Hunting and Judaism

Yitzchok told (who he thought was) eisav to hunt for him.

Noda B’Yehuda Mahdura Tinyana Yoreh Deiah 10

Popa, Chazal say that Yitzchok actually taught him how to Shecht.

Is it hunting for sport or for food?

popa -He learned through practice

Hunting for sport is clearly prohibited. Hunting for food is permitted – however you would have to capture the animals to slaughter them halachically. I’ve heard of people hunting with goyim and giving the goy the animal to eat. However I don’t think anyone would allow killing animals for fun.

popa -He learned through practice

That was my point. That he must have been doing it before he was that good also.

See also Igros Moshe Choshen Mishpat 1:104

http://hebrewbooks.org/pdfpager.aspx?req=14675&st=&pgnum=167

The issur of tzar b’allei chaim prohibits causing unnecessary pain or suffering to an animal. The key word is “unnecessary”. For instance, shechting a cow certainly causes pain to the animal but the shechita is necessary and, therefore, muttar. Likewise, hunting for any halachically legitimate purpose should be permitted. While one can clearly not hunt for food (unless you could somehow capture a kosher animal alive, and shect it) if, say, you wanted the dear skin for a klaph, or a bear skin for a rug, or you wanted to shoot coyotes for their fur, It seems to me that such hunting would technically be muttar.

P.S. I don’t think some posters are clear about what “hunting for sport” is. To my knowledge, all big game hunting is for food in that the meat is never wasted. In America, almost all hunters are meat hunters, that is they butcher and eat their prey. On guided big game hunts in Alaska, the hunter can either keep the meat for him or herself or it gets distributed among the local villages. In Africa the meat is always distributed among the local population. All the hunter gets is the pelt.

Rat,

I did not assume his sources were apikorsim, I assumed, and I am sure correctly so, that he had no clue as to any sources and was just spouting what he assumed.

He would then google and that is who would show up.

If either of you would have read the NB and understood any part of it, You would see that it does not support ZD. There would be no difference between hunting and fishing.

And hunting for skins would probably be mutar if you could mitigate sakana.

Your assumption is wholly incorrect.

“Patur, Rav Moshe does not say which of ball game he is referring. Baseball? Not so dangerous. Perhaps football? In Israel, the English-speakers’ yeshivot have their own league. Are exercise and letting off steam matirim?”

He is referring to something which is ??? ???? ????? ?????? ???? ???? ????? ?????? and something which is ?????? ??? ???? ????? ????

Now his Teshuva is specifically talking about ??????? ????? ?????

??????? which would seem to imply that if it’s not ??????? then it would be assur (unless there is some other hechrech on par with parnassa which would allow you to engage in an activity with a small risk of sakanna).

so i see more yes that nos

I really wouldn’t recommend hunting for someone with vision problems.

Talmidim of R’ Moshe have said that that T’shuvah was referring to baseball, where deaths were more common than they are nowadays (though they still happen once in a tremendously long while). I don’t recall that T’shuvah precisely, but I do remember that R’ Ovadiah ( Yabia Omer 1 YD 27 or 26, I think) has a line proving that it’s Muttar to enter a Safek Sakanah for Parnassah.

Perhaps I wasn’t clear enough but I was essentially citing the NB. There is an issur of tzar b’alei chaim but it does not apply letzarech adam.

Basically according to the NB, it isn’t forbidden per se, but it is considered an aggressive tendency that Jews should refrain from doing. If you want to hunt for fun, even if you want to donate the meat to a non Jewish homeless shelter, it is not specifically forbidden, but it isn’t something that Jews should be doing.

PAA,

I never said that the NB issued a blanket heter, it was clear that this was in reference to hunting.

And your comment about skins, I was referring to cases where it is not for parnassah, just that the person would like the skin for whatever personal use. In such a case, you may have to mitigate the sakana.

You were jumping the gun on your assumptions.

Beni,

I think it refers more to a cruel nature rather than cruelty itself. Somewhat like ahirsch is describing above.

The desire to hunt for sport is cruel. Animals feel pain and fear, and we are a nation of rachmanim bnei rachmanim. Achzorius IS cruelty, and speaks to a middah of intrinsic hardness of the heart. There is nothing “sporting” about chasing an animal down until it is too tired or weak to get away. Nimrod and Esav were known to be mighty hunters. Their depiction in the Torah or Medrash, is not a flattering one.

nishtdayngesheft:

I know that it was in reference to hunting. I was qualifying that even in reference to hunting it’s not a blanket heter – it’s only a heter to kill or to cause pain for a constructive purpose (and even then presumably you would have to do it in the least painful way possible in accordance with Moreh Nevuchim 3:48).

Regarding the skins, it seems that I misread/misunderstood the back and forth between you and Redleg. I thought that “And hunting for skins would probably be mutar if you could mitigate sakana” was a quote from Redleg and your response was “Your assumption is wholly incorrect” which I took to mean that you were saying that even if you could mitigate sakana it would be assur. To that I responded that even without mitigating sakana it is muttar for parnassa i.e. the only reason it would be assur is sakana, and parnassa overrides sakana, and obviously then if you mitigate the sakana then it would be muttar even if it is not strictly necessary for parnassa since as already established it’s not tzar ba’alei chaim if it’s for a constructive purpose. So I think in this regard we agree that if it is for parnassa then you don’t need to mitigate sakana and if it is not strictly for parnassa but it is for a constructive purpose then it is muttar if you mitigate the sakana. This is all aside from the fact that it might not be ???? ??? ????? ???? ?????.

I know the son of a certain adam gadol, who kind of “dances to his own drummer.” He once asked Reb Moshe about hunting (or it may have been fishing, its been many years since I heard this and that detail is a bit hazy in my memory.) Reb Moshe responded, “Ich ken nit zogen az es iz ossur.” Then after a slight pause he asked, “Uber host du amohl gelernt in yeshiva?”

“And you need to edit what you wrote. Killing the animal is not ossur because of tzar baalie chayim.”

I never said that killing it is assur because of tzar ba’alri chaim.

“Causing Tzaar for a necessity is also muttar”

I already said this.

Because killing things for fun is a core value you want to have?