July 5, 2010 12:33 am at 12:33 am #591902rebbitzenMember
why the ywn radio has music playing now? and why my other post got closed?!July 5, 2010 2:56 am at 2:56 am #688574WolfishMusingsParticipant
If it bothers you, just don’t listen.
The WolfJuly 5, 2010 4:08 am at 4:08 am #688575Aishes ChayilParticipant
There are those who believe that music is only considered a problem in the three weeks when its LIVE music and not recordings.July 5, 2010 4:59 am at 4:59 am #688576
Take it up with the Mods. I agree that its not appropriate.
The mods have nothing to do with YWN radio. -77July 5, 2010 2:16 pm at 2:16 pm #688577
it’s playing because we as a nation are weak and have no back bone.
i went to a “frum” store yesterday, there was a female goy singing from a cd or the radio.
1) it’s the 3 weeks
2) it’s goyish music, which has no place in a frum store
3) it was a woman singer (even if she was a jewish singer, shouldn’t be played out loud in a jewish store)
why am i the only one bothered by this? why isn’t there ppl stopping to patronize this store? have we fallen so low that all is acceptable???July 5, 2010 2:39 pm at 2:39 pm #688578Hello KittyMember
Maybe they closed it because there is a similar thread already. (Three Weeks & Music)July 5, 2010 3:34 pm at 3:34 pm #688579
There are differences of opinion you need to be aware of before judging people.
Regarding both the 3 weeks and kol ishah, there are poskim who hold that a recording is not a problem. And non Jewish music is also ok if the words aren’t unclean, but that’s a whole other discussion – see the current thread about it.July 5, 2010 3:53 pm at 3:53 pm #688580
please re-read my post.
what you do at home is your problem, it’s NEVER OK for a heimish store to play this garbage, especially during the 3 weeks!!!July 5, 2010 6:39 pm at 6:39 pm #688581
If they hold it’s mutar, why not? If you disagree, don’t go in.July 5, 2010 6:48 pm at 6:48 pm #688582rebbitzenMember
i agree with you. I cant imagine that its true! how sad..and wolf, very nice of you to say just dont listen to it, but its the principal behind it. plus there’s plenty of a capella music they can play…July 6, 2010 12:03 am at 12:03 am #688583d aMember
Maybe they closed it because there is a similar thread already. (Three Weeks & Music)
This thread is (supposed to be) about YW Radio, not about music during the three weeks.July 6, 2010 1:30 am at 1:30 am #688584
based on that logic, we shouldn’t have any standards for yeshivas, stores, shuls, etc..
if you don’t like that fact a yeshiva hires an atheist for a teacher don’t go there? never mind that’s it’s not so simple to pull a sixth, seventh or eighth grader out in the middle of the year.
or if a local store hires woman with no dress code, just don’t go there, drive 30 minutes extra to buy milk.
and if you rav decides to be mechalel shabbos, you wouldn’t say anything just go to a new shul, right??July 6, 2010 4:30 pm at 4:30 pm #688585
Are you simply ignoring what I’ve said? My point is THEY HAVE WHOM TO RELY ON. Nothing I’ve written implies that I would condone a store, school, shul, or rav doing something that is assur. But in this case it is assur in YOUR opinion while others disagree. You can’t force everyone to follow your opinion, and therefore if you hold it is assur, don’t walk in, but don’t say they have no right.July 6, 2010 5:01 pm at 5:01 pm #688586
Can you name one rav that says it’s mutar to listen to each of the following
1) goish music?
2) a woman singer?
3) music during the 3 weeks?
4) and even if it’s ok at home, that it’s also mutar to play it in a public place, like a store?
i look forward to your response.July 6, 2010 5:25 pm at 5:25 pm #688587
1) Goish music. Please define. Beethoven and Mozart were goyim, does your question apply to their music as well?
2) Woman singer. If you hold that recorded music is not the same as live (which is basis for listening to taped music during sefira and 3 weeks according to those who do), why should kol isha be any different?
3) Music during 3 weeks. May I refer you to Rav Simcha Bunim Cohens sefer on “the 3 weeks” where he has a lengthy discussion on listening to music. While he does state that many (most?) poskim dont allow listening to recorded music, there are some who permit it.
4) Again, Rav SB cohen discusses whether one must walk out of a room where music is playing (his example, a DRs office) and he writes you do not. Of course he writes this in the context of halachos of the 3 weeks, and in no way implies he allows someone to play non jewish music in the office, but, the listener likely does not have to walk out.July 6, 2010 5:29 pm at 5:29 pm #688588
4) The question was whether a frum store should be playing goyish women singers (especially during the 3 weeks), not whether the customer can walk in or stay in if it is.July 6, 2010 6:13 pm at 6:13 pm #688589
I’m not sure if ppl are not reading the posts, or twist things to show they were right, or what it is.
Many times their point doesn’t address the person their responding too.July 6, 2010 6:21 pm at 6:21 pm #688590
1) i wrote earlier (my first post) it was a woman singer, so i think that takes out Beethoven and Mozart
2) why should kol isha be any different? it is different. besides like i said before what you do at home is one thing, doing something onto others is a different story.
3) if “most” poskim assur something, a public forum, such as a store shouldn’t be doing it based on one or 2 poskim that say you could.
4) as Kasha stated this isn’t a question of should i walk out or stay, it’s a question of why is it on?
lets see what yitayningwut has to say as far as which rabbonim give the heter he says is out thereJuly 6, 2010 7:18 pm at 7:18 pm #688591
“1) i wrote earlier (my first post) it was a woman singer, so i think that takes out Beethoven and Mozart”
But your question, divides the 2.
“Can you name one rav that says it’s mutar to listen to each of the following
1) goish music?
2) a woman singer?”
Number 1 implies ANY goyish music. Number 2 is specifically about listening to a woman sing.
“2) why should kol isha be any different? it is different. besides like i said before what you do at home is one thing, doing something onto others is a different story.”
Did YOU read what I wrote? Will try again. If you hold that taped music is somehow better than live music and is permitted during the 3 weeks, PERHAPS the same difference ALSO applies to kol isha. I am not saying it does, I am suggesting that perhaps it may.
“3) if “most” poskim assur something, a public forum, such as a store shouldn’t be doing it based on one or 2 poskim that say you could.”
If it is a womens clothing store where this music was played and kol isha was not a problem for the women shoppers, would yo uhave a taayna against the store?
“4) as Kasha stated this isn’t a question of should i walk out or stay, it’s a question of why is it on?”
If it is a womens clothing store for example, your question is regarding non jewish music, not an issue of kol isha. This is a valid question if this was the local dentist or pizza shop which is frequented by men and women.
So, do you understand why I asked you specifically about non jewish music AND kol isha? I understood you were trying to make 2 different points and ask 2 different questions. You didnt specify what type of store this was, so I am making distinctions on my own.July 6, 2010 7:22 pm at 7:22 pm #688592
Do any frum women clothing stores prohibit men from being customers or coming in for whatever reason? I doubt it, so that point it being for women only is inapplicable.July 6, 2010 7:36 pm at 7:36 pm #688593
your ranting makes very little sense.
I’ll try to break it down for you, if you read from the beginning it should help.
In any case, i wrote i was in a store (so stop assuming it was a women’s clothing store) i heard goish music in the 3 weeks with a woman singer.
yitayningwut wrote they have poskim to rely on, i asked which ones? but i didn’t want someone to say rabbi cohen, who maybe says (I’ll check later) that one or two poskim say you could listen to music during the 3 weeks, because that would only address 1 out of 3 issues.
There are 3 separate issues so i broke it down.
I hope you see how asking if it was classical music, or a women’s store etc.. doesn’t make much senseJuly 6, 2010 7:47 pm at 7:47 pm #688594
It is rare to hear non Jewish music and kol isha in a Jewish store. Is the store owned by a more modern orthodox type Jew?July 6, 2010 8:17 pm at 8:17 pm #688595
“Do any frum women clothing stores prohibit men from being customers or coming in for whatever reason?”
How many men walk into (name your frum womens clothing/accesories/nail salon/ store here) in any given week?
Are you somehow implying it is appropriate for a man to walk into say, (I am making this up, any store that has this name, apologies) Friedmans Female Fashions?
How many frum stores play music of ANY kind, let alone non jewish woman vocalists or a radio station. How do you know it wasnt a jingle of some sort? Perhaps the owner didnt come into the store that day and a non jewish worker decided on the selection of music for the day? Why do you believe I think it is OK for a store to play non jewish music, especially with female vocalist, because I am trying to find a reason that another yid didnt do something wrong? Try not to look for and point out every negative thing about another yid. Look for the positive. Especially during the three weeks. If you do that, perhaps if this yid IS playing objectionable music, they will take you seriously if you point it out to them.July 6, 2010 8:19 pm at 8:19 pm #688596
“How many men walk into (name your frum womens clothing/accesories/nail salon/ store here) in any given week?”
As long as its one per week, per month, or per year, there cannot be any Kol Isha singing at such time.July 6, 2010 9:09 pm at 9:09 pm #688597
I’m not sure how modern he is , he looks liek a regular litvach to me but who knows.
in the future pay more attention to music being played, it happens more than ppl realize, especially if they leave the radio on.
not always is it playing over a speaker system, but if it’s behind the counter, i don’t want to hear it when i pay. or even in a restaurant the workers will have it on, then make sure it’s not loud enough for others to hear it.July 6, 2010 9:55 pm at 9:55 pm #688598
“As long as its one per week, per month, or per year, there cannot be any Kol Isha singing at such time.”
Do they belong there, ever?July 6, 2010 11:18 pm at 11:18 pm #688599
apushatayid: No they don’t. I agree with you on this point 100%.
The problem is they still may come in to shop (for their wife and daughters.) And unless the merchant stops that, the issue is unavoidable.
So there are 2 choices essentially. The shop owner can put a sign on the door “Women Only” (sounds more digestable than “No Men Allowed”) and enforce that policy. This would be the preferred alternative, as you seem to agree. The alternative is to have no Kol Isha.July 6, 2010 11:36 pm at 11:36 pm #688600yaff80Participant
sefardim listen to music upto sh’vua sh’chol boi.
If you dont listen, then dont press play.
Like YWN play music on Fri afternoon, when it is shabbos in Eretz Yisroel, and we expect Israelis not to press play because it is shabbos for them but not for you, so too with this. It is assur for you so dont press play. However YWN can play the music for the benefit of those who are sefardim.July 6, 2010 11:46 pm at 11:46 pm #688601
you say “Do they belong there, ever?”
that really isn’t the point, is it?
the point is a heimish store shouldn’t be playing goish music, with a female singer on top of it!
this wasn’t in a womans store, so why do you keep bringing it up?July 7, 2010 2:09 am at 2:09 am #688602
i need your help in understanding this, i must have missed something.
you wrote and i quote
“3) Music during 3 weeks. May I refer you to Rav Simcha Bunim Cohens sefer on “the 3 weeks” where he has a lengthy discussion on listening to music. While he does state that many (most?) poskim dont allow listening to recorded music, there are some who permit it.”
i looked it up and this is what he actually says
“you may not listen to any musical instrument during the Three weeks. This includes both live and RECORDED music. The prohibition applies to men and women, as well as children who have reached the age of chinuch.”
could you explain how that means some poskim allow music during the 3 weeks?July 7, 2010 2:11 am at 2:11 am #688603
Can you name one rav that says it’s mutar to listen to each of the following
1) goish music?
2) a woman singer?
3) music during the 3 weeks?
4) and even if it’s ok at home, that it’s also mutar to play it in a public place, like a store?July 7, 2010 2:42 am at 2:42 am #688604mazal77Participant
Yaff80, I posted in another thread, about sephardim NOT listening to music during the 3 weeks. So please don’t generalize that Sephardim listen except the week off Tisha B’Av. I am Sephardic myself and we hold that you may not bathe, swim, laundry, and haircuts during the week in which Tisha B’Av falls. But music is not permitted at all during the 3 weeks, according to Hacham Ovadia Yosef, Shilta.
Also, just wanted to know though which Sephardic Rav you hold by, incase your rav permits.July 7, 2010 2:56 am at 2:56 am #688605whatitsallaboutMember
people please stop fighting, it’s not worth it.
the worker at the store made a mistake, is that so unforgivable. There is absolutely no need for arguing.
About the site: it seems correct to say that the music is for the people who hold of listening (like some of you have said).July 7, 2010 3:19 am at 3:19 am #688606
I have heard of a heter to listen to Kol Isha (Jewish) if you dont know who she is and never saw her. Its a flimsy heter but I heard there is really such a heter. I dont have sources for it.July 7, 2010 3:22 am at 3:22 am #688607
Even if we assume that is a legit heter, however flimsy, it doesn’t help in a public setting as anyone (who may know who it is and/or how she looks) may come by and hear her.July 7, 2010 1:34 pm at 1:34 pm #688608
well i can see why ppl play this garbage, no one seems to care.
no wonder so many kids are going off the derech.
maybe i should post this under “why are kids going off the derech’ but no one caresJuly 7, 2010 1:35 pm at 1:35 pm #688609
a conversation isn’t always a fight! nor is a debate.
this whole site is about debating and having a difference of opinion.July 7, 2010 1:38 pm at 1:38 pm #688610missmeMember
I care. You care. Many others care too.
We need to be vocal about it and protest.
Did you call the store owner to the carpet and request s/he stop it? If not, THAT’S the problem. If no one protests, why will SHE care??
And if she ignores you, perhaps it is time to picket in front of her shop urging customers to shop elsewhere. Print a flyer urging customers to boycott her, and listing nearby competitors, and show it to her before handing them out to potential customers considering entering her store. Allow her to consider the implications and reconsider prior to going through with it.
That will certainly get her attention.July 7, 2010 5:24 pm at 5:24 pm #688611
You are right. Many people dont have the guts to stand up for whats right. If we are in a store and notice an issue like the music we have an obligation to say something to the store owners. I was personally in a Jewish owned mens clothing store and I noticed inappropriate words and pictures scrawled on the walls of the dressing room. I went to the owner and reported it and asked him to do something about it. I felt uncomfortable but I knew it had to be done. It absolutely shocked me that I was the FIRST person to mention this. As much as many people care there are many who dont care, or just dont care enough to do something about the situation. If you dont care enough to do something then you dont really care.July 7, 2010 8:51 pm at 8:51 pm #688612whatitsallaboutMember
Of course you can debate with one and other but there is Jewish debating and the other way. When a yid debates he should make sure he is arguing the ideas and concepts, not the people. I said what I said because when I read the post it felt like people were arguing as if they were taking swipes at the other. All I implore is that we be careful how we argue. Thank YouJuly 7, 2010 9:24 pm at 9:24 pm #688614
“could you explain how that means some poskim allow music during the 3 weeks?”
RECORDED music. Check the footnotes. I dont own the sefer.
- You must be logged in to reply to this topic.