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Maybe I am not suppose to think this way because I am a frum Yid. But i see a serious problem happening here! The problem is that there is information we could access and educate ourselves with on the internet that is not going to pass the internet filters when it comes to some health issues where the part of the human body is a word that doesnt pass. FOr example, a woman is considering a homebirth, (because of current modern trends in child birth). And yet, as a yiddishe mama, she wants to be responsible and educate herself about the serious risks she may be taking (on her baby’s account) and the dangers involved in home birth. Now because we are worried about some bocherim educating themselves about where babies come from, she will not be able to encounter that information? And we as yidden cannot counter act the advances that homebirth advocating is having and making in the heimishe community.
Or if a man has an issue with his prostate or other issues, can he not research this? Its just ridiculous! What if someone wants to go to medical school? It would be considered ossur to access the unfiltered web ? Oh for goodness sakes. …?
I am afraid to speak out against the ruling of the gedolim and against the tachunas, but can someone please discuss or address these points I am raising? And I am NOT speaking out against them. I have emuna in the chachamim, but dont I have a point?
please enlighten me.
Same here. For me, there is the practical matter of being unable to use a filter for technical reasons (a filter simply wouldn’t work for me).
But aside from being an IT professional I am also quite deeply involved in medical things; I studied medicine in the past for a while and this continues to be a major interest. And no, I do not shy away from any subject. I learn about gynecology-related subjects as much as about neurology or infectious disease. I am not going to censore what I learn.
The filters we need is for loshon hora sites, kefira sites, anti-gedolim sites, anti-rabbonim site, anti-kollel sites, anti-creation sites, shmutz sites, heretical sites, and the like. Not for health related sites.
You could always log in at the library to get access to these issues. I mean, isn’t that why the bocherim are at the library?
you do raise an interesting point. And though i wont opine, i do want to say that self-diagnosing and looking up medical info on the net is usually not the nest idea. If someone wants to find out abt homebirth, etc, they should speak to their doctor who can give them the relevant and researched pros, cons and info. So maybe this limit of filters IS good 🙂
If this is your only reason for not having a filter then for one off or temporary projects like these you can always go to public access computers or a computer you know is unfiltered someplace. This is much safer than leaving your computer always unfiltered just in case you need to research a topic like this. That’s like saying I wont put a child gate by my stairs even though I have a small baby crawling around just in case one day my grandmother comes to stay and she finds it difficult to open the gate.
I think you think Jewish filters are more unforgiving than they really are. I have Jnet at home, and I think they’ve achieved a pretty good balance between caution and reason. Also, there were one or two times where they blocked things that were really okay, and I emailed them about it and they unblocked them.
Every rule has exceptions and not every filter is the same. Use seichel. Get a filter that fits your needs. If you have a husband and/or children at home make separate accounts for them with different filters. They announced at the asifa that TAG is available for free to work with you to “kasher” your devices. It was mentioned that each person should work with their own Rav to make their own gedorim. There is no one size fits all. The message was to use a filter, the meaning of this is different for each person.
Where is TAG and how do you get their help with filters?
if that is your problem then why don’t you use a nonjewish filter? Many nonjewish filters allow you to block sites based on the type of content (which you can choose) and don’t work based off of keywords or pictures.
They announced at the asifa that TAG is available for free to work with you to “kasher” your devices.
Torah Academy for Girls?
Where is TAG
in bayswater?
how do you get their help with filters?
I’m guessing you call them up
Most filters filter the type of site rather or besides the text content. You can always add a site or a category of sites to the white-list. Either you can do it yourself or you can call/email the customer service and they add it in.
‘Ternet Asifa Gelungen! TAG!
smartcookie,
gelungen?
Coffee- sorry, it had to begin with the letter g 🙂
SaysMe -“you do raise an interesting point. And though i wont opine, i do want to say that self-diagnosing and looking up medical info on the net is usually not the nest idea. If someone wants to find out abt homebirth, etc, they should speak to their doctor who can give them the relevant and researched pros, cons and info.”
As a member of the medical profession, you are a little right and mostly wrong. Self -diagnosing is never a good idea. OTOH, researching medical info in general or about specific diseases or about something you were diagnosed with is a good idea. As far as needing it at home -so you don’t need a filter -you can go to a library. This really isn’t a reason not to filter. And btw, what Doc would you ask about homebirth? Your PCP? I’m sure they don’t know too much about it. Your Ob? Almost all of them would tell you No homebirth. I happen to agree, but that’s irrelevant. So if you want the other side, you’d have to talk to women who delivered at home, midwives who practice in birthing centers and/or home settings. And one of the better ways to make a decision is to research this Online.
“who can give them the relevant and researched pros, cons and info.”
You make it sound like med prof are walking computers with photographic memories.
Why can’t we make believe that we cannot access that info and get the info the same way hundreds did years ago…… Mds, friends and public info. It could still work.
health- i was waiting for u to comment on my post. Knew you would! Re:home births: so ask midwives and doulas! But yes, i agree with ur argument abt doctors not neccesarily having as much abt homebirth, tho they hopefully know one’s particular health concerns and of any birth issues that are likely, etc.
And drs as computers? Wld u question my wording if i’d said to consult a psychologist abt relevant n researched pros cons n info of a therapy? 🙂 Don’t worry, there are drs in my family too, and i know medical proffesionals are ppl too. Just more knowledgable in their particular field than a mother probably, just like most professionals in their particular fields.
Smartcookie,
What does it mean? Gezunt also starts with g btw
Doesnt TAG stand for The wolf, Always runs with scissors, & Gefen?
As someone with IT experience I recommend openDNS.
SaysMe -I’m not advocating Not asking Med Prof. That’s part of our job. What bothered me about your post is that it seemed that you meant that you can totally rely on Med Prof. In our day and age, with new advances coming out daily, unless that’s his/hers actual field, the likelihood on them knowing the latest in that field is not too great. For the pt’s best interest they should research it themselves. Not everything about the Net is bad. The instant access to info has saved many lives.
And I can’t count how many times just from reading the regular News, not medical sites, I’ve found out about the latest in medicine -the same time as e/o else.
Of course, one must be very careful what medical sites you visit -there is a lot of phony stuff out there. Emedicine/webmd is very reliable.
“she wants to be responsible and educate herself about the serious risks she may be taking (on her baby’s account) and the dangers involved in home birth.”
One can always temporarily (or even permanently)add a site like webmd or mayoclinic.com to the list of permitted sites (as long as they are the administrator).
You have some old misconceptions about filters. Most current filters, for example K9 and OpenDNS, have many different categories to allow and disallow. The types of sites you are referring to can be easily allowed, while still block almost all the filth on the internet.
I love seeing all the reasons people have to not have filters. It seems that the Yetzer Horah is hard at work feeding misinformation and misconceptions.
You say there are misconceptions about filters. People think filters are slow. They will not be able to access sites they need for research, business, shopping etc. How come no one got up and demonstrated on the screen exactly how the filters work. Showing you can have a filter and still access sites you need to access.
Also nobody talked about the positive aspects of the internet. They made it sound like every house with an internet is like having a loaded gun. You can use the internet to learn torah, the daf, find kosher food when traveling, keep in touch with friends and relatives who live far away. Research information on repairs, medical info etc. Go to shoool and get a degree online instead of having to sit with goyim in a classroom. Many businesses will not communicate with you on the phone and you are forced to go online or use email.
Not all of the internet is bad. It has to be used properly. It can be very dangerous for children. There is lots of garbage online. What are the guidelines? What age can a child be allowed to use filtered internet to look up information to do a school report for example. What are the suggested filtering options? How should they be used?
I was in the tennis stadium and do not understand much Yiddish. For some reason we did not have English translation of the speeches. It sounded like every speaker was bashing the internet like it was food from McDonald’s. I did not hear anything positive. There are many people who go online to listen or download shurim.
It seemed to me that the Rabbis who spoke were against the internet even with a filter? Can someone who understands Yiddish please verify this.
It seemed to me that the Rabbis who spoke were against the internet even with a filter? Can someone who understands Yiddish please verify this
I understand very little Yiddish, but I did hear constant bashing the internet in Yiddish (The Language was foreign, but the message was clear)
I understood
The Internet is the Chochma of Behamoth
The Interent is the Tumah of Mitzrayimg
Lessons learned at the asifa:
1) the internet is assur
2) it is pronounced the interNet
3) We must apologize whenever we speak English
4) Zionism is evil
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