I want to talk about Israel etc.

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  • July 28, 2011 5:01 pm at 5:01 pm #598279
    LSH
    Member

    Here’s the quandary:

    The Ramban says it’s a mitzvah to live in Israel. The Ramban had success living in Israel.

    The Rambam does not list living in Israel as a mitzvah. The Rambam was not able to live in Israel.

    The Ramban’s experience of Israel occurred after the Rambam’s experience.

    Case II: Very different subject. All people in this group lived in the same town.

    Person A says such and such a group is okay to hang around and go to school with.

    Person B says you don’t know what you’re talking about. In fact I had to run from people in this group and historically speaking I know this group doesn’t like my group very much. To be fair this group did save my father in a time of danger and not everyone from a particular group is bad but sometimes you do have to form an opinion on a group based on how they treated you and your group for a number of years and also historically.

    Person A had their experience about 10 years after Person B.

    Person C had Person A’s experience 20 years before Person A.

    Therefore:

    Year 0: Person C: No bad experience. Currently not connected to Yiddishkeit at all.

    Year 10: Person B: Very bad experience. Currently religious.

    Year 20: Person C: Good experience. Currently Conservative and very worldly with regards to opinions on life in general.

    Just wondering…

    July 28, 2011 5:07 pm at 5:07 pm #791468
    ☕️coffee addict
    Participant

    I’m not following

    July 28, 2011 5:08 pm at 5:08 pm #791469
    YW Moderator-80
    Member

    shouldnt this be in the riddle thread?

    July 28, 2011 5:08 pm at 5:08 pm #791470
    adorable
    Participant

    it should be deleted!!!!!!!!!

    July 28, 2011 5:13 pm at 5:13 pm #791471
    YW Moderator-80
    Member

    adorable

    i didnt delete it because i dont understand it

    can you explain please why it should be deleted

    thanks

    July 28, 2011 5:14 pm at 5:14 pm #791472
    adorable
    Participant

    if you deleted mine for no reason and it was more understandable than this one then you should for sure delete ones that make no sense

    July 28, 2011 5:27 pm at 5:27 pm #791473
    stickynote
    Member

    LSH: I think I get your train of thought although it is not the easiest to follow..

    What does your Case II have to do with the Ramban’s point of view about living in Israel? What point are you trying to make?

    July 28, 2011 6:08 pm at 6:08 pm #791474
    MichaelC
    Member

    see my ‘Vayoel Moshe’ post’s in the Dvar Torah section

    July 28, 2011 7:38 pm at 7:38 pm #791475
    LSH
    Member

    The point is:

    Some opinions come from Halacha and some opinions come from a personal experience that we had.

    For example, when the person told me that she went to a certain kind of school and she was treated so nice and she never had any trouble I was thinking she was living in LA LA land.

    Now I see that the Rambam and the Ramban have a different opinion on a subject that people feel very passionate about and I would definitely say they’re both right from their point of view. If I went to Israel and I was allowed to stay I would be insisting that other people move there. If I had a very difficult experience when I was there then I wouldn’t be so encouraging to others.

    In the case of both of the girls who had an easy time of it, most likely in a few generations their children will be lost to Klal Yisroel through intermarriage. If I love non-Jews so much then there’s no reason for my child to stay away from them in any way shape or form. So although my opinion was shaped through my experiences as was the Rambam and Ramban I am still not able to validate her experience.

    Basically, when can we really say when we’re really right?

    July 28, 2011 9:59 pm at 9:59 pm #791476
    Ms. Critique who may always know the answers correctly
    Participant

    The Rambam speaks about yishuv Eretz Yisroel not Israel, as a state!

    July 28, 2011 11:15 pm at 11:15 pm #791477
    ☕️coffee addict
    Participant

    Oh that makes more sense

    July 28, 2011 11:46 pm at 11:46 pm #791478
    chaimss
    Participant

    There’s a difference between loving Eretz Yisroel as the Holy Land and loving Israel as a nation-state. I’m not taking sides, etc. but just because you love E”Y doesn’t mean you love Israel, and vice versa.

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