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Who has more rights? Husband or Wife?
Who has more responsibilities? Husband or Wife?Every man and woman have different tafkids its not a matter of who has more.
Sounds like your attempt to stir up controversy during sefira fell flat…
B”HI think the is a question best asked to the TROLLER rebbe or the TROLLER rosh hayeshiva, I know they have a seder in this inyan in the TROLL bais hamedresh
The wife makes a bracha שעשני כרצונו, He made me according to His will. Through her existence she performs a mitzva being there to support her husband. We call a wedding a nisuyin meaning to elevate. Each one elevates the other by placing them on a pedestal.
A husband he has both more responsibilities and rights.
Let the sock puppeting begin —
When I saw ujm’s name under this thread, I knew exactly what he was going to say 🙄
@GotAGoodPoint
If this is a troll thread, you must be a beginner.Bored-Teen: Do you have any knowledge of Halacha that allows you to dispute my point?
Didn’t see Bored_teen disputing any points
why give credent to a troll?
Dear Ujm,
By more do you mean in quantity, or the quantified quality? I have no idea how to tally rights versus responsibilities, outside of one on one litigation. So I cannot apply it to marriage. Or even divorce.
Ujm- I wasn’t/won’t dispute your point because people like you aren’t looking for answers. All I was saying was that you’ve said the same thing so many times that I can predict your responses.
DaasYochid- Exactly!It always feels like a man has more rights because a woman has to be committed to her husband and follow his ways and respect him. But i guess in the kesuba the husband also has rights to his wife. Responsibilities you really can’t compare and measure. He has a responsibility to keep mitzvos, kovea itim etc. Whilst a lady has a responsibility to look after the house, food, kids, finances (this is a probably a dangerous word to say) and looking after him. Woman’s rights etc. is totally non-Jewish so forget about that one. We should be grateful for whatever position Hashem put us in, and if any person was jealous they of opposite gender, I feel sorry for them. gotagoodpoint I am curious to know why you started this thread?!?
Just a funny story I heard about husband/wife rights/responsibilities – the wife and husband were splitting the household roles exactly in half, the husband will have to look after his child the exact same amount of time his wife did!! And the same for cleaning/dinner etc…Perhaps given its Mother’s Day, we should all include Mrs. UJM in our thoughts given the enormous responsibilities she carries on behalf of the varbeshe klal.
Of course the husband has rights that the wife doesn’t – Miranda rights.
My joke above didn’t go well in my household. Now, I need to explain who this Miranda is, and how I got to know her. Unfortunately, 1st and 5th parts of bill of rights were incorporated down to states and towns, but not households, so men generally don’t enjoy those rights.
If men were responsible for pesach and women for sukkos, they would start on the same day.
Erev Pesach
Just go through mishnayos kesuvos and kidushin..why post about it one way or another.
In modern Western society, contaminated by feminism, it is deemed verboten to discuss men’s rights or women’s responsibilities. According to the powers that be in American culture, it is only permissible to discuss women’s rights and men’s responsibilities.
Mishayos may be a long way to start getting there for a bochur, but if someone is currently married, a faster way would be to observe talmidei chachamim interacting with their wives, and other way around… Even bochrim, like Akiva and haverav would prefer learning actual practice, going so far as hiding under rebbe’s bed… Torah hi velilmod ani tzarich
CR trollistic adaptation of classic 19th century German slogan of Kinder, Küche, Kirche (loosely translated as “children, kitchen, church” ) which was used to describe a woman’s role in society. The phrase is vaguely equivalent to the American misogynistic anthem of “barefoot and pregnant” and somewhat more elegant Evangelical X’stian themes of a “special” subordinate role. I suspect that several of our justices likely believe the 19th amendment was “wrongly decided” by Congress and the ratifying states and certainly inconsistent with the original intent of the founding FATHERS.
The רמב״ם says that she should treat him like a king and he should treat her like a queen
It seems like they’re equal
If you measure responsibilities by number of missvot the answer is clear. Otherwise, while it may be nice to know, Baruch Hashem both men and women have plenty of responsibilities to keep them both occupied constantly. Usually we don’t count our rights in Judaism.
I once heard from Rabbi Akiva Tatz that marriage is not a division of responsibilities, it is two people coming together to do everything they can to help the other. Definitely something to strive for.
AAQ: Are you suggesting we learn from the interactions described by Chazal between the heilige Tanna Rabi Meir and his Rebbetzin Bruria?
Coffee Addict: A Queen is not equal to the King. Similarly, the Halacha is that a wife must do her husband’s will, whereas the reverse is not the case.
and as all good trolls, the OP disappears into the sunset
Or sometimes they sign back in but with the wrong user name
Dear Ujm,
“must do her husband’s will” Please quote correctly.
There are kings and queens that are merely consorts of the reigning spouse, like recently in England (historically, mostly queens indeed, but there were enough real queens in history), and there are those where both were powerful, like Isabella and Ferdinand of Spain. Does anyone comment on what Rambam had in mind?
Learning from R Meir and Beruriah? of course, both from their achievements and shortcomings. Why would Gemorah bring those stories otherwise – just to make fun of them? R Yehuda himself brought Beruriah as a (positive) example to a guy who wanted to learn too much too fast.
Regarding the family, you can learn from Rav whose wife always sent him the dish opposite of what he requested and his “smart” son changed his words and made Rav happy for a moment (not just with the right dish, but with the fact that the wife changed her attitude).
There is a lot to learn from this (direct one – do not teach kids to lie even in permissible case of shalom), but – if you can keep the secret here – I learned to request the opposite of what I really want in those – rare, very rare! – cases when I expect make request to be reversed. It was most important for Rav to have a peaceful spouse, but I am humble enough to be satisfied just with the right beans in cholent.
You people must have low IQs to take the troll at face value, want to buy a bridge?
> be in American culture, it is only permissible to discuss women’s rights and men’s responsibilities.
says the man who either did not give ketubah or did not listen carefully when it was read to him.
AAQ: American/Western culture has absolutely zero to do with the Kesuba, Torah Judaism or with Klal Yisroel.
AAQ: You’ll notice that when the King is sovereign, his wife is entitled Queen Consort. But when the Queen is sovereign, her husband is not entitled King Consort. This is because the title of King, by definition, outranks the title of Queen.
Dear Common,
I think a thread offering to sell a bridge will get many responses.
“Dear Ujm,
“must do her husband’s will” Please quote correctly.”
Dear N0mesorah,
Per your request, here’s the exact original:
וְכֵן צִוּוּ עַל הָאִשָּׁה שֶׁתִּהְיֶה מְכַבֶּדֶת אֶת בַּעְלָהּ בְּיוֹתֵר מִדַּאי וְיִהְיֶה עָלֶיהָ מוֹרָא מִמֶּנּוּ וְתַעֲשֶׂה כָּל מַעֲשֶׂיהָ עַל פִּיו. וְיִהְיֶה בְּעֵינֶיהָ כְּמוֹ שַׂר אוֹ מֶלֶךְ. מְהַלֶּכֶת בְּתַאֲוַת לִבּוֹ וּמַרְחֶקֶת כָּל מַה שֶּׁיִּשְׂנָא. וְזֶה דֶּרֶךְ בְּנוֹת יִשְׂרָאֵל וּבְנֵי יִשְׂרָאֵל הַקְּדוֹשִׁים וְהַטְּהוֹרִים בְּזִוּוּגָן. וּבִדְרָכִים אֵלּוּ יִהְיֶה יִשּׁוּבָן נָאֶה וּמְשֻׁבָּח:
Btw, did this come up because this is today’s daf in Yevamos that the man should honor his wife more than himself? First cheerful words after 60 pages of plagues killing brothers and sisters left and right and listing all perversions currently approved by the supreme courts…
Ujm, what I meant is that Kesuba (at least mine) lists my responsibilities and none of my rights against your claims. You need to leave mitzraim, you are in De Nile.
why half-quote Rambam?!
וְזֶה דֶּרֶךְ בְּנוֹת יִשְׂרָאֵל וּבְנֵי יִשְׂרָאֵל – this refers to both men and women referring to the previous para explaining hw the man should behave, not just women. For example, the 2nd par that she should do maaseiah al piv “everything that comes out of his mouth” sounds conditional on 1st par – not make her fear him veihe diburo benahas. So expressing “your will” in a fear inspiring or even strict manner seems to be out of question.One thing that is clear from this Rambam is that nobody should talk H’V to his wife the way people talk on CR – and expect to be treated as a King!
Thanks, Ujm!
Don’t you agree that that is much better?
AAQ: I specifically referred to American/Western culture. Even though too much of that Gentile weltanschauung has most unfortunately infiltrated even some quarters of ours, as you often demonstrate first hand, you are deliberately confusing the Kesuba into an American culture that has no bearing on the point.
ujm, I wish your arguments would be as strong as your convictions, and the arrows of your enemies as precise as your quotations!
As to assimilation – just because I might quote an occasional scientist, I am not more assimilated than those who smoke second-hand social media without realizing it (also witnessed on this board). Note that chochma of goyim is valuable, while stupid superstitions are not.
They say if the husband is a king, the wife is a queen.
husband has more rights
“Bet ujm has that quote on his wall and that his wife loves it.”
i think we should here more from Ujm on the shiduch crises as he has experience…One of my three wives isn’t sure I should take on the responsibilities of having a fourth. The other two are all for it.
That’s my Shidduch Crisis. My Rov/Posek, who is Moroccan like myself, is still mulling it over.
Joseph,
So you’re Moroccan from “a holocaust survivor family” who “lived in the shtetl”?
Dofi: Absolutely not. Rumor has it that although he was at one time a star talmid of the Trollster Rebbe, Z’l, he was subsequently expelled from his beis medrash (shtender and all) for disparaging and misogynistic comments about the Trollster rebitzen. While he technically “lived in the shtetl”, it was in Monsey, not Morocco.
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