I need advice on how to handle this please

Home Forums Decaffeinated Coffee I need advice on how to handle this please

Viewing 50 posts - 1 through 50 (of 50 total)
  • Author
  • #599352

    So were your typical litvishe family. All my brothers and brothers in law are in kollel ever since they got married (my father just recently went to work as a rebbi)One of my sisters married someone with a strong chassidishe background (she’s also a bit different than the rest of us)and now her husband went to work. FIVE AND A HALF MONTHS AFTER THEIR WEDDING!! My parents are livid and they make the house very akward and tense especially when they visit. Theyr also constantly talking against them when they arent here (to me and my other siblings)My father is not talking to my brotherinlaw and sister. I dont’ know anyone is our entire extended family or our friends who ever wnet to work so soon after their wedding. And I am embarresed and worried about how this will affect my shidduchim. How should I deal with the tension at home? Should I talk to my parents-if yes, what should I say? and what should i tell my friends? Also its wierd for me being around my sister because she’s sort of going agains what we were taught…Sorry for going on and on. Dont know who else to ask.Thnx. 🙂


    Is it jsut the fact that they are working, or is there more than that…

    Be Happy

    byanonymous: Be strong Remember your sister and brother in law are not chas vsholom doing any aveiros. I understand the situation must be very stressful. Do you know how your sister feels? Be kind to her. I would suggest you show the couple respect but don’t hurt your parents feelings. Your parents are in shock – they too need time. Hatzlocho.


    I agree with your parents. Working and supporting yourself is a TERRIBLE thing…


    no its just that he’s working. and so soon.


    I am sorry you are going through this, but Hashem should help you that this should be the least of your problems.

    If it effects your shidduchim, then whoever will have a problem with it obviously isn’t your zivug. To let something so insignificant get in the way of going out with someone, you wouldnt deserve them anyway. Don’t be embaressed. The only person it harms is yourself. A Kollel life, as beautiful as it is, is not for everyone. Dont judge them, but try to respect them and love them anyway. If you find it in your heart not to judge them, them maybe you will find your zivug very easily, because you will also find someone who wont judge them. You cant expect something of someone else, if it isnt a part of you as well.

    I wish you much hatzlacha.


    “she’s also a bit different than the rest of us”

    bingo! different people need different things a cookie cutter is not for everyone. If your sister is happy so be it your parents will get used to it.


    When did working become an Aveira

    YW Moderator-20

    Learn to respect other Jews even though they are different than you. Your brother in law is doing nothing wrong. As long as they are Ehrlich, it’ s just too bad on your parents. They will have to accept their child’s lifestyle.


    As much as you dont want to hear this, your parents are wrong in discussing this with the rest of the family. Probably lots of lashon hara and rechilus and possibly some motsi shem ra for good measure going around the house right now. The only one who must agree with the decision of your brother in law, is your sister. Can we assume he make the decision in consultation with his Rebbe or Rav?

    You should stay out of it. When your parents discuss this walk away, you are not obligated to listen. If your parents keep this up, your sister and brother in law will stop visiting altogether and will probably break off contact. Do your parents want that?

    As for your shidduch, if your parents keep badmouthing your sister and brother in law it will eventually get around. the other side will probably start to say things about your parents. Then 3rd parties will get involved (to defend the honor of their chashuve friends). Word will get around, do you think anyone would want to touch your family with a ten foot pole?

    Your parents have a right to disagree with his decision to go to work. As adults, they might want to try having a rational discussion with their daughter and son in law to understand what is behind his decision. They dont have to agree with it, just respect the fact that he made a decision that they disagree with.

    There is surely more going on than just this.


    By being tense and constantly talking about it, will not cause the issue to go away. and will possibly escalate it… and can chas veshalom lead your family to “looking’ Much worse!!! it would be the worset thing for them to have shalom bayis problems because of the tenssion that your parents have caused. of course the are emotional about it, since it’s thier dear child who they had many hopes and aspirations for, however they can’t allow emotions to get ahold of logic!!! for it can lead to higher detriment to them and your family if the fire is not put out now!!! what is done is done. they cant turn back they have to come to terms with it. and not make the situation worse!

    Maybe step in and suggest a devorce chas vesholam… that would definitely make your parents realise what they are playing with!!

    Hashem has decided that your family either have this reputation, or a different reputation. It’s all in the hands of hashem! and there is a reason for everything!!

    Feif Un

    Your parents have real problems. It seems their love for your sister (and maybe all their children) is not unconditional, as it should be. They love her only if she conforms to their standards, where her husband will sit and learn for a long time. Tell them to get over themselves.


    “Theyr also constantly talking against them when they arent here (to me and my other siblings)My father is not talking to my brotherinlaw and sister.”

    IMHO and please be moichel me for expressing it bluntly, your parents’ actions are far worse than the fact that your brother-in-law is (horrors!) manning up and actually supporting his wife on his own. Unless there is much more to this story than you have mentioned, and your BIL is perhaps a nasty, disrespectful, selfish, unfriendly louse, your parents seem to be in need of a good talking to by a sensitive Rov. Your sister and her husband may not be following your family’s strict litvish derech (and not all litvish act as they do, either, btw), but if they are following the Torah life, and are nice people, your parents should be grateful that their daughter is married to a mensch, and not act in a way that will surely cause sholom bayis problems down the line.


    Byanonymous- Wait a second! You’re father just started working???? How did he support your family while you were growing up?? Something doesn’t make sense here!






    It is truly a beautiful thing, for those who are able to swing it, to learn in kollel full-time. You mention that basically everyone you know lives this lifestyle. Well, believe it or not, they are not the majority. Most frum guys actually work. It does not make them less of a Ben Torah, less ehrich, less of a Yirei Shomayim.


    Your father is not wrong for feeling the way he does, but his choice of response can permanently damage a relationship, with far reaching repercussions. He is sending a very confused mixed message that torah is everything to him, and that he does not have to keep mitzvos bein adam lechaveiro if someone rejects (his idea) of a full torah lifestyle. He has forgotten that derech eretz kadma letorah. You may not be the one to effectively remind him of this. Speak to your father’s rav and explain how this is ripping your family apart.

    Your father may think that by expressing his displeasure it will influence them. Problem is, it might influence them to pull away and he could lose the opportunity to have a relationship with his future grandchildren.

    It sounds like you come from a family that is committed to Torah. Try to view your life with emunah that H’ will bring you whoever is your intended one, and he will not discount you over the choices of a sibling.

    You never stated how you feel about your sister’s choice of lifestyle. Do you view it as rejecting frumkeit? If so, it’s no surprise that you would fear someone else rejecting you over the same judgements. If, however, you continue to view them as frum, albeit having made different choices about how to lead a frum lifestyle, then you might attract someone with a like minded point of view (who believes in ailu v’ailu divrei…..).


    Firstly, you didn’t mention who was supporting your sister and brother-in-law as well as all the rest of your siblings while they are in Kollel. It would seem that your brother-in-law wishes to be mekayem the mitzvah of being mepharnes his own family. And might feel that if your father-in-law had to go to work to support all the “learners” he did not want to be a burden to him.

    In addition, just because he doesn’t learn full time, does not mean he doesn’t learn. It is wrong to judge them and speak about them in negative terms.

    You are asking what you should do. Stop listening to Loshan Horan. Do NOT get involved in the exchange. “Forgive me Tatty but I refuse to listen to Loshon Horah about my sister and brother-in-law”. There are two sets of homes and values that this couple were raised in. It seems that your brother-in-law was raised to be a mentch!


    Let the critics try this:

    GET A JOB, and you’ll see its not the averah its made out to be.

    As for poppa who is now a melamed, for him, I have nothing but respect. And if he thinks his working son-in-law is giving him agmas nefesh, check back with him in 6 months. He may have a new appreciation for what is considered agmas nefesh.

    Working S-I-L will likely be the least of his problems.


    And as far as this jeprodizing your shidduch prospects, don’t let that worry you. It may close a door or two, but a working B-I-L will open doors for you that you’d have never been redt to otherwise.

    Ignore the hype. Choose substance and you’ll live happily ever after.


    I personally think the parents are upset with the Shidduch because he is Chasiddish. So no matter what he does, they will find something wrong with it!

    am yisrael chai

    A major goal in life should be that learning Torah and living Torah principles should be one and the same. ?? ????? ????? ??? ?????; it’s not just the learning Torah that’s the essential point but actually living it.

    The principles espoused by your dear parents are clearly NOT Torah-based. Hashem erases His own name for the sake of shalom (sotah); that’s how much He values Shalom. Shalom is even one of Hashem’s names. Bentching ends with shalom, shmone esrei has it towards the end, kaddish…Hashem’s “signature” is shalom.

    Another MAJOR Torah principle not being adhered to is lashon hara, rechilus, etc. There are MANY aveiros for each time something is being said.

    Another Torah principle is that the way we treat others, Hashem will treat us. E.g., if we are judgmental of others, Hashem will be judgmental of us on ??? ????. Elul is a perfect time to show ???? ??????.

    Remember that Rabbi Akiva’s very learned talmidim died because ??? ?????? ????? ?? ???, they didn’t give each other the proper respect. The behavior ??? ??? ????? counted by Hashem MORE than the amount of Torah they had amassed. ??? ???- the idea is to LIVE the Torah that we are learning.

    ???? was a brilliant Torah scholar, but ?????? was his downfall (no pun intended).

    Even though ??? ???? was correct and should have married Yaakov immediately, she preserved a family member’s honor and gave her the ??????, and it was because OF THIS that Hashem listened to her when requesting compassion for Hashem’s children by the churban/golus. It was ROCHEL’s act of compassion towards a family member that appeased Hashem, not the myriads of Torah scholars and tzaddikim. Something to think about.

    The Chofetz Chayim wouldn’t have been a good enough son-in-law for your parents, as the CC had a day job as a storekeeper. Dovid Hamelech wouldn’t have been a good enough son-in-law either, as he was a blue-collar shepherd from a VERY young age.

    When your parents learn to see the GOOD qualities of their SIL and FOCUS on those, that’s when Hashem will focus on your parents’ good qualities. It’s also when Hashem will reward them for preserving peace in the family and not harboring resentment in their hearts.

    Your father may even wish to become his SIL’s chavrusa for an hour or so, imparting his love for Torah in a positive way.

    This situation is quite easy for all of us to see on the outside, as we posters seem to be of the same mind.

    Sometimes when one is in a situation, it is harder to see the clarity as someone on the outside.

    I do not believe you should look away from the situation. Tell your parents the ideas expressed by the posters in a letter. You should strongly consider speaking to the family rav and present the issue. Nipping the problem in the bud is MUCH better than letting the problem fester until it becomes much more difficult to repair ???.

    ????? ??? and please let us know how it’s going, if you can.


    thanks everyone for your replies. Many of you assumed correctly that my BIL is a very nice guy. My sister seems really happy and he has a shiur also every day. About my parents, I cannpt tell them what to say or not to say. I especially can’t take my sisters side because that will make them disappointed (and maybe angry)in me too. I also don’t want to be disrespectful.

    I guess it just bothers me seeing my parents go crazy. I mean, it’s hard for me bec. ppl talk about it and its weird. But I guess I wish they would be proud of him for doing wahts right for him. and for my sister supporting him. It hurts me that they are acting this way.

    Now I’m getting all confused. I mean, its a little scary to think that my parents would react this way if it was me. I guess I feel a little resentful to them.I was thinking about this last night and I don’t want to marry someone who my parents will respect only as long as he lives like they want. Uch, whatever. I still have time to think abt that. Sorry. guess I’m just trying to sort out my feelings. Weird, bec i always thought the cr shoud not be for venting.


    “Theyr also constantly talking against them when they arent here (to me and my other siblings)”

    During one of these conversations, why dont you tell them that you love them and when the time comes you want to marry someone that they will love, but this whole situation makes you scared. After all, there is only one of your father, you cant marry your father (i’m assuming your mother is happy with her choice).

    When someone is venting their feelings, you have to be careful not to get judgemental or say something that’ll set them off and get defensive. otherwise what you say just comes across as attacks and not what you wanted to say.

    I feel that expressing yourself is helpful. maybe this can help your parents understand that you are suffering from their negative comments.

    am yisrael chai


    Can you write your parents a note?

    Can you ask your rav for guidance?


    Maybe it is best to stay quiet, depending on your age, and just walk away when the loshon horah starts. If they ask where you are going, you can say “I was raised neither to speak nor to listen to lotion horah!” That should make an impression on them.


    Hashem sends customized nisayon for each family, forcing all to look at themselves to see what needs changing.


    im in kollel. ive never heard a more disturbing post. i dont mean the sheltered-keit shebo, thats fine. but such a reaction? not understandable in any case.


    It was written that the brother in law is a little chassidish. I know many many many chassidim and most of them are working. In fact, many work in the diamond district. Besides for the fact that I think it is ridiculous for a family to be upset that there daughter and son in law decided that it was time for him to go work. And you’re scared of a shidduch?! I really really really never say this and I don’t know if I should but I smell troll here. It makes no sense to me that you would be scared of your shidduch being shtered because of the fact that your sibling decided that it was time for her family to have a parnassa coming in to the home.

    I seriously do not understand this attitude at all.

    golden mom

    being very involved in litvish and chassidish shudduchim i can tell u that learning means very diffrent for both sides he said hes gonna learn and probably by his family and friends they all learned for a year or less maybe nobody asked him how long he intended to learn maybe the assummed he would learn forever and im also assuming that ur parents were not so involved in the shidduch cuz y would they take a chassish boy which i think is more the problem for them than anything else (not that there is wrong with litvish and chassidish marring)


    it’s funny, because I live in a home which is the opposite. I want my husband and me iyH to live a kollel life (at least for the first few years), but since I grew up MO, my parents would not be thrilled.. but I hope that after a few months they will get used to it and be accepting..

    Your parents probably just need a few months (or even longer) to get used to it.. so hopefully soon everything will get back to normal.

    I’m sure it is hard for you at home, especially because you don’t want to hear bad things about your siblings. I agree with am yisrael chai- maybe you can write them a letter explaining in a respectful, well thought out note that you don’t really want to hear about it anymore and explain why.

    Hatzlacha Raba


    Whoa. This is a tough one. It’s terribly painful to see one’s parents acting in a wrong way. And it’s even more painful when they’re doing it against your sister.

    First of all, our home is also Torahdik. My mother’s working and my father is still in kollel. My brothers and brothers in law are all learning (although they’re still in their 20’s). And I fervently pray and hope that my husband will learn, too. BUT, I can’t put him into a cookie cutter. What if I simply can’t go out and work? What if he WANTS to work? Honestly, I don’t know how I’d react to that. It would be terribly difficult for me as my lifelong dream was to marry a ben Torah. Nevertheless, if he’s a good spouse who’s treating me well, I’d have to allow him to work. An aiyshes chayil is supposed to support her husband’s decisions (unless it’s against the Torah). Also, it’s the husband’s responsibility to bring parnassa. If the wife’s willing to take it upon herself – ashrecha. But it’s no mitzva to overwork and be on the verge of breaking down r”l while your husband’s learning. Perhaps this was the case with your sister.

    I’d suggest that you have a talk with your parents (or one parent whichever one you feel close to). Tell them how torn you and your sister feel. Try pointing out that your brother in law’s really a nice guy who seemingly treats your sister well, and how happy your sister seems to be with him.

    My aunt married a great talmid chacham. Who also happened to be an abuser. How’s that for a spouse? Learning isn’t EVERYTHING. Ask them if they’d rather have a SIL who learns but is abusive or one with fine middos who works. Also, talk or write to your sister. She probably feels so lost and alone. Her husband wants one thing while her family rejects her because she’s supporting him. Just tell her that you love her, regardless of anything. You don’t have to feel it – just say it. Save the relationship while there’s still a chance.

    Hatzlacha rabba.


    (first of all I apologize in advance for offense one may take, but this is an anti-sholom Machlokes, against e/t the torah stands for.)

    It makes one wonder if this could be the reason as to why lakewood an “Extreme” Makom Torah, has so many youngsters otd R”L.


    Did he speak to a Rov? what he’s doing is Assur!


    Married a Goy or something. This makes me sick.

    How do people who claim to learn the torah and respect it,

    miss the boat so royally????!!!! Whoa!

    It’s this type of mentality that caused HOLY CHASSIDUS to come down to this world and stay here for the long haul.

    I am learning, and I support Bnei Torah, fully, always!

    His attitude and behavior is “NOT” the attitude and behavior of a TRUE Ben Torah!

    I am making a PUBLIC MACHO’OH!!!!

    True Bnei Torah do not give the silent treatment to their children

    or in laws, nor do they make fights and cause strife within their families or other yidden for not sitting in Kolel.

    Please Daven for this father to do Teshuva and do the right thing before it’s too late.


    I was actually thinking of a response to this, then I realized the truth: this post is obviously a joke. Because there’s no way someone is actually worried about his/her chances of marriage due to the fact that a family member chose not to live their life off the system… This was obviously written just for reactions. Well done though, it worked.


    What ever happened to ??????? ???????, ???????? ???????

    Do we erase it when our pride or kavod, or make-believe frumkeit gets involved?

    Frumkeit, is when someone acts according to the Torah and how Chazal taught us is appropriate.

    Everything else is just bad middos and ends up causing a ?????? and

    ????? ???? ?”?


    I have a question. It’s a bit cynical, but very true.

    If this was what G-d had in mind, that all people should study Torah at all times, living off the generosity of others, how then would anyone survive? If all people were participating in full-time Torah study, who then would be making money to support those who study Torah?? And please don’t say the women; women in the workforce is a relatively new phenomenon. Up until the industrial revolution (and really much longer), women stayed home with children and took care of the home. This was not demeaning, just that all livelihood came from working the fields and other forms of heavy physical labor. And even in today’s society, most families require both spouses to work in order to make ends meet.

    This whole concept of Kollel is brand new and for some reason is completely overblown. Only the MOST studious, sincere, and capable people are really worthy of public funds to support them so that they can study Torah. There is no shame in working for an honest living. Rabbi Tarfon and Rabbi Yehuda Hanassi were two of the wealthiest people to ever live. Those are just the first two to come to mind, but there are COUNTLESS others who are from the greatest Jews in history and worked an honest living while still transforming themselves into Gedolei Hador. Learning in Kollel for the satisfaction of OTHERS is silly and ultimately counter-productive. What is wrong with being on the other side of the equation, working to make a living, be a righteous Jew, and help support those who are willing to make the sacrifice?

    It’s better to be part of the solution than the problem.

    Just saying.

    am yisrael chai

    “Because there’s no way someone is actually worried about his/her chances of marriage due to the fact that a family member chose not to live their life off the system”

    Some young women are worried about their chances of marriage being affected for lesser things than this, such as if they use plastic tablecloths on Shabbos or not.


    Goodness, why assume it’s a joke? How painful this must be if it’s not. Is it worth that assumption?

    I remember years ago visiting a former classmate of mine from seminary who lived in Israel. She became engaged to a working boy, and her younger sister, who was in elementary school (!!!) talked with me privately about her worries about how her sister’s choice would affect her in shidduchim (years later). It’s no joke. These are real concerns, not to be taken lightly.

    What your sister is experiencing does put you in an awkward position. Such behavior on your parents part, can and will affect the choice you make with regard to a spouse. You’re fearful of standing up to them now. Why assume it will be any different later? What if you met an amazing learning boy, and only later found out he planned to work after a year or two? You might pass him up because of a traumatic memory of maltreatment of another. As tough as this might be, I would not suggest turning a blind eye. If you must, have your sister initiate the call to the rav to request his intervention.


    You know what? I realize that might post might offend the op. I really did not mean for it to come out sounding like that and I’m so sorry if it does insult you. I guess this is just something that I have never heard before so it seems strange to me but if it’s happening in your family then it’s real and should not be negated.

    I’m so sorry!!


    happiest and for-real: I really wish this was a joke. And happiest, apology accepted.

    Maybe it is immature on my part to worry about this affecting my shidduchim. But the fact is, who will wanna marry someone who comes from a family where the father won’t talk to his son in law just bec he’s working? It sounds like the kind of ppl you would stay far away from. And it’s not fear for me that theyre doing this.

    I think I’m going to talk to my mother about this (she’s taking this better than my father). Don’t know yet what I’m gonna say. But I think she should know that my fathers reaction is freaking me out. Good luck to me.


    I think you made it sound like you were worried about someone not marrying you because someone in the family is working which is a little hard to believe and now you said it’s because your father isn’t talking to that member of the fam that’s 2 totally different reasons! I dont have any advice for you but sounds like a rough situation to be in so good luck! I hope whatever you do works out well!


    If there was ever an issue that needed da’as Torah intervention, this is it.


    Be moichel me if i am wrong, and I am not a professional, but this has the red flag earmarks ( on surface observation) of a control freak personality at the top. If that is correct, you and your married sister are the lucky free ones, others maybe less so. May you have the strength of kiskes and sterling derech eretz to get through this unscarred.


    Without commenting as to the genuineness of the original post, I did notice that the identical scenario was the plot of “In Black and White” by Dov Haller, which was serialized in Mishpacha Magazine a few years back. The brother-in-law, Yossi Tillstein, went off to work and triggered the same type of situation, including the parents not talking to the couple and the single daughter who was worried about shidduchim. The main point of this novel was that we should all be open-minded and non-judgemental. Interestingly, and totally un-ironically, Yossi, who is also a “nice guy” and a ba’al chessed, refers to his Mexican workers as “loathsome Mexicans.” Guess it’s only all about being non-judgemental towards other Jews.


    Bewitched bothered bewildered, or B, if its OK to call you that – clearly the scenario here is different than that Mishpacha serial, as the original poster stated that her new brother-in-law is chassidish, and as we all know, Yossi Tillstein was litvish. If anything, this scenario is similar to the other Mishpacha serial, where the new brother-in-law joins the Mechlav chassidus.

    Just saying.


    Byanonymous I really wish peace and calm at home. So sorry to read this a no doubt you are torn up at seeing your family upset. Why anyone would disapprove of a new son in law supporting his wife whilst still remaining a good frum Jew is beyone me. At home I have brought my kids up with strong work ethic, alongside being shomer mitzvos. I realise different families do things differently, but when a child marries parents have to step back. It is hard for some, but needs to be done, takes a while for some people. Time is a great healer alongside understanding.


    I sincerely hope the OP was merely writing in jest.

    If not- grow up— welcome to the real world of paying bills and being responsible for yourself, and not mooching off other people.

    My gosh what a crime—-


    Working is quite normal among chassidim.

    I’d like to tell your parents to grow up. If your sister is upset and feels she was tricked, that would be a separate question. But this should have nothing to do with the parents’ wants.

    am yisrael chai


    Hope you’ve called a rav for guidance by now. You have nothing to lose at this point, as you say people already know about the internal civil war. I wonder why you hadn’t initially.


    ha ha ha ha

    look what the world has come to??!!?! this is a mighty chillel hashem!!

Viewing 50 posts - 1 through 50 (of 50 total)
  • You must be logged in to reply to this topic.