August 15, 2013 9:05 pm at 9:05 pm #971040
“Read the list the R’Y of BMG is on it, If you dont consider him a gadol , I cant help you”
1. Obviously ZD holds that anyone who becomes Rosh Yeshiva of a big Yeshiva is automatically a Gadol. Pretty fanatical viewpoint.
2. You obviously don’t understand what Gedolim are at all, and you obviously don’t understand the Chareidi Hashkafa at all.
Once again, you’ve shown that your OP was a straw man and totally irrelevant.August 15, 2013 9:54 pm at 9:54 pm #971041DovidZSchwartzMember
I don’t go into these chat rooms at all but the title of this thread grabbed me from the front page of Yeshiva World.
The kefira that’s dressed up as some kind of street-smarts on this thread is as transparent as it is nauseating. You losers who love to poke holes in people’s emunas chachomim were saying the same garbage by Weprin and Fidler. I don’t know who you’re trying to impress, but nobody reading these lines should be misled for a second to think that its normative Orthodox thinking to slander the Rabbonim and the askanim who support Erick Salgado.
Most likely these guys are plants and stooges for the off-color candidates who are going to be hamstrung at the polls when the Orthodox community comes together lkvod Shem Shomayim, bezras Hashem, to prove that we place our faith in our Torah, our chachamim and Avinu Malkeinu alone.August 16, 2013 1:57 am at 1:57 am #971042
Its one thing to endorse Erick Salgado its another thing to say its a halacha to support him.
While I do not support Christine Quinn, I cant stand her, it is very likely she will win, Nobody really thinks Salgado will win. He doesnt even show up at the polls and isnt invited to the debates. Even if every frum jew votes for him, and nobody else does he will lose.
When the election is over and if everyone supports Salgado and he loses, the community as a whole will lose.
If Quinn does win its important that we have contacts in her adminstration, we dont want her to think well they didnt vote for me so I wont go out for them and only do the minimum.August 16, 2013 2:02 am at 2:02 am #971043
FYI Most of those Rabbanim dont even live in NYC.Many of them were from Rockland or NJ
I think its actually the majority of themAugust 16, 2013 2:26 am at 2:26 am #971044
Here is the latest poll on YWN
I dont even see Salgado on the poll resultsAugust 16, 2013 3:58 am at 3:58 am #971045
I don’t want to say anything to you that may be misconstrued as a personal attack. (I mean that.) I have no idea who you are, so I can’t judge you. (Probably shouldn’t even if I knew who you were.)
This is what’s called an open, intellectually honest, discussion. People are free to voice their opinions and beliefs, so long as they are not attacking anyone or causing genuine animosity. As has been stated many times here recently, people who would silence the dissenting voices largely don’t have adequate responses to said voices. If they did, they wouldn’t care to respond.August 16, 2013 5:08 am at 5:08 am #971046
I see you conveniently ignore the points I made.
You can posts a hundred political posts about this, and you may even be right in them. I don’t know because I live in E”Y and am not into NY politics.
But the fact remains that you started this thread with an inflammatory title which had absolutely no basis in fact. Being a Rabbi does not make one a Gadol. Being a Rosh Yeshivah does not make on a Gadol.
It would be nice if you would show strength of character and admit you made a mistake.August 16, 2013 5:10 am at 5:10 am #971047
Actually, this thread is about as intellectually dishonest as they come. See my posts in the thread.August 16, 2013 5:29 am at 5:29 am #971048DovidZSchwartzMember
there are 1 million registered Democrats who are Latino. That’s approximately 30% of the Democratic electorate. Erick Salgado is building momentum in the Latino communities by old fashioned speaking, meeting and word of mouth, and not by money and political connections.
A united Jewish vote behind Erick Salgado will send a clear message to whomever wins that they have to take our people seriously. Giving ourselves away to the apparent winner is one reason why the current administration feels empowered to openly display contempt for our values by publicly mocking bris milah and interfering in our daily lives in other areas.
If you ask how can the Rabbis call this a mitzvah, youre stuck in the old world mentality of seeing political matters as dealing with a feudal duke or czar. The power of voting places the well being of the state in the hands of the citizens. For religious Jewish neighborhoods to throw support behind candidates who publicly declare that our values are hateful or barbaric creates a real issue of Chilul Hashem. This is halachic question.
The psak halacha supporting Erick Salgado can clarify the question about whether its considered an acceptable approach to make deals with politicians who espouse public policies that are antithetical to the Torah in order to secure whatever “benefits” they might promise us once elected.August 16, 2013 5:54 am at 5:54 am #971049
It is not intellectually dishonest at all, even if you are correct in asserting that the OP may have been misleading.
Let me understand this. It is ok (imperative, actually) to ask your Rabbi your Niddah, kashrus, maaseh umatan, etc., questions because you trust that he can correctly convey the Torah’s opinion on such matters. You choose this Rabbi because his opinion matters to you. You sit, and make your children sit, through his hashkafic discourses because you trust that his hashkafa is correct. Then he gives an opinion in hashkafa / halacha to which you disagree, and you feel comfortable with the notion that you don’t need to listen?! Talk about intellectual dishonesty! Can’t pick and choose.
Since you seem to know, please describe the definition of a “Gadol”. Because odds are that whoever it is that you describe or suggest is not universally accepted as a “Gadol”. Pretty good odds. Noone is universally accepted. So we ALL choose who we listen to for halachic issues and spiritual guidance. I guess it’s safe to say that you don’t hold anyone on that list up to your standards.August 16, 2013 3:50 pm at 3:50 pm #971050oomisParticipant
I vote with my conscience. I am sure that my conscience, having been raised with Torah ideals, is secure enough to pick a candidate who most rabbonim would agree is a good choice. I do not require a Rov to tell me how to think, B”H. I do require a Rov to tell me how to be mekayeim mitzvos in which I do not know the clear derech. That is why I ask Shailas from time to time.
But my Rov’s political beliefs do NOT have to necessarily be in concert with my own, though they MIGHT be. He could be a political Liberal and I might be a Conservative. So should I follow his liberal views and ascribe them to Halachic mandates???? (FTR, my Rov is not so liberal these days).
Rationally thinking adults can all arrive at the same conclusion without the need for a Rov to decide for them, though a discussion with him could surely help concretize our own thoughts, and I think that can be a good thing.
If we read the paper, listen to the candidates as they debate, look at their voting record, etc. we can make up our own minds. I do not believe that it is a given that all political decisions should be in the purview of Rabbonim. If they are politically aware, they can surely help to guide the thought process, but that is a far cry from demanding absolute fealty to their opinion and calling it Halacha.August 16, 2013 5:09 pm at 5:09 pm #971051rabbiofberlinParticipant
For_real: You are not comparing equal matters. You listen to the psak of a Rov concerning kashrus,etc. because he KNOWS the halacho- NOT because (as you write) ‘his opinion matters to you” A psak halocho ,based on shulchan aruch, has nothing to do with opinion and everything to do with how one sees the halocho. What is at stake here is a OPINION on a matter that cannot be found in halocho- hence the flexibility of not adhering to it.August 16, 2013 5:32 pm at 5:32 pm #971052apushatayidParticipant
I think the shiur is 4 mil. However, only 1 mil if it will make you go backwards.August 16, 2013 5:36 pm at 5:36 pm #971053apushatayidParticipant
“The letter was signed by Rav Avrohom Yaakov Nelkelbaum, Rosh Yeshivas Mir; Rav Benheoil, Rav of Bnei Yosef and Rosh Yeshiva of Mikdash Melech; Rav Elyahu Ben Haim, Rav of Yesodai Mahsad (5000 congregants) in Queens; Rav Shlomo Tzvi Stern, Debreziner Rav of BP; Rav Amram Klein, Ungar Rav; Rav Moshe Green, Rosh Yeshiva of monsey and Rav Yisroel Neuman, Rosh Yeshiva Lakewood.”
If none of the above are my Rav, Rosh Yeshiva, Posek or Rebbe, what aveira have I committed if I vote for a different candidate? What aveira has my own Rav committed when he suggests voiting for a different candidate?August 18, 2013 2:42 am at 2:42 am #971054
Rabbi of Berlin,
I completely agree with you. My point was that it is a perfectly legitimate question for someone to ask. I trust my Rabbi for almost everything else, at what point am I not required to listen? Most people use their Rov for hashkafic issues as well as halachic. That someone would consider this a hashkafic question is not far-fetched.
(For how I truly feel about such matters, see the “frum” thread.)
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