 2011 7:45 am at 7:45 am #747401hanibParticipanta person who hasn’t fixed a middah can’t give others advice; so instead i’ll tell you what i do and you just do the opposite.
– when have a bunch of stuff to do, always make sure to check your e-mails. respond to them
– call your friends and/or relative for quick 5 min. chat, which then lasts an hour
– read mishpacha magazine or whatever newspaper you get right away, especially if you have something very important to do
– GO ON THE CR!!!!!!
– and always, always do what is urgent and never spend time on the important, but non-urgent things. if it’s important enough, one day it will become urgent
🙂
February 11, 2011 4:37 pm at 4:37 pm #747402mytakeMemberbinahyeseira
Thanks for the laugh!!!
February 15, 2011 8:32 am at 8:32 am #747403hanibParticipantmytake:
anytime.
February 15, 2011 2:39 pm at 2:39 pm #747404ZeesKiteParticipantOne way I found to improve midos is to join the CR!
February 15, 2011 3:35 pm at 3:35 pm #747406oomisParticipantPick one at a time, or a general category (like working on anger issues, and trying to control your temper), and just work on that. Commit to doing it for ONE DAY. The next day commit to doing it for another day, until you have changed that middah for two months, by which time it should be ingrained in you. It works for me.
February 15, 2011 6:00 pm at 6:00 pm #747407aries2756ParticipantOne way to improve your middos is to go out in the real world and put others first. Help people. Look around you and you will find that people all around you needs some sort of help. Hold a door open, help someone with their bags. Help someone carry the stroller down the steps. Say good morning, offer a smile. Walk someone to shul. Offer someone a ride, say a kapital tehilim and pay attention to what your saying.
Use the two breath method. Take two breaths before responding so your brain has a chance to catch up to your mouth. Think before you speak “how will what I am about to say be received? Maybe I shouldn’t say it?” Remember to say “please” and “thank you” and mean it. Do things you are supposed to do before you are asked to do them.
If you don’t think to much about it and just go out and do it, you will be surprised how much better you will feel about yourself.
March 6, 2011 5:01 am at 5:01 am #747408mw13Participantbump
March 6, 2011 9:59 pm at 9:59 pm #747409hanibParticipantdon’t just bump, say something.
ok. i will. i’ve been noticing what’s given me a “charged” feeling inside, and i’ve seen that usually the most important thing for me is to eat and sleep – i can respond much better when i do that.
what has helped me is what people said is that when i have my first reaction, to really think that Hashem sent this to me. Later, when i’m calmer (having slept and/or eaten), i can understand why the person said what they did and try to see where they’re coming from (even though they’re still totally wrong, of course) 😉
March 6, 2011 10:01 pm at 10:01 pm #747410hanibParticipanti’m looking to start a new sefer. what do you guys recommend?
here are my thoughts:
Derech Hashem
Mictav Me’eliyahu
Chovos Halevavos
i’ve done parts of all of them, but want to systematically learn one, doing little bit at a time.
any thoughts?
March 6, 2011 11:31 pm at 11:31 pm #747411ZeesKiteParticipantHow to improve your midos?
By having ‘Loud and obnoxious neighbors’, Tznius Issues, ‘ISSUES WITH LANDLORDS’, Spouses, Dating… and etc., and dealing like a metch, or better yet lifnim mishuras hadin. We have all the possibilities listed in the opening screen (CR), go down the list one by one & watch yourself be elevated. No seforim necessary!
Now, where is my nasty landlord? I wanna give him a hug…
March 7, 2011 1:50 am at 1:50 am #747412charliehallParticipantMesilat Yesharim, Orchot Tzadikim, and Chovot HaLevavot are priceless. But they require close study, not just a superficial read. 12 step recovery programs apply the same principles.
March 7, 2011 8:20 am at 8:20 am #747413hanibParticipantare you saying that since it’s so hard to study classic sefarim, therefore should do 12 step instead?!? and it’s truly the same principles???????
zeeskite – and how easy is it to hug your nasty landlord? besides, if it’s the man, i would imagine you’d be violating “shomer negiah” 😉
March 7, 2011 2:56 pm at 2:56 pm #747414ZeesKiteParticipantbinahyeseira: Is there a feminine term to ‘landlord’?
March 7, 2011 3:01 pm at 3:01 pm #747415ZeesKiteParticipantActually what I wrote was based on some of Rabbi Miller’s thoughts. He writes that all people around us, all interactions are set up from above, for our perfection.
I don’t have his tapes now, nor his many seforim, but his shiurim/tapes made a lasting impression on me. (I don’t want to say how old I am, so let’s say Mommy took me along)
March 7, 2011 10:57 pm at 10:57 pm #747416charliehallParticipant“are you saying that since it’s so hard to study classic sefarim, therefore should do 12 step instead?!? and it’s truly the same principles???????”
Yes, they are the same principles. But 12 step programs are for people with specific issues. If you drink too much, go to Alcoholics Anonymous. If you are addicted to other drugs, go to Narcotics Anonymous or Cocaine Anonymous or Marijuana Anonymous as appropriate. If you eat too much, go to Overeaters Anonymous. If you can’t stop gambling, go to Gamblers Anonymous. If you can’t control your use of credit cards, go to Debtors Anonymous. If an alcoholic or drug addict is making your life miserable, go to Al-Anon or Nar-Anon. Don’t think for a second that those are “easy” programs any more than immersing yourself in the classic mussar works is “easy”. But the rewards are almost unlimited.
March 7, 2011 11:39 pm at 11:39 pm #747417ItcheSrulikMemberAnother approach is that of Torah machziran l’mutav. That is, in addition to learning sefarim specifically on tikkun hamiddos, learn things that deal with the greatness of God and the greatness of man (gadlus haborei and gadlus ha’adam) and from there the yetzer tov asserts itself so that you do what — in the words of the introduction to Missilas Yesharim — “everyone already knows is the right thing but still abstain from doing because of laziness or lack of will.”
This approach is discussed at great length in many sefarim, particularly chabad chassidus. I’m obviously not qualified to say which approach is better. When I finish with either one I’ll let you know. 😉
March 8, 2011 12:23 am at 12:23 am #747418charliehallParticipant“When I finish with either one I’ll let you know.”
I doubt I’ll ever be finished ;).
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