November 29, 2010 7:17 pm at 7:17 pm #593256
Imagine the following:
Your after a certain shidduch for years. Its something which suits you perfectly. However the girl is not ready for you at the moment (NOT FOR PERSONAL REASONS).
You finally meet your second choice and are going out for a very long time. A few days before you decide to propose, you get word that the shidduch of ‘your dreams’ is now ready to date you.
Considering that you are lukewarm about the second ONLY because you thought the first was a goner, how do you handle it??November 29, 2010 8:50 pm at 8:50 pm #714114
Wow,that is a heavy shayla.Perhaps someone like Rebitzen Esther Jungreis could guide you. My guess is that if you are always gonna tell yourself “coulda,woulda,shoulda”if you stay with girl #2,it’s not gonna be so simple….November 29, 2010 9:01 pm at 9:01 pm #714115cshapiroMember
i would say ask your rabbi!!!November 29, 2010 9:02 pm at 9:02 pm #714117Feif UnParticipant
If you are not 100% sure you want to marry someone, then don’t do it! Marriage is not something to fool around about.November 29, 2010 9:05 pm at 9:05 pm #714118
Forget loyalty where is your bitachon???????
We forget that Hashem has a plan for us and it is not necessarily the plan that we had in mind! If things are going well with the shidduch you are in why risk it? What makes you so sure that if you dump it and go for the other one it will work out? You don’t have any guarantee that it will. It might be your dream date or dream shidduch but what makes you think you are the other person’s dream date or dream shidduch? For them you can be just another name on the list. But for the person you are currently dating you are the real deal.
People in shidduchim need to realize that when you are in middle of a shidduch you need to have blinders on. You can’t be looking at anyone else and you can’t be considering or thinking about anyone else. The rest of the world needs to become a blur. The only one you have to concentrate on is the other person in the shidduch. You need to decide if that person is going to be a good spouse and a good parent for your children. Is this person someone you can wake up every morning with? Does this person have the qualities you are looking for? Does this person share the same values with you? Are you attracted to this person? Can you live this person? Can you build a true home with him/her?
Forget about other prospects they are only a “possibility” the one you are with is a true probability and that is what counts. And please don’t forget if you hurt this person you are involved with that too has many consequences. Don’t propose to this girl if you don’t feel you can love her and make a true marriage with her. But don’t break off with her because you think there is something better out there for you. YOU are a fool if you do. You might be giving up the best thing in your life and throwing away your bashert that Hashem has sent you on a foolish whim that you fantasized about.
EDITEDNovember 29, 2010 9:05 pm at 9:05 pm #714119telegrokMember
If you were only “lukewarm” about the second, you should not have been proposing. Forget about not being fair to you, it’s not fair to the girl.
How do expect to maintain a marriage if you’re only “lukewarm” and there while your pining after someone else?
If that’s the case, work it out before you drag someone into your emotional morass.November 29, 2010 9:12 pm at 9:12 pm #714121gavra_at_workParticipant
If you were only “lukewarm” about the second, you should not have been proposing. Forget about not being fair to you, it’s not fair to the girl.
AMEN! Tell it like it is, brother!
And you wonder why guys get divorced. It (based on this post, in some cases) is because they never really liked the first one in the first place.November 29, 2010 9:14 pm at 9:14 pm #714122
You seem to be forgetting that we have to do our Hishtadlus when it comes to shidduchim as well.
When I say ‘lukewarm’ I mean relative to the fact that his first choice was the shidduch he was after to begin with.
NOTHING is 100 per cent…you cant be that sure about anything!!November 29, 2010 9:15 pm at 9:15 pm #714123Fast ForwardMember
I am with Telegrok. If I knew I was your second choice and you cannot get another girl out of your head, quite frankly, I would be well rid of you. Sorry if that sounds harsh, but who wants a marriage like that?November 29, 2010 9:26 pm at 9:26 pm #714125not IMember
Just because a girl looks like a dream girl, she may not actually be one!!
I can’t beleive i am the 1st to say this here! You could say no to the girl you are about to propose to.. Hurt her terribly just to go out with this amazing, stupendous girl where it could crash after 2 dates!!
Once someone is ready they have to take EVERYONE else out of the picture and out of the mind!!!November 29, 2010 10:08 pm at 10:08 pm #714126telegrokMember
“When I say ‘lukewarm’ I mean relative to the fact that his first choice was the shidduch he was after to begin with.”
I understand – but, part of emotional maturity is letting go of the unattainable and moving on.
A young man should not be on the verge of marriage while he still wishes that he would be seeing a different girl under the chupah.
It is OK to say, “I would have preferred a girl who bakes better cakes,” or “I would have preferred a girl who can carry a tune.” But the proper approach is to recognize that his kallah burns toast, or sings like a dying frog, and to then say, “This is the person, with all of her quirks and faults, with whom I want to build a home.”
Not to stand there and glance backwards to see if #1 will burst through the door exclaiming, “I’m here!”November 29, 2010 10:27 pm at 10:27 pm #714127
He didnt glance back at all! Thats my point. She became attainable.
In fact, I know a case where a very similar dilema came forth. Actually the boy was already ENGAGED and broke off…November 29, 2010 10:40 pm at 10:40 pm #714128bptParticipant
You would consider partner B while involved with partner A?
EDITEDNovember 29, 2010 10:47 pm at 10:47 pm #714129myfriendMember
In fact, I know a case where a very similar dilema came forth. Actually the boy was already ENGAGED and broke off…
He committed a serious aveira. He better hope she was moichel him completely.November 29, 2010 11:57 pm at 11:57 pm #714130
I am astounded at this question. Why are you getting engaged to someone you are only lukewarm about? Does this really happen?
You say a guy did this after he was engaged? Well, the second girl is lucky she didn’t get stuck with a lunatic. I hope she thanked him.November 30, 2010 12:00 am at 12:00 am #714131oomisParticipant
If you are already wondering “what if” then you would be doing a disservice to the girl you are seeing presently. No one should be the “Plan B.” I am not saying it would work out with the first girl, but the second girl deserves your FULL attention, and if you cannot give it, then you owe it to her to let her find someone who has no Plan A waiting in the wings.November 30, 2010 3:54 am at 3:54 am #714132
Aishes Chayil, No I did not forget, I would hope that HE did his histadlus when he agreed to go out with Choice #2. I would hope that he understood when he agreed to go out with choice #2, that we don’t always get what we want not because we don’t deserve it but because it is not want we NEED or what we are supposed to have. Hashem is in charge and HE runs the world. If he is so shallow that he doesn’t get that, or that he doesn’t see the amazing qualities in choice # 2 then he certainly doesn’t deserve her and she is better off without him although she will be terribly hurt at first. He will only see the error of his ways when choice #1 proves to him that he is not her choice #1. You see AC, there is no guarantee that what he wants will work out for him.
Everyone seems perfect on paper until you meet them in person. And everyone seems perfect from afar till you meet them up close. And just because YOU are pining for someone that doesn’t mean they are pining for you. So when YOUR bubble is burst what are you left with? The same hurt feelings and emotions that you caused the other party. And what to do you think happens when you get that date with the perfect shidduch? Her laugh can be really annoying, her parents can be very interfering, she might be very demanding or her parents might be. Things might not fall into place like in the fantasy, etc. So what is the point in chasing after choice #1. It is not a given that it works out. What exactly is the histadlus you are referring to. The Histadlus I am referring to and other posters here are referring to is that you put 100% commitment into the shidduch you are involved in at the moment and you don’t allow “ifs” and “if only’s” to enter the picture!November 30, 2010 6:08 am at 6:08 am #714133
In my opinion this guy sounds incredibly immature. How could he lead a girl on like that?? He would propose to a girl he is unsure about?? that is just horrible, no wonder divorce rate is 52%…I sure hope he breaks up with the “second choice” and take some time off to do some serious sole searching to figure out who he is and what he wants??? and definitely talk it out with his rav, if he has one???November 30, 2010 9:51 am at 9:51 am #714134shlomozalmanMember
For the sake of the girl he is about to propose to, DO NOT propose. It would be a serious transgression for several reasons to go with this “second choice”. Imagine the poor girl entering into a marriage with a husband who is thinking about “the one” that got away.November 30, 2010 9:52 am at 9:52 am #714135
Ok, allow me to clarrify;
He didnt LEAD girl number 2 on!!!
When he concluded that he has no channce with the first, he decided to move on . He was NOT unsure about the second.
Then he was hit with the dilema of going back to someone he thought would be history.November 30, 2010 2:19 pm at 2:19 pm #714136
Aishes Chayil, I think you should know that many couples are lukewarm until they actually get engaged and once they make the commitment that is when things get really heated up. That is because of nerves and fear of commitment. Once you make the commitment and the excitement moves to the next level everything moves to the next level.November 30, 2010 3:02 pm at 3:02 pm #714137dunnoMember
Whoa, give the guy a break. I agree he shouldn’t be proposing to someone he is “lukewarm” about. But the fact that his dream girl is suddenly available changes things. I think he should most definitely date her if possible. What are the rules of double dating at this point? (Don’t shoot me, this is an extreme case!)November 30, 2010 3:47 pm at 3:47 pm #714138
Clarification not accepted. The idea of being ready to marry someone until finding out that someone else may still be available, makes no sense.
It is impossible except for the most immature and petty person, who has no idea what marriage is.November 30, 2010 4:05 pm at 4:05 pm #714139
Aishes chayil(ish chayil).was my suggestion helpful?scroll alllll the way back.November 30, 2010 4:11 pm at 4:11 pm #714140oomisParticipant
There is no dilemma here. If Girl #1 is still available and WILLING to try again, and he has broken up with the second girl, then he should go for it. If, however, it is as you first described it, then he has NOT broken it off with the other girl yet. THAT is the dilemma – how to handle the breakup in such a way as to minimize the pain SHE will feel. But he has to be honest and do it. If he already broke it off, I don’t see a kasha of any kind here.November 30, 2010 4:36 pm at 4:36 pm #714141
Gosh, I think using the word ‘lukewarm’ was my big mistake here, lol.
Please omit the last potion of my post, besides the question of ‘how do you handle it?November 30, 2010 6:09 pm at 6:09 pm #714142
I think that makes it worse. If he is happy with the second, but thinks there is some possibility he would be happier with the first, he is a total lunatic to break off from the second.November 30, 2010 6:34 pm at 6:34 pm #714143gavra_at_workParticipant
Agree with Popa.
He will never be happy, always thinking a better one will come around.
He should take a break from dating and grow up, then try again.November 30, 2010 6:37 pm at 6:37 pm #714144
I hear what your saying.
On the other hand, when you think something is long shot, you have a different attitude about the alternative than you have once the possibility arises again….November 30, 2010 6:39 pm at 6:39 pm #714145
It IS INDEED AISHES…..November 30, 2010 6:42 pm at 6:42 pm #714146bptParticipant
The last line of my post got axed, so let me rephrase:
If person A is still willing to go out with you, knowing you are dropping person B (and only went out with person B, because there was nothing better at the time) then I would say absolutly, go for person A.
You two deserve each other.November 30, 2010 6:50 pm at 6:50 pm #714147cshapiroMember
aishes chayil, put urself in “second choices” shoes for just a second….its human nature to always think there is something better out there…but get a grip this is real life, dont play with peoples emotions, its just cruel!!!November 30, 2010 6:55 pm at 6:55 pm #714148
and my name is talmid chochomNovember 30, 2010 6:57 pm at 6:57 pm #714149
I PROMISE I AM A WOMAN!
I know a case like this and was dealing with it for whatever reason…November 30, 2010 7:06 pm at 7:06 pm #714150
Ohhhh.Okay sorry,I didn’t chap.I hope you’re not girl #1 or #2 in this story.and if you’re in the reverse dilemma and some guy just got outa the freezer or something,i imagine all the same principles apply.November 30, 2010 7:23 pm at 7:23 pm #714151
The point is again to deal with every shidduch as if it is the only one. Whoever told this guy that his dream shidduch was available was very cruel playing with his emotions and breaking up his current shidduch. There is no guarantee that choice number one will work out for him and he could be throwing away his bashert. That person who is messing with his life, his future and possibly his success has a huge achrius on his/her hands. S/he is messing with three families here and that is a lot of achrius to take on.November 30, 2010 7:41 pm at 7:41 pm #714152
The shadchan or whoever it was who reproposed girl 1, didnt neccessarily have to know that he was in middle of something else.
re-no guarantee that shidduch number 1 would work out better,
the logic goes both ways and that in fact was his dilema, because shidduch 1 was his first choice always..November 30, 2010 7:51 pm at 7:51 pm #714153
Maybe put the case in perspective for us. What kind of community? How many dates with #2? Had he gone out already with #1?
If they are chassidish, and he has only agreed to a beshow with #2, I could more readily understand his wanting to back out of meeting her for #1.
But in a dating situation, this story just sounds bizzare.November 30, 2010 8:23 pm at 8:23 pm #714154
Regular, Heimishe community.
Donno how many dates with two but it was getting serious.
He never went out with one cos she was not ready at the time (read my post)
Why do you understand it more if they are Chassidish? On, the contrary. A chassidishe family would NEVER go back to a shidduch whic was not touched if the boy has already met another girl he is close to getting engaged to.November 30, 2010 8:26 pm at 8:26 pm #714155squeakParticipant
I already know how the story ends, it was in the first and last frum novel I read.
He breaks up to go marry his dream girl. Girl #2 is so devastated and is stuck as a single. Little does she know that while running away from the break up that night she was the sole witness to a heinous crime being perpetrated on a certain car, that caused the death (murder) of an eishes chayyil who drove it the next day…. Many years later though, it all works out because she gets to marry the widower, who happens to be a judge, and who would never have gotten closure if not for this girl being so devastated and accidentally witnessing the crime…. and she lifts up the lechayyim glass to shamayim……November 30, 2010 8:33 pm at 8:33 pm #714156so rightMember
So he had his eyes on a girl he never dated. (And thinking of this girl he never dated so much that it caused him to be blind with others!)
Doesn’t sound too kosher to me.November 30, 2010 8:48 pm at 8:48 pm #714157whatrutalkingabtMember
Doesnt sound chassidish. Sounds bizzare.
What exactly does this guy know about girl #1 that makes her his “dream girl”?November 30, 2010 8:48 pm at 8:48 pm #714158
You forgot about the ancestor in the inquisition, and the one in the holocaust.November 30, 2010 11:09 pm at 11:09 pm #714159
Aishes, still illogical BECAUSE he has no gurantees with choice #1 but he knows that choice #2 is going well. And as far as any shadchan is concerned, since who ever that is knows that he is dating since he had been ready when choice #1 wasn’t the first question that shadchan should have asked was “are you currently busy, or in middle of a shidduch?” If he answered “no” then the news about choice #1 should have been relayed however if the response was yes, I am almost holding by proposing then the shadchan should have said “zai matzliach” and wait to see what happens”.
The fact that the shadchan relayed the availability of choice #1 caused tremendous trouble and issues for all three families. Choice #1 is innocent and not liable in anyway nor is her family however when the truth comes out that this young man backed out of a shidduch to date her, they will feel awful and they will never trust him. They will be very wary of his character. As far as choice #1 she might be flattered at first but she too will see fault with his character.December 1, 2010 3:54 pm at 3:54 pm #714160dunnoMember
Why is his character at fault? Do you advocate him marrying girl #2 because it wouldn’t be nice to drop her after they were getting serious? To me the boy sounds confused and I hope everything works out for the best.December 1, 2010 4:18 pm at 4:18 pm #714161havesomeseichelMember
If I were the one about to be engaged and I heard this- I would run for my life. I don’t want to be married to a guy who is wishing he was with someone else. If I were the other “wanted dream” girl, I would also run as fast as I can- what if someone else takes the “dream spot”? How could you trust someone like that? How could you marry a guy (or gal) like that?
That guy needs to leave shidduchim for a while and take a deep look at himself. he needs to do a cheshbon hanefesh and see- why am i getting married? He also needs to consult with his Rav… he is too immature to be getting married.December 1, 2010 7:49 pm at 7:49 pm #714162
dunno, exactly what havesomeseichel said. He has a character flaw because he is not committed to the person he is with. What if something better comes along when he is with choice #1. Is choice #1 the end all be all of women? What if while he is dating #1, someone presents him with someone more beautiful, more wealthy, much smarter, etc. Will he stay committed to choice #1 or will he want to check out the great shidduch that was presented to him. After all if the shadchan guarantees him that this new prospects is going to knock his socks off…….
And what happens even when he is married and choice #1 has flaws? What then, if he is working and meets someone on the job? Or the couple gets to know another couple and that wife is on a higher madreigah than his current “wife” who was once his dream girl? What then? Now he is older, wiser and more informed. He can’t stay loyal to the person he is with, so what if he falls for a new #1?
That is his character flaw. He is not committed to the person he is with, and choice #1 has no guarantee that he will be committed to her up through the chupah nor afterward through marriage.
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