April 22, 2019 2:22 pm at 2:22 pm #1718256SeltzerParticipant
It’s pretty simple.
All this talk about trying to make boys go out younger to solve the shidduch crisis is dumb. You know what that will accomplish? This: More young couples ill prepared to set out on a life of their own.
What needs to happen is for boys to be encouraged to date girls older than them. This is especially critical for boys who will be learning in kollel, as their wives will be the ones working, and the best way to start out a marriage like that is for the girl to already have her degree, several years of experience in the field, and making enough money to make it work.
Let’s face it: otherwise, she’s 19 years old, halfway through her college program, gets married, has a kid within a year, and then can’t finish her schooling or get a job that pays well because she has to take care of a baby/ find a babysitter that ends up costing half her paycheck, and then what happens? They struggle, leading to friction in their marriage, and who knows what else.
All because this poor guy was told to date at 21, and, naturally, wanted a younger girl.
He should be told, if you want to date at 21, you must date a girl who’s at least 24.
Solved!April 23, 2019 12:06 am at 12:06 am #1718437
Women shouldn’t be working. That’s the husband’s job.April 23, 2019 12:12 am at 12:12 am #1718433Yserbius123Participant
I agree but like all solutions it’s impracticable until the shadchanim get aboard.
At one point, there was a crisis with girls not finding guys with a plan to make a living. Our esteemed shadchanim rectified this by insisting that any guy not in full time kollel isn’t worth your time.
Originally, the crisis was thought to be guys looking for Barbie instead of Bais Yaakov. During this time period, our holy shadchanim encouraged girls to doll themselves up and send a glamour shot to the potential boy so he can drool over it.
Then it was determined that it was the age gap. Those bastions of our kedusha kept up the tradition of insisting that 19 is old enough for a girl to know what she wants in life, but a boy has to be 22.
So yes. Your idea would work. But we’re just yelling into the void over here.April 23, 2019 12:29 am at 12:29 am #1718448
Joseph, women have always worked.April 23, 2019 12:45 am at 12:45 am #1718452
RY23, not outside the home.April 23, 2019 1:28 am at 1:28 am #1718465y2rParticipant
Right on! 😂April 23, 2019 1:28 am at 1:28 am #1718457
Not all outside the home, but some.April 23, 2019 3:21 am at 3:21 am #1718469
Throughout history until relatively not that long ago it was almost unheard of for them to work outside of their home.April 23, 2019 9:59 am at 9:59 am #1718519
Joseph – “Throughout history until relatively not that long ago it was almost unheard of for them to work outside of their home.”
What kind of fiction are you spreading?
One “example” is the Chofetz Chaim’s wife who ran the store.
Women DID have businesses that they ran like a fruit stand, selling baked goods, seamstress etc. and of course stores of goods. True, they did not have corporate “office jobs” – but neither did the men (almost unheard of, with rare exceptions).April 23, 2019 10:03 am at 10:03 am #1718520SeltzerParticipant
Yserbius123, true true, on all accounts.
Jospeh, well then. Thank G-d for the internet, as there are now many career options available that can be done remotely, from the home, by women.April 23, 2019 11:10 am at 11:10 am #1718636
Mr. Rebbetzin: The Chofetz Chaim’s store was built into his house.April 23, 2019 8:36 pm at 8:36 pm #1718756LOTR92Participant
If women working bothers you so much, go to a country that follows sharia law. Those dang women can’t even leave their house without a male escort, now they know their place. (Said with extreme sarcasm, for people who didn’t figure out i was being sarcastic.)April 23, 2019 10:06 pm at 10:06 pm #1718773
“Throughout history until relatively not that long ago it was almost unheard of for them to work outside of their home.”
One of the primary reasons that women in our communities go out to work is to provide support so their husbands can learn long-term. This is especially true in larger families where it’s simply not possible for parents to finance this for all of their married children. Are you suggesting that this practice be discontinued or have you discovered some other method of paying for it?April 23, 2019 10:53 pm at 10:53 pm #1718822
Lotr92: We Yidden have something called Halacha. And both the Shulchan Aruch and Rambam (as well as the Gemorah and any other psak Halacha that discusses it) clearly rules l’Halacha to that women should not leave their home more than minimally necessary.
If you need the maare mekomos from Shulchan Aruch or Rambam, kindly ask and they’ll be happily supplied.
Phil, I’m not suggesting anything other than what Halacha clearly delineates. There may be a heter in certain circumstances, such as which you describe. But even so the heter is only to the extent absolutely necessary, and no more.April 24, 2019 1:19 am at 1:19 am #1718834yochyParticipant
That is also a viable solution as the issue is an age gap and any plan that encourages dating of a similar age will solve the problem. Thing is that all the young girls will also want to get married and that can throw things off.
i feel that if guys refuse to get started younger- the only solution that girls have is to get together and refuse to date until 20-21 at least – until the boys begin doing so.April 24, 2019 4:59 pm at 4:59 pm #1719009
“But even so the heter is only to the extent absolutely necessary, and no more.”
So once a woman calculates that she’s earned enough to buy beans and rice for the day she should tell her boss she’s going home? That may be acceptable in the public school system where you spend your time but not in the real working world. Quoting general sources that are not applicable to practical, individual situations is just using fake halacha to find fault with other Jews. But I think you know that already.April 24, 2019 10:14 pm at 10:14 pm #1719179
Phil, obviously if she can’t do that, she can’t. But she should seek a job minimizing to the extent possible her absence from the home.
The “general sources” are the Shulchan Aruch, Rambam, the Gemora and all other halachic sources addressing the issue. There are no opposing or differing halachic opinions.April 25, 2019 4:22 pm at 4:22 pm #1719451
“But she should seek a job minimizing to the extent possible her absence from the home.”
No, she and her husband should speak to their LOR to discuss her employment, especially if she needs a “real” job to support her husband’s learning or to help pay minimum tuition for their children. It doesn’t matter what your “general sources” are since their practical application will depend upon the individual guidance of their posek.
Your continuous spouting of fake halacha and chumra on issues pertaining to women demonstrates your cluelessness and animus towards them. Get help.April 25, 2019 4:38 pm at 4:38 pm #1719475
“Outside the home” used to mean something else, because homes were arranged differently.May 11, 2019 11:24 pm at 11:24 pm #1725568
I think people have become too picky in general and also care about the wrong things. And the whole resume is too muchMay 11, 2019 11:25 pm at 11:25 pm #1725566
Ideally, the boys should start dating when they are younger. It doesn’t make sense for girls and boys to wait til they are old and grey to start dating. The younger the better for both boys and girls. Easier to form a marriage and get along better because the older you get, the more you get set in your own ways.May 12, 2019 7:20 am at 7:20 am #1725588Calling it like I see itParticipant
Teach social values and praise Good behavior instead grades ofgrades and brilliance in schools.
Perhaps That shift in focus should help kids date with better ideals in mind, and age money and “what will OTHERS think about about his/her looks” won’t be the focus of the kids datingMay 12, 2019 7:20 am at 7:20 am #1725589Calling it like I see itParticipant
Also, you can work and learn and be a parent in the 16 hours you are awake each day.
In fact, sometimes when you have less time to learn but want to learn, you get right to learning when you have the chance.
Of course many that doesn’t work and we are too tired to concentrate, but that can be a lesson taught and reinforced from early age in school.
Working people learn too.May 12, 2019 11:41 am at 11:41 am #1725714GadolhadorahParticipant
Ignoring Joey’s trolling misogyny, several posts note the real trend among many frum young girls to pursue both a college degree and advanced degree that pushes back marriage a few years. Some do it exclusively for the ability to earn a better parnassah to support their husband and family while others truly want to pursue their own careers in a increasingly wider range of professions. While reliable data are hard to come by, several recent studies have shown the number of frum young women entering law school and medical school have more than doubled in the past decade. Needless to say. this itself is great for the frum tzibur but hopefully will also increase the acceptance of “younger” men realizing how fortunate they would be in connecting with a woman 3 or 4 years “older”. This 3-4 year age gap is really irrelevant in the long term if they otherwise share other values on yiddeshkeit, family timing and size, location and whether the wife will continue working outside the home once the kids are older and a second income is no longer the key factor.May 12, 2019 9:34 pm at 9:34 pm #1725926
yes it would be good for younger men to date girls who are a few years older. it doesnt really make a difference in the long run if they are only a bit older
but regarding the higher education for girls, they can get married while pursuing higher education. they dont have to wait until they are done with school to get married. i’ve seen a number of frum girls getting advanced degrees, who got married before even starting school. some even mothers of 1-2 children while in school.May 13, 2019 8:16 pm at 8:16 pm #1726545justme22Participant
If Halacha really required woman not to work out of the home you would have to ask most yeshivos why they hire woman for administrative jobs even while rabbanim go in an out .. same goes for kashrus organizations .. etc
Some things have change ( example Shulchan haruch days says walking behind a woman makes you loose your holam Haba yet the nosei Kelim already in their time say that that’s not longer true because we have become “immune” .
Also many boys are not going to want to start their dating with older girls because it often feels emasculating to date a girl who has already been dating for 6 years or a girl who has been earning well for long . I’m not saying boys should date them , I’m just saying that you can create rules all you want but the ones dating have to embrace them after years of been raised with a mother younger than the father , same with grandparents etcMay 14, 2019 12:10 pm at 12:10 pm #1726929
“Then it was determined that it was the age gap. Those bastions of our kedusha kept up the tradition of insisting that 19 is old enough for a girl to know what she wants in life, but a boy has to be 22.”
This is dumb. The boys should be 19 too. More younger boys dating would solve the shidduch crisis. The boy doesnt need to already be earning/working necessarily, maybe hes still in school but there will be a future earning potential. He can be married and in kollel, I don’t see the conflict there. Or if he has a job that doesn’t require a ton of learning prior to working, like a blue collar job no problem there.May 14, 2019 12:11 pm at 12:11 pm #1726943
“many boys are not going to want to start their dating with older girls because it often feels emasculating to date a girl who has already been dating for 6 years or a girl who has been earning well for long”
thats true. Best for boys to start dating at 19 and girls to start dating at 19May 14, 2019 3:57 pm at 3:57 pm #1726980crazykanoiyParticipant
Joseph “Women shouldn’t be working. That’s the husband’s job.”
Please keep your misogynistic comments to your self. We dont live in the dark ages. Women actually leave their houses and can hold productive jobs and have a career. Women are essential part of the American workforce and there is no reason why frum women can not hold jobs that are within the boubdries of tzniyos.
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