March 4, 2011 4:25 am at 4:25 am #595480
I redt 2 Shidduchim to a (very desirable) girl in the summer. In these circles you dont neccessarily get the yes from the boy first. I provided all the info and the girl told me she’s interested in one and the other is too modern for her. I told her that I didnt think so, because he went out with equally frum girls through me. She dated the first and it ended. A month or two later, a friend of hers redt her the same Shidduch (the boy who I offered her and she told me was too modern for her) and they are now engaged. Both Chassan and Kallah went out through me, but not with one another (Kallah said Chassan is too modern).
I feel like I had some part in it. What do most poeople do in this case?March 4, 2011 4:39 am at 4:39 am #746738rebbitzenMember
just know that you thought of it, feel good, and leave it. it doesnt look like youre getting shadchanus!March 4, 2011 4:56 am at 4:56 am #746739real-briskerMember
Don’t have any taynas if you don’t get shadchunas, taynas can cause the couple tzoros ch”v. And if you feel you deserve shadchunas and you have taynas let them know, don’t just keep it in the back of your mind, GET IT STRAIGHTENED OUT. (I’ve heard enough stories)March 4, 2011 5:11 am at 5:11 am #746740
I did a lot more than just think of it. I gave her all the information, told her that I set him up before and that he’s not too modern….
Im not going to ask for anything, but if any CR members had this happen, what would they do?March 4, 2011 5:29 am at 5:29 am #746741s2021Member
A “very desireable” girl? hmmmmmmmmmmMarch 4, 2011 5:45 am at 5:45 am #746742spiralParticipant
I had a similar situation, but I was not the shadchan. It was my son that got engaged. I asked my Rav what one does when someone suggested a shidduch, gave us the info, but somehow it didn’t seem interesting. A few months later someone else brought it up and it worked. My Rav said that if the second shadchan thought of it on his own then he is the only shadchan. If not, the first shadchan gets 1/3 and the second one gets 2/3. In my case the second shadchan did know that the shidduch had already been suggested and decided to bring it up again.March 4, 2011 5:46 am at 5:46 am #746743smartcookieMember
I agree with RB. It’s either you be them Mochel totally, or tell them outright that you expect some compensation. This is serious stuff.March 4, 2011 5:51 am at 5:51 am #746744dunnoMember
I would give it up and wish them the best. I can’t stand when people only want to make shidduchim if they know they’ll get shadchanus out of it.March 4, 2011 8:55 am at 8:55 am #746745hanibParticipant
there are actual halachos about these things – depends on the exact situation. ask lor.
either which way, most of shadchanus goes to the in-between person, even if wasn’t one who “redt” the shidduch.March 4, 2011 2:31 pm at 2:31 pm #746746ontheballMember
whoever “closes” the shidduch is considered the shadchan.March 4, 2011 2:57 pm at 2:57 pm #746747seeallsidesParticipant
it’s good to ask a shaila because in your heart you really don’t want any taynos. It happened to someone i know involuntarily, where someone mentioned a boy casually, and specifically said that they didn’t want to be involved in redting the shidduch. So they got a shadchan and got engaged, and didn’t think that they owed the person who mentioned the name more than a very warm thank you as they paid the shadchan shadchanus. But the mentioner did feel wronged, never said anything, and later on the couple found out that they had taynos and felt that they should have gotten shadchanus, and everybody a little weird all around, as funny to give shadchanus after a few years or to bring up……..March 4, 2011 5:51 pm at 5:51 pm #746748
Of course: Kol Hakavood for your work and dedication on shidduchim in general.
You clearly state the you were not inolved in redding this SPECIFIC shidduch nor the go between once they started. You were one (of probably many) who provided information. That is NOT a shadchan and halachically is not entitled to any form of shadchnus. If a side chooses to express their apprciaiton for your help in the past that is very kind, I happen to be a big proponent of that, but certainly no choshen mishpat obligation.
Spiral: I find the psak more thatn a little odd. A maschil (who the poskim discuss as getting 1/3) is the peron who brings about the start of a shidduch. If somoneone redds a shidduch and nohing happens for the suggestion then they are not the shadchan period. Perhpaps what your Rov meant was if you listened to the second person because you had already heard it and thus the first person was partially resposible for your giving it a shot, then the first person is a part maschiil and as such it should probably be 1/6, 5/6.
whether the second shadchan knew or didn’t know that it had been redd should NOT be relevant. What is relevant is what brought about YOUR interest in the shidduch.March 4, 2011 5:54 pm at 5:54 pm #746749
The “mentioner” in your case has a legit expectation for 1/3 of standard shadchnus. He was the person who suggested it and based on your despription the boy and girls were ready to proceed and used a new person to serve as the go between.
No reason for someone to feel weird aobut paying money that has been owed for years. It probably feels much weirder to come back as a gilgul becaue they didn’t.March 4, 2011 6:37 pm at 6:37 pm #746750
I know of a case, where a family friend mentioned a Shidduch and clearly said she doesnt want to be the Shadchan. They got a Shadchan, the couple got engaged and paid the Shadchan. The family friend didnt expect a thing, she wasnt a professional. Ten years later the couple was childless and went from one Rov to another. One Rov asked if everyone involved in their Shidduch was taken care of. The couple explained. The Rov said to give something nice to the friend, now ten years later. The couple had a baby within the year.
Its a VERY good friend of mine this happened to. In this case the friend had absolutely no hard feelings, no expectations, and somehow when she was paid they had a baby.
Coincidence? Maybe, maybe not!March 4, 2011 6:51 pm at 6:51 pm #746751
Coincdence or not. The money was owed and B”H it was paid. No different then failure to pay a lawyer, accountatn or any other service provider.March 4, 2011 7:05 pm at 7:05 pm #746752
Coincdence or not. The money was owed and B”H it was paid. No different then failure to pay a lawyer, accountatn or any other service provider.March 4, 2011 7:14 pm at 7:14 pm #746753
AZ, in this case the couple and parents felt nothing was owed. The friend said she needs nothing, she’s just happy she had a part in the Shidduch. It was a very close family friend.
Kal V’ Chomer how careful we have to be when it’s not a close family friend (even if they dont expect or ask for anything).March 4, 2011 7:48 pm at 7:48 pm #746754
Ofcoure: correct. Howver with money owed, fellings are not the determining factor. Mechila of a financial obligattion certainly works, however I think that requires a explicit verbal statement to that effect. Simply not feeling owed does not absolve one of a financial obligation.March 4, 2011 10:04 pm at 10:04 pm #746755seeallsidesParticipant
AZ- what about when you ask a boy to recommend some good boys – is he considered the mentioner? or if you go to a rosh yeshiva and ask him for a good boy’s name?March 6, 2011 12:47 am at 12:47 am #746756
Seeallside: Mentioner (maschil in halachic terms), is the person who presents the idea to both sides as a result of which the shidduch gets off the ground.
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