January 19, 2011 4:32 am at 4:32 am #733890
in the chasidish community 15 is not so crazy cuz the boys start going out at 17!!
but to any parent that allows their child to get married at such a young age needs to seriously look for a good therapist
how can u expect a boy that is 15 to get married and stay married???January 19, 2011 4:34 am at 4:34 am #733891
BP TOTTY one more thing
for birthday presents they can get each other acne creamJanuary 19, 2011 2:15 pm at 2:15 pm #733892aries2756Participant
Sac, I stand by it! A 15 year old is not mature enough emotionally to handle the “adult” side of being a wife. Nor should she be having children at 15 or 16, she is still a child herself and is not prepared emotionally nor physically for the job. She might be a good babysitter but is not ready to be a wife or mother. It is not “WRONG” on so many levels, it is “RIGHT” on so many levels. A child, is a child, is a child and till she finishes growing on so many levels she is still a CHILD.
Sac, you are not married yet, but think about it. When YOU were 15, did your parents leave you alone for days to watch your siblings? Did you parents trust you overnight with the baby? Or did your parents believe that you were a kid and needed your sleep? That’s because you WERE a kid and needed your sleep. That’s because your body and your brain did not finish developing. You were not the same at 16 as you were at 15, and for sure you were not the same at 18 as you were at 15. Get my point?January 19, 2011 3:10 pm at 3:10 pm #733893
I don’t know about your parents but at 15, mine trusted me with all those things and then some.January 19, 2011 3:39 pm at 3:39 pm #733894
They can also finally move up from hi-risers to furnature that befits their new status……
Simmons Bunk Beds!January 19, 2011 3:56 pm at 3:56 pm #733895aries2756Participant
I trusted my daughter at 15 but I would never have put the responsibility of “parenting” on her shoulders at that age. It would not have been fair to her. In case of an emergency, the mind of a 15 year old is just not mature enough to handle it. And furthermore it is not fair to lay the guilt of the outcome of an emergency on a 15 year old to live with for the rest of her life. Take that one step further if the 15 year old or 16 year old was the mother and did not have the know how or maturity to care for her own infants? Is it truly fair to do that to her? She is still a child, so can we please allow children at 15 the few more years they need to be children and grow up, mind, body and soul?
Lets be real here and not smart alecky ok? Yes you were all mature at 15 and at 16 FOR KIDS not for women. YOU were NOT WOMEN, you were kids and were trusted as KIDS not as WOMEN to handle the jobs of WOMEN! Tragedy can strike WOMEN at any time. Women miscarry all the time. Women give birth to stillborns all the time. Women give birth to chas v’sholom unhealthy and deformed babies r”l. Women have colicky babies, and babies who cry all the time. Are you honestly saying that a 15 or 16 year old child can handle that and a demanding 17 year old man/child husband as well? Maybe even interfering in-laws? And parnasah issues? And taking care of cleaning and cooking?
Come one now, lets be real here.January 19, 2011 8:21 pm at 8:21 pm #733896whatelseisleftMember
a) there has been girls in the recent past that have gotten married at 15 <— and then they DO get kicked out of there respective schools.
and the 17 man/child is unlikely.
thing number one- the 15/16 girl could be mature -the 17 year old boy? not a chance.
in those cases it’s a above age ( ie 22+) year old guy
that’s a tad creepy- aka a whooole other story/ issueJanuary 19, 2011 8:29 pm at 8:29 pm #733897
it’s shameful that one would even suggest a child of 15yrs of age should enter into a marriage contract…the rabbi and his organization are way off base.January 19, 2011 8:34 pm at 8:34 pm #733898
“Lets be real here and not smart alecky”
I see your point, but agree with ImaOfThree. I don’t think the article was real; it was just to make charedim / chassidim look bad.
So rather than address it in a serious manner, some of us chose humor.
But for the record, I do not think 15 (or anything teen, for that matter, boy or girl) is marraige materielJanuary 19, 2011 8:37 pm at 8:37 pm #733899
So what age do you think is the ideal age to get married? I didn’t read the original article – are they forcing the 15 year olds to get married or putting the idea out there?
I have friends who are way more immature than some 15 year olds. Yes, I think a mature 15 year old can be responsible enough to handle marriage and kids. And that’s me “being real.”January 19, 2011 10:48 pm at 10:48 pm #733900
“And that’s me “being real.”
And you’re how old?January 19, 2011 11:02 pm at 11:02 pm #733901
Of marriageable age…January 19, 2011 11:18 pm at 11:18 pm #733902
Of marriageable age…
As in 15? 18? 20? And I forgot if you’ve noted it in a prior post; what gender are you?
Trust me, you ain’t seen nuthin yet. Don’t believe me? Ask a married friend or sibling if its as easy as it looks.January 19, 2011 11:21 pm at 11:21 pm #733903
As in post high school..
Nowhere did I say that marriage is an easy thing. I know it’s not. But if someone’s mature and willing to work at it, I would think they have a higher success rate at the marriage lasting.January 19, 2011 11:28 pm at 11:28 pm #733904
Ok, so that puts you at a minimum of 18, maybe even 19. Are you telling me, the 2011 Freshies in your HS are as “up-to-the-challenge” as you Sem Girls are?
And if I can juggle oranges, should I try to do it with chain saws?
Marraige is no place for teens. No matter what’s going on in the here and now, and no matter how successful the newly minted couples appear to be. And toss an infant into the mix a year or so later (which is a real possibility) and you have the setting for a perfect storm.
Not a nice place to be for a teen.January 20, 2011 1:58 am at 1:58 am #733906
Like I said before, I know of 15 year olds who are way more mature than some 19 year olds getting married.January 20, 2011 2:31 am at 2:31 am #733907
Marriageable age, it is age, when people mature enough to take care not only of themselves, but also of their spouse and children. I can imagine, that 17 years old boy would like to learn full time. Now, what kind of job can have 15 years old girl to support her husband and herself, if she did not graduate from high school, does not have any skills/profession? Can 15 years old girl make enough money to pay for rent, health insurance, food, clothes? Even if she will find some kind of job (babysitting?), can you imagine 15 year old “woman” working + taking care of her house, spouse and kid, making weekly shopping on her feet and carry all bags in her hands (she can’t drive at age 15 even if she is mature). Yes, 15 years old girl knows how to cook, how to clean up the house and make laundry. She can babysit. But does it mean she is physically and mentally ready to do this in a regular basis day after day?January 20, 2011 2:52 am at 2:52 am #733909
Sacrilege, this is your post from another thread:
“Very important. I am tall for a girl (and apparently for most Jewish males) and I dont feel comfortable dating someone shorter than me.”
So, if you will be married at age 15 and by age 20 suddenly found out, that you became taller than your husband (yes, 15 yo people still grow), will you divorce him?January 20, 2011 3:36 am at 3:36 am #733911theObviousMember
Being ready for marriage is not only about maturity. Very nice a 15 year old girl is “more mature than a 19 year old” but really, age makes a huge difference. No matter how immature a 19 year old is, she has more life experience than a 15 year old “mature” girl. You need to experience life and how the world runs before you get married which no one has by 15, 16. Or very rarely does anyone at a young age have such life experience. And it does not even have to be experiencing drastic things but just living life. living it for longer. So really, what I am trying to say, is that the older the better, No matter how mature!January 20, 2011 4:17 am at 4:17 am #733915
And if her husband starts graying 5 years earlier than expected would she divorce him? No. Does that mean she should marry someone who’s graying at this point? No.
True. But then really people should wait till they’re old so they can bank on all that life experience…January 20, 2011 5:40 am at 5:40 am #733916
I’m not sure how man gray heir relates to his height.
Also “old” is not equal “older”.
Re-read the posts you comment.January 20, 2011 1:48 pm at 1:48 pm #733920
It seems to me (correct me if I’m wrong) that you are telling Sac that height isn’t an issue to divorce over when she commented in another thread that she wants a tall guy. While I agree that it’s not something that will cause a divorce, there’s no reason she should go into such marriage to begin with.January 20, 2011 2:41 pm at 2:41 pm #733921SacrilegeMember
I think its wrong for 15 year olds to get married, no question about it. I had a problem w the wording of your post, I thought it was in bad taste.
Being that I’m going on 24 and not married we are speaking in the hypothetical 😉
I’m not sure how familiar you are w maturing females/males. At 15 girls are often taller than boys, girls are usually nearing the end of their maturation process (keeping it Kosher) and boys are usually just starting. (Oh, another reason why this is a really bad idea).January 20, 2011 11:05 pm at 11:05 pm #733924
i think 15 is the perfect age
amuligayuren in the alter heim thats how it was
i dont think we shudve evr changed from thatJanuary 21, 2011 5:47 pm at 5:47 pm #733926pet peeveMember
yeah but we are not living in the alter heim. maybe we should also drive horses, they also did that in the alter heim. nowadays there are so many factors to consider, you can’t even compare that world and how they did things–one minor example being school. girls weren’t in high school in the alter heim, here they are. just an example. besides, whoever said that how they did everything in the alter heim is the right way? not all the customs are Torah m’sinai, some where technicalities, just they way things were.
another example is eating potatoes as karpas on pesach. thats not the ideal vegetable to eat, but many families do, because “thats how they did it in the heim”. well, why did they do it? thats the vegetable they could afford/thats what was available, etc.
we dont need to translate everything from the heim into our lives today. sure, there are many of us who have ancestors who married between the ages of 12-18, older than that was downright old. but that doesnt mean that today that would be appropriate.January 21, 2011 6:34 pm at 6:34 pm #733927
“I know of 15 year olds who are way more mature than some 19 year olds getting married. “
Point well taken, Dunno. Al that means (to me) is that the 19 year old should not be getting married either.January 21, 2011 6:58 pm at 6:58 pm #733928mw13Participant
Are 15-year olds too immature to get married? Well, that’s going to depend on the 15-year old we’re talking about. Some are, some aren’t.
And anyways, the Gemora says the best time (for a boy) to get married is 13, so it’s kinda hard to say it’s always wrong to marry under 15…January 21, 2011 7:18 pm at 7:18 pm #733929
Yeah. Would you let him drive your car? So why trust him with your daughter?January 21, 2011 8:02 pm at 8:02 pm #733930
mw13…How would you feel if your 13yrd old boy was to get married?January 23, 2011 4:00 am at 4:00 am #733931mw13Participant
Yes, I would not let my 13 year old son get married… but only because the western society that we live in has conditioned our teens to act and think like children. In other societies where this is not the case, it’s very possible I would indeed let my teenage son (assuming he was mature enough) get married.January 23, 2011 2:38 pm at 2:38 pm #733932twistedParticipant
To those disturbed by the “pawning off” concept, the parameters of such is the opening of this weeks parsha.January 23, 2011 5:25 pm at 5:25 pm #733933smartcookieMember
they will need to make maternity uniform (unless she won’t be accepted to school anymore)
First of all- in israel it’s normal to be in school until 20 & MOST girls are married by then.
Yes, they do continue school after marriage, & yes, they do sit in those desks while in maternity!(I have a friend there)
This is real life there.
& about the age:
First of all, the couple was engaged by 15, will get married by 16, & that makes it at least 17 before their baby.
This is very young, but 17 isn’t 15.
Anyway ,you all have to understand that in Meah Shearim, getting married young is their lifestyle.
The kids grow up so differently knowing that they’re almost at marrigeable age!
The 15 year olds there are a lot more mature than american 15 year olds.
It’s not so bad as you all make it. Don’t get me wrong, I think it’s insane, but you people are judging them very wrong.
It’s ok. I’m sure they’ll be fine & very happyJanuary 23, 2011 9:54 pm at 9:54 pm #733934
“I’m not sure how familiar you are w maturing females/males. At 15 girls are often taller than boys, girls are usually nearing the end of their maturation process (keeping it Kosher) and boys are usually just starting. (Oh, another reason why this is a really bad idea)”
I’m somehow familiar with the subject – my son is 36 and my daughter is 31 ( both B’H married and with kids), also I learned physiology. Boys who have short father, most likely will be short at age 15 and still be short at age 50. A lot of girls still grow till 17-18 and some till 20. You are right, the time difference in “maturation process” is another reason why this is not a good idea. Also, to be physiologically mature and psychologically ready to take responsibilities upon yourself are not the same. To have a family IS responsibility for BOTH party.January 24, 2011 9:57 am at 9:57 am #733935haifagirlParticipant
Since this article was about in E”Y, what happens when they turn 18 and HAVE to go to the army?
Married girls are exempt.January 24, 2011 3:11 pm at 3:11 pm #733936
mw13..”Yes, I would not let my 13 year old son get married… but only because the western society that we live in has conditioned our teens to act and think like children”…I actually think they act like children becasue a 13yrd is a child. And certainly not mature enough and way to young to have “relations”…January 25, 2011 3:16 am at 3:16 am #733937observanteenMember
I heard about a couple who got married at age 15. (It happened back in Europe.) They were fighting all the time, so, they went back to their parents’ home for a couple of years and then reunited:)
Mikehall: teens may act immature sometimes, but it’s okay. Their life will be serious when the time comes… BTW I’d like to meet a teen who’s “living a life”. I think we all have “mature” stuff to deal with ;). Unfortunately, due to typical teens’ insecurities, they cling to each other forming “relationships” even if they’re a bit young for that… Oh, and no, I’m not 15:-)January 25, 2011 8:06 am at 8:06 am #733938m in IsraelMember
I never heard of this rabbi, and don’t know who backs him. In general, even in Israel this is rare. Personally, I am not at all in favor of young marriages.
However. . . there are a very few Chassidic communities in Israel where the accepted thing is for girls to get married at 15/16. Everyone in these small communities for the most part does it, and it seems that the girls really do “grow up” at an earlier age. Perhaps because in their minds they always viewed that age as an adult. I am personally familiar with one couple from such a community — when they got engaged the girl was 15 1/2, the boy was just 19. (By the time they were married she was just 16!) They have been very happily married for over 10 years with a number of kids, and the community as a whole seems to do fine.
Keep in mind, they are living almost a “shtetl” lifestyle. Generally speaking all the parents, siblings, etc. live in the same small neighborhood, helping each other as necessary. People live very simply and do not require a lot of money, and the men often end up learning part time and doing small odd jobs or teaching on the side, and that covers their expenses. Housing is dirt cheap, many people have their own gardens and even lifestock, etc. You cannot compare these communities to those in the US or even the rest of Israel, and certainly to condemn their way of life without any knowledge of it seems unfair.
Keep in mind that even in the US their are certain communities (such as some of the Sephardic communities) where girls routinely marry at 17. While I can’t imagine that for my own daughter, if it works for them, who am I to decide that it’s “too young”.February 1, 2011 1:56 am at 1:56 am #733939mosheroseMember
According to the gemara a girl can be married by her father as soon as shes born. While that maybe too young for most people remember that her mother and brother were given teh power to marry her off befoer twelve to keep her out of trouble. So obviously if theres a danger of her getting into trouble she should get married younger rather than later.
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