May 21, 2012 4:26 pm at 4:26 pm #603514
Maybe I am not suppose to think this way because I am a frum Yid. But i see a serious problem happening here! The problem is that there is information we could access and educate ourselves with on the internet that is not going to pass the internet filters when it comes to some health issues where the part of the human body is a word that doesnt pass. FOr example, a woman is considering a homebirth, (because of current modern trends in child birth). And yet, as a yiddishe mama, she wants to be responsible and educate herself about the serious risks she may be taking (on her baby’s account) and the dangers involved in home birth. Now because we are worried about some bocherim educating themselves about where babies come from, she will not be able to encounter that information? And we as yidden cannot counter act the advances that homebirth advocating is having and making in the heimishe community.
Or if a man has an issue with his prostate or other issues, can he not research this? Its just ridiculous! What if someone wants to go to medical school? It would be considered ossur to access the unfiltered web ? Oh for goodness sakes. …?
I am afraid to speak out against the ruling of the gedolim and against the tachunas, but can someone please discuss or address these points I am raising? And I am NOT speaking out against them. I have emuna in the chachamim, but dont I have a point?
please enlighten me.May 21, 2012 6:59 pm at 6:59 pm #878378
Same here. For me, there is the practical matter of being unable to use a filter for technical reasons (a filter simply wouldn’t work for me).
But aside from being an IT professional I am also quite deeply involved in medical things; I studied medicine in the past for a while and this continues to be a major interest. And no, I do not shy away from any subject. I learn about gynecology-related subjects as much as about neurology or infectious disease. I am not going to censore what I learn.May 21, 2012 7:06 pm at 7:06 pm #878379shmoelMember
The filters we need is for loshon hora sites, kefira sites, anti-gedolim sites, anti-rabbonim site, anti-kollel sites, anti-creation sites, shmutz sites, heretical sites, and the like. Not for health related sites.May 21, 2012 7:20 pm at 7:20 pm #878380Kosher HamMember
You could always log in at the library to get access to these issues. I mean, isn’t that why the bocherim are at the library?May 21, 2012 7:35 pm at 7:35 pm #878381SaysMeMember
you do raise an interesting point. And though i wont opine, i do want to say that self-diagnosing and looking up medical info on the net is usually not the nest idea. If someone wants to find out abt homebirth, etc, they should speak to their doctor who can give them the relevant and researched pros, cons and info. So maybe this limit of filters IS good 🙂May 21, 2012 8:51 pm at 8:51 pm #878382Shticky GuyParticipant
If this is your only reason for not having a filter then for one off or temporary projects like these you can always go to public access computers or a computer you know is unfiltered someplace. This is much safer than leaving your computer always unfiltered just in case you need to research a topic like this. That’s like saying I wont put a child gate by my stairs even though I have a small baby crawling around just in case one day my grandmother comes to stay and she finds it difficult to open the gate.May 21, 2012 8:59 pm at 8:59 pm #878383OneOfManyParticipant
I think you think Jewish filters are more unforgiving than they really are. I have Jnet at home, and I think they’ve achieved a pretty good balance between caution and reason. Also, there were one or two times where they blocked things that were really okay, and I emailed them about it and they unblocked them.May 21, 2012 9:56 pm at 9:56 pm #878384YW Moderator-42Moderator
Every rule has exceptions and not every filter is the same. Use seichel. Get a filter that fits your needs. If you have a husband and/or children at home make separate accounts for them with different filters. They announced at the asifa that TAG is available for free to work with you to “kasher” your devices. It was mentioned that each person should work with their own Rav to make their own gedorim. There is no one size fits all. The message was to use a filter, the meaning of this is different for each person.May 21, 2012 10:00 pm at 10:00 pm #878385CsarMember
Where is TAG and how do you get their help with filters?May 21, 2012 10:29 pm at 10:29 pm #878387USE YOUR BRAINMember
if that is your problem then why don’t you use a nonjewish filter? Many nonjewish filters allow you to block sites based on the type of content (which you can choose) and don’t work based off of keywords or pictures.May 22, 2012 2:06 am at 2:06 am #878388
They announced at the asifa that TAG is available for free to work with you to “kasher” your devices.
Torah Academy for Girls?
Where is TAG
how do you get their help with filters?
I’m guessing you call them upMay 22, 2012 2:36 am at 2:36 am #878389HaLeiViParticipant
Most filters filter the type of site rather or besides the text content. You can always add a site or a category of sites to the white-list. Either you can do it yourself or you can call/email the customer service and they add it in.May 22, 2012 3:18 am at 3:18 am #878390smartcookieMember
‘Ternet Asifa Gelungen! TAG!May 22, 2012 3:23 am at 3:23 am #878391
gelungen?May 22, 2012 4:26 am at 4:26 am #878392smartcookieMember
Coffee- sorry, it had to begin with the letter g 🙂May 22, 2012 4:38 am at 4:38 am #878393HealthParticipant
SaysMe -“you do raise an interesting point. And though i wont opine, i do want to say that self-diagnosing and looking up medical info on the net is usually not the nest idea. If someone wants to find out abt homebirth, etc, they should speak to their doctor who can give them the relevant and researched pros, cons and info.”
As a member of the medical profession, you are a little right and mostly wrong. Self -diagnosing is never a good idea. OTOH, researching medical info in general or about specific diseases or about something you were diagnosed with is a good idea. As far as needing it at home -so you don’t need a filter -you can go to a library. This really isn’t a reason not to filter. And btw, what Doc would you ask about homebirth? Your PCP? I’m sure they don’t know too much about it. Your Ob? Almost all of them would tell you No homebirth. I happen to agree, but that’s irrelevant. So if you want the other side, you’d have to talk to women who delivered at home, midwives who practice in birthing centers and/or home settings. And one of the better ways to make a decision is to research this Online.
“who can give them the relevant and researched pros, cons and info.”
You make it sound like med prof are walking computers with photographic memories.May 22, 2012 5:17 am at 5:17 am #878394RABBAIMParticipant
Why can’t we make believe that we cannot access that info and get the info the same way hundreds did years ago…… Mds, friends and public info. It could still work.May 22, 2012 5:40 am at 5:40 am #878395SaysMeMember
health- i was waiting for u to comment on my post. Knew you would! Re:home births: so ask midwives and doulas! But yes, i agree with ur argument abt doctors not neccesarily having as much abt homebirth, tho they hopefully know one’s particular health concerns and of any birth issues that are likely, etc.
And drs as computers? Wld u question my wording if i’d said to consult a psychologist abt relevant n researched pros cons n info of a therapy? 🙂 Don’t worry, there are drs in my family too, and i know medical proffesionals are ppl too. Just more knowledgable in their particular field than a mother probably, just like most professionals in their particular fields.May 22, 2012 11:37 am at 11:37 am #878396
What does it mean? Gezunt also starts with g btwMay 22, 2012 2:48 pm at 2:48 pm #878398Shticky GuyParticipant
Doesnt TAG stand for The wolf, Always runs with scissors, & Gefen?May 22, 2012 3:31 pm at 3:31 pm #878399ItcheSrulikMember
As someone with IT experience I recommend openDNS.May 22, 2012 6:47 pm at 6:47 pm #878400HealthParticipant
SaysMe -I’m not advocating Not asking Med Prof. That’s part of our job. What bothered me about your post is that it seemed that you meant that you can totally rely on Med Prof. In our day and age, with new advances coming out daily, unless that’s his/hers actual field, the likelihood on them knowing the latest in that field is not too great. For the pt’s best interest they should research it themselves. Not everything about the Net is bad. The instant access to info has saved many lives.
And I can’t count how many times just from reading the regular News, not medical sites, I’ve found out about the latest in medicine -the same time as e/o else.
Of course, one must be very careful what medical sites you visit -there is a lot of phony stuff out there. Emedicine/webmd is very reliable.May 22, 2012 7:13 pm at 7:13 pm #878401apushatayidParticipant
“she wants to be responsible and educate herself about the serious risks she may be taking (on her baby’s account) and the dangers involved in home birth.”
One can always temporarily (or even permanently)add a site like webmd or mayoclinic.com to the list of permitted sites (as long as they are the administrator).May 22, 2012 8:40 pm at 8:40 pm #878402bp27Participant
You have some old misconceptions about filters. Most current filters, for example K9 and OpenDNS, have many different categories to allow and disallow. The types of sites you are referring to can be easily allowed, while still block almost all the filth on the internet.
I love seeing all the reasons people have to not have filters. It seems that the Yetzer Horah is hard at work feeding misinformation and misconceptions.May 22, 2012 11:27 pm at 11:27 pm #878403Midwood YidParticipant
You say there are misconceptions about filters. People think filters are slow. They will not be able to access sites they need for research, business, shopping etc. How come no one got up and demonstrated on the screen exactly how the filters work. Showing you can have a filter and still access sites you need to access.
Also nobody talked about the positive aspects of the internet. They made it sound like every house with an internet is like having a loaded gun. You can use the internet to learn torah, the daf, find kosher food when traveling, keep in touch with friends and relatives who live far away. Research information on repairs, medical info etc. Go to shoool and get a degree online instead of having to sit with goyim in a classroom. Many businesses will not communicate with you on the phone and you are forced to go online or use email.
Not all of the internet is bad. It has to be used properly. It can be very dangerous for children. There is lots of garbage online. What are the guidelines? What age can a child be allowed to use filtered internet to look up information to do a school report for example. What are the suggested filtering options? How should they be used?
I was in the tennis stadium and do not understand much Yiddish. For some reason we did not have English translation of the speeches. It sounded like every speaker was bashing the internet like it was food from McDonald’s. I did not hear anything positive. There are many people who go online to listen or download shurim.
It seemed to me that the Rabbis who spoke were against the internet even with a filter? Can someone who understands Yiddish please verify this.May 30, 2012 5:29 pm at 5:29 pm #878405
For example, I am now in a public jewish internet place, online, with the JNET, but I am getting weird looks from every heimishe little girl who comes in with her mommy to buy some other services they offer at the counter. (not computer related). I just think its very closed minded and ridiculous that this heimishe community is now going to brand every woman who sits on a computer as a bum or whatever else they are thinking on me.May 30, 2012 8:00 pm at 8:00 pm #878406zahavasdadParticipant
It seemed to me that the Rabbis who spoke were against the internet even with a filter? Can someone who understands Yiddish please verify this
I understand very little Yiddish, but I did hear constant bashing the internet in Yiddish (The Language was foreign, but the message was clear)
The Internet is the Chochma of Behamoth
The Interent is the Tumah of MitzrayimgMay 31, 2012 7:00 pm at 7:00 pm #878407abcdefghijklmnopParticipant
Lessons learned at the asifa:
1) the internet is assur
2) it is pronounced the interNet
3) We must apologize whenever we speak English
4) Zionism is evilJune 6, 2012 6:30 pm at 6:30 pm #878408
voldemort, I dont know which asifa you attended but that is not what happened at the Kinis 2 weeks ago.
No one ever said internet is assur. its assur to use internet with out a filter and no one apologized for their use of english.
but yeah, zionism is pure evil.
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