July 3, 2017 10:57 pm at 10:57 pm #1309771besalelParticipant
I am a Roman Catholic. No, no, I do not believe that Jesus was our savior nor do I believe him to be the son of God. I certainly do not believe in the Holy Ghost and, to be honest, I am not really sure what that even is. But believe me (as our President is want to say) I am a Catholic.
Don’t get me wrong, I have never stepped into a church, I did not attend Sunday school, I know very, very little about the New Testament and if you asked me what mass was, I’d probably tell you it is the property of matter that measures its resistance to acceleration. But I call myself a Roman catholic so a Roman Catholic I am.
My father was not a Roman Catholic and neither was my mother but I was converted by a Roman Catholic who shares my views of our religion. Truth is, to me being Roman Catholic means being a good person and having Catholic values (because, after all, we all know that Muslims, Jews and them awful Baptists do not believe in being a good person or changing the world for the better).
As I do not know or care for the Catholic rights, I don’t have rosemary beads and think they’re silly, Hail Mary is what I like to see at the end of a football game and again, I don’t believe in Jesus, I have developed a new form of Catholic prayer. It entails, wearing a pasta strainer on my head (I borrowed that one from the Pastafarians) and wearing speedos and chanting the lyrics to any song by Abba. This is how I, as a Catholic, like to perform the prayer service. Now, truth be told, I conduct my services maybe once a year but as a Catholic, I demand that the Holy See set aside a space for me at the Vatican to conduct my mass every 15th of the month and on Christmas and Easter, too. The refusal by the Church to cede to my requests shows great intolerance on the part of the Church and I will stop donating money to the Archdioceses and instead of telling people I meet how nice Catholics are, I will encourage them to spread lies about the Catholic people all over the world.
And that is the Reform argument to pray at the Kotel.July 4, 2017 11:01 am at 11:01 am #1309988yehudayonaParticipant
Cute. I like the part about rosemary beads.July 4, 2017 11:59 am at 11:59 am #1310004
What the heck?July 4, 2017 11:59 am at 11:59 am #1310018yitzchokmParticipant
One of the best posts I’ve seen in awhile
KudosJuly 4, 2017 1:00 pm at 1:00 pm #1310115
But Judaism is different from Catholicism. A Jew, no matter how far, is still a Jew.July 4, 2017 1:17 pm at 1:17 pm #1310128
while you raise a cute point There are 2 flaws:
1) As RY23 points out (thoug gh?I guess you minimize this arguument by limiting your point the reform “geirim” (“My father was not a Roman Catholic and neither was my mother but I was converted by a Roman Catholic who shares my views of our religion. “) Though this is a big minimization of your point, since Im not sure how many of those there are.
2) The Kosel is not owned by any particular group. IT isnt comparable to the Vatican (LEhavdil being an understatement of the century.) your argument would make sense for a misnaged who practices “his version of Satmar” and davens nusach ashkenaz etc and insists on having his own minyan in Kiryas yoelJuly 4, 2017 1:47 pm at 1:47 pm #1310162
“But Judaism is different from Catholicism. A Jew, no matter how far, is still a Jew.”
Yeah, what makes you think a bad Catholic isn’t still a Catholic?July 4, 2017 1:56 pm at 1:56 pm #1310201☕ DaasYochid ☕Participant
But Judaism is different from Catholicism. A Jew, no matter how far, is still a Jew.
But “Judaism” with it’s own self made rules is not Judaism, no matter what they call it.
No Jew, reform or otherwise, is prevented from davening at the Kosel.
They are perhaps prevented from davening in ways which violate the tenets of authentic Judaism.
Besalel, great post. Even if some wish to nitpick inconsequential details.July 4, 2017 2:08 pm at 2:08 pm #1310237
Catholicism isn’t true, so it’s like baseball. My own very spiritual, nontraditional form of baseball is not real baseball.July 4, 2017 3:24 pm at 3:24 pm #1310375
But if it were true THEN your spiritual, nontraditional form would be real?
Actually, you could pretty much make a whole spin-off thread where you rewrite this OP’s post about baseball instead of Catholicism and trying to play at Yankee stadium or something with your own spiritual baseball version. That would be pretty funny.July 4, 2017 4:18 pm at 4:18 pm #1310398
If it were true, then it would be a matter of either belief or belonging as opposed to following the rules.July 4, 2017 5:21 pm at 5:21 pm #1310420
“OP’s post about baseball instead of Catholicism and trying to play at Yankee stadium”
No it would be more akin to making a spin off about playing “spiritual baseball” in the local park.
As painful as it is for true baseball aficionados to watch people desecrate our field with their heathen “Spiritual baseball” the public park unlike Yankee Stadium or The Vatican isnt private propertyJuly 4, 2017 6:34 pm at 6:34 pm #1310451
The Kosel isn’t public property.July 4, 2017 6:36 pm at 6:36 pm #1310460besalelParticipant
Ubiq: 50% of all married reformed are married to a non Jew and 80% of reformed who married since 2000 married non Jews. This is on top of the non sense conversions (which make up one in 8 reformed). If this hasn’t already happened it will happen soon: most reformed are not Jewish except by their own definition.July 4, 2017 11:04 pm at 11:04 pm #1310567adocsParticipant
As DY said, great post. The nitpickers are irrelevant. No analogy is ever perfect. Your point is made.July 5, 2017 8:30 am at 8:30 am #1310619
“The Kosel isn’t public property.”
Who owns it?July 5, 2017 12:15 pm at 12:15 pm #1310818hujuParticipant
I have no idea what the opening poster is trying to tell us.July 5, 2017 1:57 pm at 1:57 pm #1310905zahavasdadParticipant
Catholism is a hirearchcal religion meaning everyone answers to the Vatican and the pope, you cannot be against the pope and be a good catholic
Judaism isnt like that, Misnagim and Chassidim would never occur in Catholism, If there is a schism, they start another religion like the ProtestantsJuly 5, 2017 2:11 pm at 2:11 pm #1310913
And the Reform and Conservatives broke off from Judaism and started their own religions. They’re to us like the Mormons are to Catholicism.July 5, 2017 3:03 pm at 3:03 pm #1310959zahavasdadParticipant
The Vilna Gaon excommunicated the ChassidimJuly 5, 2017 3:29 pm at 3:29 pm #1310967oyyoyyoyParticipant
yaffeh meodJuly 5, 2017 3:29 pm at 3:29 pm #1310969
He only did certain ones, not all. And he never put in cherem those born after he made it. So it certainly never applied to anyone after his time. Furthermore, his talmid later removed it from those he did apply it to.
See Shu”t Nishmas Chaim #7.
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