July 27, 2010 4:08 pm at 4:08 pm #592039
Why do people act like they don’t like what’s going on around them, when they see things they don’t like or not right and they do absolutely nothing about it?! Why do people think it ‘s OK to just sit there and watch, complain and gossip about the things they witnessed when they could’ve helped?! Gossip is not productive! Why does it help to just complain to other people?! Do something! Why does it help to complain when you did absolutely nothing???
Why do parents complain about their kids getting into trouble or not doing well when they’re never around? Why are parents surprised? Parents who work and leave their kids by the babysitter or rely the on system. Your children are your job. People think that they could blame what happens on somone else!! “This teacher ruined my childs life, that’s why he’s rebelious!” These are parents who have no part in their childrens lives. Parents who only wake up when it is too late.
Why do employees get surprised when they do not get a raise or when they are fired from their job? Why are parents suprised when their children do not want to have anything to do with them, if they were bad parents? Why do parents always think the child should forget everything they went through, at their hand?
When they manage to get a raise or promotion they are not suprised, they deserve it of course. Why don’t they deserve it when things go against them? Why do relatives think they have liscence to bully and judge each other? Why is it that people feel most comfortable abusing, emotionally and verbally the people they are closest to? Why do those same relatives think the other is supposed to get over what was done to them?
The only thing I do get is that those who are guilty of the above, are extremely self centered people. These people are only interested, when any of the above effects their world.
People need to be more sensitive to others and less concerned about themselves. People please wake up and realize there is a world out there outside of your own!!! A world you were created to take part in, not only for your own needs but as well for the needs of those in your life.
You see; your own needs are only to be fulfilled so you can be sustained in order for you to be able to continue to serve the world you live in.July 28, 2010 1:14 pm at 1:14 pm #691318fabieMember
General questions, demand general answers. There a loads of misjustices, but you can only judge individual cases individually.July 28, 2010 4:26 pm at 4:26 pm #691319SJSinNYCMember
mtornek, are you offering to pay for my kids yeshiva tuition? I would LOVE to stay home with them.July 28, 2010 5:47 pm at 5:47 pm #691320AinOhdMilvadoParticipant
I am not suggesting that these times we are living in, aren’t EXTREMELY hard financially for most people,
Most of us ARE guilty of what I call the “haftahave” syndrome. We work to have money for a lot of things we THINK we have to have!
Do we REALLY NEED all those things???
Well, some of them we do, but I think MANY of them would have been considered LUXURIES just maybe 15-20 years ago.
Maybe we need to re-assess what we REALLY need to have, and what we are sacrificing to get it.July 28, 2010 7:02 pm at 7:02 pm #691321SJSinNYCMember
If you axe Yeshiva tuition ($15,000/child) I could figure out a way to be a SAHM. So if someone wants to do that, then sure, I would love to.
Working gives me luxuries and savings, but I work because I have to, not because I want to. So I’m assuming since mtornek was being judgemental and wants to stop working mothers, he’ll step up to the plate and commit to paying my Yeshiva tuition.July 28, 2010 7:48 pm at 7:48 pm #691324apushatayidParticipant
“Do we REALLY NEED all those things???”
. Do we REALLY NEED a yeshiva tuition for our children or would public school suffice? In my family that would “save” us almost 25k a year.
. Do we REALLY NEED to send our kids to a summer camp (even a local day camp) or could we ask, at least the older ones, to get jobs stocking shelves somewhere. Could be another 4-5k a year.
. Do we REALLY NEED to support all the chessed organizations that exist (at LEAST 10% of our income).
. Do we REALLY NEED to eat kosher food? I estimate that my families food bill would be reduced by 35% if we could do away with this “luxury”.
Please explain what luxuries can be cut out of the average frum families budget so that our wives and mothers need not join the workforce.July 28, 2010 7:56 pm at 7:56 pm #691325fabieMember
Do we really need to get married. That would save a bundle, especially those living with the folks until 120.July 28, 2010 8:23 pm at 8:23 pm #691326
“Please explain what luxuries can be cut out of the average frum families budget so that our wives and mothers need not join the workforce.”
Our wives and mothers never did join the “workforce.” They have the best job of all at HOME — its called “Motherhood” and being a wife.July 29, 2010 12:57 am at 12:57 am #691327oomisParticipant
max, if what you say is true regarding where a woman’s best job is (I happen to believe it is at home, also), then why are the frum young men all going to learn and sending their wives out to earn (some with little babies already)? Your remark about them never joining the workforce is inaccurate. Today’s frum wives almost ALL are in the workforce, if not to support the family (which is the usualy case) then to help afford the exhorbitant costs of yeshivah tuition. Don’t bother to respond about cutting out luxuries, my husband and I drive a 20 year old car that we are nursing along, and have not been able to afford a vaction in almost 30 years, because the money is always going for Yeshivah, for car repairs, for braces and other medical expenses, for household emergencies, and yes, B”H for modest simchas, as well. I am not complaining, but I am explaining.July 29, 2010 1:00 am at 1:00 am #691328Dr. PepperParticipant
I don’t know you so I don’t know what generation you are.
My mother was a stay at home mom until we were all in school. My father was still in college when he started working. When they bought their first house the monthly mortgage payments were less than 25% of my fathers’ after tax salary. (It was only three years later that my father got his undergrad and started graduate school.)
Fast forward to the current generation.
Even with a PhD, I’d be lucky if only half of my salary went towards the house which is much smaller than the one I grew up in.
Expenses have risen much faster than our salaries have, not only housing but cars, health insurance, tuition, food and just about anything else. It is very hard nowadays to live off of one paycheck without external support or charity.July 29, 2010 1:01 am at 1:01 am #691329
That is the exception to the rule, where Torah study is concerned it takes priority, so sometimes the wife goes to work as a result. Even though that part isnt ideal, it is well worth it to enable Torah study. In any event, statistically I believe you are incorrect and most frum wives do not work (full time for sure) outside the home.
How did your 1990 (1989?) car last so long?July 29, 2010 1:58 am at 1:58 am #691330
This Conversation is completely off the topic!
I Encourage you all to read it again.
The article simply asks why people do not get involved.
Thank you all for your remarksJuly 29, 2010 2:08 am at 2:08 am #691331WolfishMusingsParticipant
This Conversation is completely off the topic!
When has a CR thread ever been known to stay *on* topic? 🙂
The WolfJuly 29, 2010 3:03 pm at 3:03 pm #691332Dr. PepperParticipant
In the second paragraph you mentioned that parents are never around. I was trying to explain why parents aren’t able to be with their children as much as our parents were with us.
It looks as if other posters where getting at the same issue.July 29, 2010 3:39 pm at 3:39 pm #691333TrustHashemMember
Mtornek, You sound like you are in a lot of pain. I understand your pain because I have parents like that who expected their kids to turn out perfect but had no tools as far as chinuch is concerned. They are now blaming the system, the rebbeim and everyone else around them. It is so much easier to blame things on others such as a teacher than to take the blame on ourselves. Who wants to say that my kid turned out messed up because of me?
By the way, as a working mother myself, I know that I can give my children plenty of attention, love and quality time. It is not the quantity so much as the quality! My mother was a stay at home mom and it did not make a positive impact at all.July 29, 2010 4:11 pm at 4:11 pm #691334squeakParticipant
Why are parents suprised when their children do not want to have anything to do with them, if they were bad parents?
Because normal parents, despite their many mistakes, have given their children far more good than bad, and far more good than anyone else in the world. The attitude of children “not wanting to have anything to do with” their parents is due to the children overlooking the positive and focusing only on the negative. Those children are taking all the good for granted, and focusing only on how “unfair” the negative parts were.
On Rosh Hashana, the most we hope for is that the scales tip towards good to be considered tzaddik. We do not dream that the bad side will be empty. Why should we analyze our relationship with other people to higher standards than Hashem uses in judgement?July 29, 2010 4:17 pm at 4:17 pm #691335
Instead of blaming the parents, perhaps we need to blame ourselves for our childhood.July 29, 2010 4:33 pm at 4:33 pm #691336WolfishMusingsParticipant
Instead of blaming the parents, perhaps we need to blame ourselves for our childhood.
OK, I’ll take the blame. Everything that was wrong with your childhood was my fault. 🙁
The WolfJuly 29, 2010 5:32 pm at 5:32 pm #691337TrustHashemMember
The attitude of children “not wanting to have anything to do with” their parents is due to the children overlooking the positive and focusing only on the negative.
Squeak, I agree with you. Children do need to focus on the positive. It is sometimes very hard to see positive when there is so much overwhelming negative. When a child was so hurt by parents that they don’t want to have anythink to do with them, it is a high madreiga to see the positive – but for sure something to strive for. I hope one day I will have this madreiga.
On the other hand as parents, we need to remember to always look at the positive of our children and not to let their negative behavior – whether trivial or not – overshadow their positive aspects of what they do and what they are. It is VERY EASY to forget to truly see our children’s positive behavior.July 29, 2010 7:18 pm at 7:18 pm #691338
The intent was that parents should be involved, even if they work.
Many parents do not know what their children are up to and then they are surprised about the end product.Many parents are terrible and they expect their children to just get over it.
What this means is, do not be surprised at the consequence of your actions. Every action has a reaction!
Thank youJuly 29, 2010 7:42 pm at 7:42 pm #691339squeakParticipant
TrustHashem- I am not talking about the rare cases where there is overwhelming negative. Those cases are admittedly different – there are situations where children should distance themselves from parents. I am referring to normal situations with normal parents (who make plenty of mistakes) whose children take the good for granted and judge their parents by the bad.August 1, 2010 8:41 pm at 8:41 pm #691340
Dear TrustHashem you said “Mtornek, You sound like you are in a lot of pain”
Um no I’m not, My Clients are Though. I’m Speaking out for them.August 2, 2010 2:28 am at 2:28 am #691341movingmountainsMember
Good point. So why don’t you stop complaining aabout everyone complaining and do something about it?August 2, 2010 2:43 am at 2:43 am #691342philosopherMember
mtornik, you are right. Some parents never take the time to help their kids with their issues. The busy lives they lead makes them ignore burning issues and they think it’s going to work out on their own.
Of course, then there are always people who blame their good (albiet human) parents for all their problems.
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