Husbands in Gett Situations

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  • #1807084

    danmarino
    Participant

    Can anyone recommend a frum lawyer/advisor to help a husband through the beis din process, in what will be a contested divorce case? Looking for someone who knows the ins and outs of beis din process with a lot of experience helping husbands.

    Also, are there any groups/online sites that help fathers specifically in the gett/divorce process?

    Thanks

    #1807096

    Gadolhadorah
    Participant

    Danmarino: Are you in Flatbush or Frankfurt? Makes a big difference since you will want an advisor (doesn’t have to be a lawyer) who knows the local beis din scene and the rabbonim likely to serve on the tribunal for that divorce. Just like a civil court, each beis din has its own procedures and protocols for the conduct of gittin. Having an attorney may be helpful to the extent you need to coordinate the get with civil divorce proceedings, especially if their are child custody issues. And yes, there are websites and support discussion groups for frum men/fathers going through a divorce. We cannot post links here but you can search online and they will be readily identified.

    #1807097

    The little I know
    Participant

    It matters where the proceedings will take place. Batei Din are not apt to accept a case that is not in their geographic area. And not all lawyers will be able to practice in another state, and often refuse to take cases outside of their local area. Specify. has the case been brought before a beis din yet? Are there any professionals involved? What is the history – has there been a serious effort to reconcile, are there legal matters in play? Many questions. The question posed is way too vague.

    #1807101

    danmarino
    Participant

    It will be in Flatbush, NY. Attempts to reconcile have not been successful.

    I’m looking for a toen/lawyer to help in walking me through beis din process.

    #1807127

    funnybone
    Participant

    I once heard R. Bluth zt”l say, when people divorce there are two choices, they can come to me for mediation or they can give all the money to divorce lawyers.

    I recommend that all civil issues are resolved before the Bais Din Get.

    #1807125

    The little I know
    Participant

    It would be nice to facilitate a connection to speak. It cannot be done behind the anonymity here. Likewise, I would be horrified to see commenters using this forum to advertise for attorneys or toanim.

    #1807131

    meir G
    Participant

    a couple of points ; w/o knowing any backround to your story ( but that never stops us in the coffee room from commenting)
    1. if there are no kids yet & no big bank accounts – & you both really are done – than its very straight foward basicly whoever keeps the apt pays the rent, gifts/jewlery go back , cc bills ?? promise not to bad mouth each other be mentchlich to the shver and get it done ( you have rav herbst , rav bick , rabbi bergman, rav alt…)
    2. if even one of you is not really ready to end it . than you got to REALLY REALLY understand the ramifications of a get- numerous friends of yours can tell you that they had a “hell” of a shana rishona & now 10 years later laugh & love at their dumb beginnings. there is a big feeling of relief immediately following a get .. yet when yom tov kicks in and you are lighting menorah alone in a basement its rough , very rough ? rav miller zatzl used to say that the bas kol that says bas ploni leploni is everyday hashem tells each of us ” this one is FOR YOU” ( it doesnt mean that YOU dont have a valid unlivable situation)
    3. if the other side has hired a bulldog toen than its going to be ugly and you need to protect yourself.
    4. flatbush has many wise ,erliche & capable rabonim & many older ones who have time & experience that can help you before during & after for free – you are better off not bothering the famous ones as they are overloaded (rav meir schenberg,, tenke rav friedman

    #1807206

    lakewhut
    Participant

    1. You’re not allowed to take a Jew to a non-Jewish court.

    2. Do you want to make the Mizbe’ach cry?

    3. Are there kids?

    #1807264

    CTLAWYER
    Participant

    @lakwhut
    Since when are you a Posek?
    If a Jewish Couple had a civil marriage then they need to get a civil divorce in many jurisdictions.
    If they don’t…there are consequences that may prove to be expensive or worse.
    #1 Remarry and get charges with bigamy…jails/fines
    #2 Tax liability on your ex-spouse’s income
    #3 Your ex-spouse’s income may be counted in determining social benefits (Section 8, SNAP, tuition assistance.
    #4 You new wife goes to collect a spouse’s Social Security benefit and you find out your first wife is already collecting against you
    #5 Your first spouse has a claim on your pension

    Every married couple needs not only a civil divorce but a properly executed QDRO…Qualified Domestic Relations Order. This spells out what happens with benefits such as a pension that may be many decades off.
    I recently represented a Jewish Woman against her ex. He turned 60, retired and went to collect his pension from the State of CT. He filled out the forms electing to have wife #2 collect his pension after his death and taking a smaller monthly amount. SURPRISE!!!!!! 35 years ago when he was divorced from wife #1 I represented her in civil court (they already had a get from the beis din. I drafted the QDRO which was approved by the civil court judge. Wife #1 was entitled to one half the value of his state pension at its vested value at the time of divorce. His election to take a smaller pension so wife #2 could have a survivor’s benefit violated the terms of the QDRO. He was forced to take full monthly payments and wife #1 gets a check for 27% from the state each month, he gets 73%. If he had been allowed to take the reduced sum wife #1 would only be receiving an amount equal to 16%.

    Lakwhut, you are NOT an attorney and should not be giving legal advice or making legal pronouncements.
    Dina malchusa Dina………………….
    I don’t take Jewish Divorce Clients unless they agree to a get in a beis din in addition to the civil divorce for tax and other similar purposes.

    #1807262

    mentsch1
    Participant

    I am divorced and BH happily remarried.
    I have counseled many people in these matters.
    But, and this might sound harsh, I wouldn’t offer you advice.
    Divorce is always a tragedy. But to compound the problem by making it “contested” is evil.
    Now I might be mistaken and the conflict may be from your wife and you have no control over that. If that is the case then I apologize. However if you are planning to fight I would remind you that though it is permitted to give your wife a get , machlokes is assur. And the damage it does to the kids is unconscionable.
    I would strongly advise divorce mediation.
    Fighting over money will result in money from which you will see no mazel.
    I didn’t fight, and neither did my current wife with her ex, and we have both seen much bracha and Mazel together.
    Good luck.

    #1807269

    CTLAWYER
    Participant

    @thelittleIknow
    I hope you never have to know much about divorce, but I am a family law attorney.
    “Batei Din are not apt to accept a case that is not in their geographic area.”
    Actually it happens all the time.
    Outside major Jewish population areas there are not many Batei Din.
    I live and practice law less than 75 miles from Manhattan. The nearest regularly establish Batei Din are
    in NY. We often take the parties to Brooklyn or Long Island for a Jewish Divorce.
    For uncontested Jewish Divorce, where everything has been worked out beforehand, I may import a
    Dayan from Chabad in Brooklyn. The driver he works with is his sofer to prepare the Get and two
    Rebbeim from the local Chabad day school serve as the other members of the Beis Din. My preference is
    an established Beis Din that meets regularly and has an office and staff, especially if there is a chance
    that the divorcing couple or their offspring may ever want to settle in EY and get married there.

    #1807270

    Gadolhadorah
    Participant

    Little I Know: I’m not sure anyone is “advertising” for lawyers or toanim. The point was that there may certain cases, which the only the OP would be aware of, where in addition to the advice of his Rav, there could be a separate need for a frum attorney to protect the interests of the OP if there were matters that might spill over into a civil court. Generally, not necessary but every case presents unique facts and circumstances.

    #1807274

    yehudayona
    Participant

    meir G and lakewhut, if there weren’t kids, why would he be asking about help for fathers?

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