how to deal with a guest who brings up Yom Haatzmaut 🇮🇱

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  • #1282007

    mik5
    Participant

    Let’s say that you have a Shabbos guest who brings up this accursed holiday (in a favorable light).

    Mind you, that the house is filled with pictures of the Chofetz Chaim, Maran HaRav Schach, the Chazon Ish, the Satmar Rebbe, the Brisker Rav…

    The guest makes it clear that he considers this accursed day to be r”l a “holiday.” How does one respond without hurting the guest’s feelings while at the same time standing up for kavod hatorah by criticizing those who are violating the Torah?

    #1282135

    MDG
    Participant

    My rebbe in high school quoted his rebbe, Rav Aaron Soloveichik [sp?], who pointed out that Yom Haatzmaut does not conform with the normal way we make holidays. In all other holidays, we do not celebrate the war or the ability to fight, but we celebrate the next day when we could resume a Torah life in peace. Yom Haatzmaut was the changing of the flags, but not the end of the war. It just started a war with several Arab states. Nothing to celebrate.

    You could also say that Yom Haatzmaut marks the end of the Shalosh Shivuot. If they accept that, then they are accepting that the Sh”Sh are/were Lemaaseh before Yom Haatzmaut.

    #1282136

    MDG
    Participant

    My rebbe in high school quoted his rebbe, Rav Aaron Soloveichik [sp?], who pointed out that Yom Haatzmaut does not conform with the normal way we make holidays. In all other holidays, we do not celebrate the war or the ability to fight, but we celebrate the next day when we could resume a Torah life in peace. Yom Haatzmaut was the changing of the flags, but not the end of the war. It just started a war with several Arab states. Nothing to celebrate.

    You could also say that Yom Haatzmaut marks the end of the Shalosh Shivuot. If they accept that, then they are accepting that the Sh”Sh are/were Lemaaseh before Yom Haatzmaut.

    #1282138

    YOSEF
    Participant

    He has not violated the Torah at all, so why would you embarrass him?

    #1282150

    zahavasdad
    Participant

    Anytime someone brings up a topic that you disagree with,you change the topic.

    There is no reason to embarass someone. Simply change the topic

    And this can be used for any topic like alternative lifestyles, IDF , Kollel etc

    #1282233

    YOSEF
    Participant

    Youmention Harav Shach–Did you know he did not say tachnun on that day?

    #1282248

    Joseph
    Participant

    That is not accurate regarding Rav Shach.

    The Chazon Ish even said Tachanun even if there was a bris in his shul on you ha’atzmut, even though normally he wouldn’t when there’s a bris.

    #1282621

    DaMoshe
    Participant

    Joseph is correct. The Ponovezher Rav zt”l didn’t say tachnun, and set that as the rule in the yeshiva. R’ Shach zt”l was poresh from the entire yeshiva, and he sat down as said tachnun. When he became the Rosh Yeshiva, I believe he changed the minhag there to say tachnun.

    #1282630

    mik5
    Participant

    It is known that the Zionist flag is flown by Rav Schach’s yeshiva on a certain day of the year. However, like they say, not everything that happens in Bnei Brak has the haskama of the Chazon Ish, and the same would apply here.

    Any insinuation that Rav Schach was Zionist in any way is a distortion of the truth. Rav Schach said, “When I get to the Olam Haemes and they ask me why I wasn’t Zionist, I will point to the Chofetz Chaim and say that I followed in his derech.” Maran HaRav Schach is not in need of anyone’s haskama. (So said the Chazon Ish.)

    #1282634

    apushatayid
    Participant

    Doesnt sound like you are interested in discussing anything with your guest, or anyone else. I’m not sure your guest wants to be preached to, I certainly dont. I’m out of this “discussion”.

    #1282646

    mik5
    Participant

    Who am I to “discuss” anything? I can only tell you what the gedolim have said.

    #1282632

    apushatayid
    Participant

    This holds true for any topic. If you can not discuss it without resorting to embarrassing the other person, you are not qualified to discuss it.

    #1282659

    mik5
    Participant

    The person embarrassed himself by praising a country founded by Jewish heretics in violation of the ratzon Hashem (Zionism is avodah zora, according to Rabbi Wasserman HY”D).

    #1282680

    takahmamash
    Participant

    If it happened, it was ratzon HKB”H.

    #1282775

    ☕ DaasYochid ☕
    Participant

    If someone eats chazzir, was it ratzon HKB”H?

    #1282780

    mik5
    Participant

    takahmamash – Do you realize that there are some things that happen that are contrary to the ratzon Hashem because people have free will?

    If a Jew eats pork on Yom Kippur while sitting in a church r”l, it is NOT the ratzon Hashem that this Jew should be doing that. Therefore, we say that this Jew is doing something that is contrary to the ratzon Hashem.

    If a person violates halacha, he is acting contrary to the ratzon Hashem. That is why it is so terrible for a Jew to violate halacha. Not because eating pork is “bad” or turning on a light on Shabbos is “bad,” but because Hashem forbids a Jew to do this.

    #1282873

    izzyg
    Participant

    ratzon hashem discussion:
    if someone eats a ham sandwich and finishes it with enjoyment, he cannot say “if Hashem did not want me to eat it, he would have startled me suddenly and it would have dropped to the floor. Therefore this act was ratzon HaShem.” How stupid this person woujld be.
    BUT: anyone who reads any of the dozens of books written by participants – or historians – about the years of activity that preceded the creation of the state of Israel, [one of my favorites was “The Pledge” by Leonard Slater] must be astounded and mesmerized by the amazing “coincidents” and near miracles that combined in forming a state with almost no planes, no tanks, etc. vs. a gang of armies with air forces and tanks and well-armed soldiers. If HaShem had not wanted this state to be fashioned, all He had to do is let nature take it course.
    The real QUESTION IS: WHY DID HE ALLOW IT TO OCCUR AND HELP IT ALONG WITH SO MANY “MINOR” MIRACLES? I can only surmise that he expected frum Jews to flock there in the thousands and turn it into a frum country! the problem is with OUR RATZON!!

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