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I redt 2 Shidduchim to a (very desirable) girl in the summer. In these circles you dont neccessarily get the yes from the boy first. I provided all the info and the girl told me she’s interested in one and the other is too modern for her. I told her that I didnt think so, because he went out with equally frum girls through me. She dated the first and it ended. A month or two later, a friend of hers redt her the same Shidduch (the boy who I offered her and she told me was too modern for her) and they are now engaged. Both Chassan and Kallah went out through me, but not with one another (Kallah said Chassan is too modern).
I feel like I had some part in it. What do most poeople do in this case?
just know that you thought of it, feel good, and leave it. it doesnt look like youre getting shadchanus!
Don’t have any taynas if you don’t get shadchunas, taynas can cause the couple tzoros ch”v. And if you feel you deserve shadchunas and you have taynas let them know, don’t just keep it in the back of your mind, GET IT STRAIGHTENED OUT. (I’ve heard enough stories)
A “very desireable” girl? hmmmmmmmmmm
I had a similar situation, but I was not the shadchan. It was my son that got engaged. I asked my Rav what one does when someone suggested a shidduch, gave us the info, but somehow it didn’t seem interesting. A few months later someone else brought it up and it worked. My Rav said that if the second shadchan thought of it on his own then he is the only shadchan. If not, the first shadchan gets 1/3 and the second one gets 2/3. In my case the second shadchan did know that the shidduch had already been suggested and decided to bring it up again.
I agree with RB. It’s either you be them Mochel totally, or tell them outright that you expect some compensation. This is serious stuff.
I would give it up and wish them the best. I can’t stand when people only want to make shidduchim if they know they’ll get shadchanus out of it.
there are actual halachos about these things – depends on the exact situation. ask lor.
either which way, most of shadchanus goes to the in-between person, even if wasn’t one who “redt” the shidduch.
whoever “closes” the shidduch is considered the shadchan.
it’s good to ask a shaila because in your heart you really don’t want any taynos. It happened to someone i know involuntarily, where someone mentioned a boy casually, and specifically said that they didn’t want to be involved in redting the shidduch. So they got a shadchan and got engaged, and didn’t think that they owed the person who mentioned the name more than a very warm thank you as they paid the shadchan shadchanus. But the mentioner did feel wronged, never said anything, and later on the couple found out that they had taynos and felt that they should have gotten shadchanus, and everybody a little weird all around, as funny to give shadchanus after a few years or to bring up……..
Of course: Kol Hakavood for your work and dedication on shidduchim in general.
You clearly state the you were not inolved in redding this SPECIFIC shidduch nor the go between once they started. You were one (of probably many) who provided information. That is NOT a shadchan and halachically is not entitled to any form of shadchnus. If a side chooses to express their apprciaiton for your help in the past that is very kind, I happen to be a big proponent of that, but certainly no choshen mishpat obligation.
Spiral: I find the psak more thatn a little odd. A maschil (who the poskim discuss as getting 1/3) is the peron who brings about the start of a shidduch. If somoneone redds a shidduch and nohing happens for the suggestion then they are not the shadchan period. Perhpaps what your Rov meant was if you listened to the second person because you had already heard it and thus the first person was partially resposible for your giving it a shot, then the first person is a part maschiil and as such it should probably be 1/6, 5/6.
whether the second shadchan knew or didn’t know that it had been redd should NOT be relevant. What is relevant is what brought about YOUR interest in the shidduch.
Seeallsides:
The “mentioner” in your case has a legit expectation for 1/3 of standard shadchnus. He was the person who suggested it and based on your despription the boy and girls were ready to proceed and used a new person to serve as the go between.
No reason for someone to feel weird aobut paying money that has been owed for years. It probably feels much weirder to come back as a gilgul becaue they didn’t.
OC:
Coincdence or not. The money was owed and B”H it was paid. No different then failure to pay a lawyer, accountatn or any other service provider.
OC:
Coincdence or not. The money was owed and B”H it was paid. No different then failure to pay a lawyer, accountatn or any other service provider.
Ofcoure: correct. Howver with money owed, fellings are not the determining factor. Mechila of a financial obligattion certainly works, however I think that requires a explicit verbal statement to that effect. Simply not feeling owed does not absolve one of a financial obligation.
AZ- what about when you ask a boy to recommend some good boys – is he considered the mentioner? or if you go to a rosh yeshiva and ask him for a good boy’s name?
Seeallside: Mentioner (maschil in halachic terms), is the person who presents the idea to both sides as a result of which the shidduch gets off the ground.
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