If New York were a 'Death Penalty State'……

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  • #598052

    Broker
    Participant

    In light of the recent tragedy, what position do you think Jews would take had that been the case, considering that the suspect is one of our own?

    #787174

    Most of us want to see the suspect, who has confessed, erased from the ranks of those with whom we share the world of the living.

    #787175

    wanderingchana
    Participant

    Not necessary. All they have to do is put him in with the general population right before the guards go to lunch. Bubba who’s already in for 245 more years has nothing to lose.

    #787176

    Broker
    Participant

    600,

    Very diplomatically put!

    However, when push comes to shove, I’m wondering how much sympathy there would be from the frum community if he were to be executed.

    #787177

    “Most of us want to see the suspect, who has confessed, erased from the ranks of those with whom we share the world of the living. “

    I second that.

    #787178

    alive and well
    Participant

    i dont want him dead i just want him locked up realy good

    #787179

    Oh, I did not mean that the justice system davka has to do it – I know NY is not a death penalty state. Bubba the Klansman or Abdul from Nations of Islam is just fine with me.

    No one except the looney left would protest his execution if it somehow came to be. And I mean the really looney left.

    #787180

    mik5
    Participant

    The 7 Commandments of Noah are for the seventy nations. However, right now there is no beis din and we are in galus, where the law of the land is the law.

    So, if NY had a death penalty and Levi Aron’s crime met the criteria (it does, unless he’s insane), then I would have no problem with his being executed.

    He who is merciful unto the cruel will one day be cruel unto the merciful.

    This, of course, is a hypothetical question – because NY, being the bastion of liberalism that it is, does not have a death penalty.

    #787181

    bpt
    Participant

    Until after the trial, I’d like him kept very safe, so we don’t lose the chance to learn from this how he managed to snare Lieby A”H, and just how dangerous the street really are. During questioning, I’m sure it will be discovered how he tricked his victim and from that, we’ll know how to better protect our kids.

    After that, I’d like to see him in Rikers. The treatment he’ll get there is beyond anything any of us can inflict on him. The death penalty will seem like a treat by comparsion

    #787182

    apushatayid
    Participant

    In the time of the beis hamikdash when beis din tried capital cases, how did the general population react? Did bloodthirsty crowds gather in shuls and write on the blogs of the time to exhort beis din to stone the guy? Did beis din say “what a monster, death”? Perhaps someone who has learned through sanhedrin can enlighten us?

    #787183

    I don’t know. Misas beis din is meant to be a kapara. We can’t just kill people without a trial in beis din. I think that it is better that he be locked up tight in a cell by himself so that he can’t harm anyone ever again and let Hashem deal with him the way He wants.

    I don’t say this out of mercy. I’m just not sure that we can kill someone or even put him in a position that he would be harmed without a beis din.

    #787184

    frumnotyeshivish
    Participant

    In beis din he would not be killed as there were no eidim no hasroah and they would not believe his confession. I find it truly disturbing that so many frum yidden are so focused on the psychopath. Does everyone not realize that it was a message from God? True this psychopath was the shliach, and if the true judge deems him guilty, believe me, he will suffer, but if he wouldn’t have done it, someone else would have. Anger at what happened, is anger at God. If God would have wanted to stop it, he most definitely could have. Instead of lashing out at the messenger, try to get the message! What is Hashem telling us? If you are not sure (which I think most of us are not), do tshuva. Learn mishnayos leilluy nishmaso. Learn some mishnayos leilluy nishmoscha. Say some tehillim. Help someone. But STOP! STOP! obsessing about what will happen to the messenger. It’s silly, petty, and borderline kfira!

    #787185

    aries2756
    Participant

    Whatever punishment he will receive in this world will never compare to the punishment he will received in the next world. Gehenem has a reservation in his name.

    #787186

    jmj613
    Participant

    ill tell what a rabbi told me: alpi halacha he cant be executed but i dont mind if theyd put death penalty on him…

    #787187

    phrum
    Member

    apushatayid

    The Torah did give use cities for refuge from those seeking revenge against murders – seems like that at the very least the behavior – and presumably emotions – of blood vengeance did indeed exist among Bnei Yisrael in the times of the Beis HaMikdash. And if in cases of accidental/involuntary manslaughter, then kal v’homer in a case like this, right?

    #787188

    Aishes Chayil
    Participant

    Frumnotyeshivish;

    Does the posuk ‘tzedek tzedek tirdof’ mean anything to you???

    Its not just aboutt what will happen to him in the world to come. We have a right to see Yashrus in this wolrd as well.

    He commited a heinous unspeakble crime to aan innocent child.

    In fact, I think one of the networks reported that the mother asked one of the authorities if the will catch whoever did this. They assured her they would and that he would be brought to justice.

    I’m sure you mean well,a nd dont take this the wrong way.

    But in the futur, if anyone wants to release their sanctimonious opinions in public, please pick a more suitable topic.

    #787189

    chachamhagadol
    Participant

    He would not get away with it in Beis Din, albeit there are no eidim, and hasra’ah. See M’ Sanhedrin for details. It is very possible that he will be tried in TN,AR, or FL if they find his involvement in additional murders.

    As far as the comment that it is borderline kfira to obsess on this. I don’t agree. Obsessing is never good. And Teshuva and limud torah are excellent recommendations. If this was a bear or a wolf or some other wild animal,I would agree. But this is not the case. It’s a person who was given Bechirah who did this. And as much as we recognize that if hashem did not want this to happen he would have prevented it and there is hashgacha in the world, we also recognize that we are faced with a very evil person in our midst and we need to rid ourselves of him.

    #787190

    midwesterner
    Participant

    So the Torah guarantees us a special gift from Hashem, that if we do that mitzva properly, Hashem will give us in out hearts and extra dose of rachamim, so we will not have our definition as a people undermined.

    In this case, as heinous as the crime that was committed, and as much as we know that HKBH will judge properly, and we expect that means things will not go well for Mr. Aron, we must still be careful not to become achzarim ourselves, all in the name of vengeance against a horrible murderer.

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