If you really want to do something and are told no

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    If somebody really wanted to do a sport and asks a sheila and is told not to do so because of tsinus reasons, what would you say??? It’s so frustrating, annoying, and anger-ing! There’s so many no’s in the frum world.


    A psak is a psak.


    Out of curiosity, which sport?

    I’m sorry, that’s very disappointing. Is there anything else that you can take up that is similar in nature to that sport but not un’tznius?


    Princess eagle

    “There’s so many no’s in the frum world.”

    Yes there are many no’s but there are plenty of yes’s as well. Always keep in mind we arent like them. We are different they have 7 mitzvos and we have 613. Part of being a princess is living a different life. A princess doesnt ask why she cant play in the mud like the peasant children, its clear to her that she is different she is royalty. Whenever there is something you would like to do but cant because of Tznius or other Halachic reasons be proud that you are a Jew and that Hashem chose you to be part of His nation and to be His princess. Hashem is Infinitely good and loves all of us, that is why He gave us the opportunity of keeping His Torah. Know that anything Halacha doesnt permit is plain bad for our Neshamos. If there are things we can’t do its not because Hashem doesn’t want you to enjoy life, rather it is because Hashem knows they are bad for our Neshamos and He is looking out for our good.


    There’s also the idea of Olam Haboh in the frum world,that the others participating in the sport don’t have.Do you have any idea how beloved in the eyes of H-shem you are by following your Rav’s psak? You should express your frustration and get it out of your system,then try to think outside the box to see what you possibly ~could~ do.


    If you asked a Shaila and got an answer of no then that’s that. There are many sports that can be played that are perfectly Tznius though. Maybe for your next sport you can ask your Rov for permission to ask the Shaila of someone who might say it’s okay?


    That’s very dissapointing. I really admire you for accepting the psak without looking for loopholes. You’re right, there are many “no’s” in the frum world. But you know what? I used to think that too. Until I finally (sadly) tried not to obey and do some stuff that were “no’s”. Guess where it got me? Depression, anxiety, loneliness, fear and confusion, that’s where. I know it’s easier said than done, especially now when you feel like you really want to do something. But remember, Hashem knows and sees how difficult it is for you and will reward you accordingly. Tell Him that it’s your private korban to Him. Ask that in the zechus of doing what’s right He should give you _____________(fill in the blank).

    Hatzchala Rabba in everthing you do.

    (And I’ll daven for you, as I promised:))

    minyan gal

    Sam2, how are you supposed to find a Rov who will give you the answer that you want to hear? This isn’t like shopping for a new car where you go from dealer to dealer comparing prices.


    Which sport? For blazes durn it!


    Minyan gal: That’s why I said to ask her Rav first. There are many cases where a Rabbi will tell the Sho’eil to ask someone else instead. Many times it’s because they know that there are good reasons to be Meikil but don’t want to be Meikil themselves. So I advised to ask her Rav, who can decide if this is an important enough issue to her (from the OP it seems like a big deal to her) and a Tznius-enough sport to be Meikil in this fashion.

    am yisrael chai

    It’s also important to ask a complete shaila, including physical and emotional state, etc.

    I know that R A Blumenkranz a”h allowed high school girls to have a self-contained karate class in a gi.


    Building slightly on what was already mentioned, maybe its possible to get a group of girls and have an enclosed area for it. (In high school, certain sports weren’t allowed, but once a year we had a roller skating/blading trip in a rink that was completely rented out. I’m not sure where you live, but if you’re in Brooklyn, maybe if you contact a place like Ohr Naava they would get involved in something like that. If not maybe you can get a large group and do it on your own.)

    Think of it this way; imagine you knew an alcoholic. You don’t enjoy drinking, so you really don’t understand what its about but you accept it as a fact that you cant change, this person enjoys drinking. Wouldn’t you do everything within your power to have them avoid alcohol? Even if it means you’re going out of your way a little, at the end of the day you want them to win the fight.

    I’m told that a woman will never understand the yetzer hara that a man has, and even though she can’t understand it, she still wants to help them win the fight. Even if it means giving up on certain things.

    No one said anything is easy, just that its very worthwhile.


    (No offense to the men out there)



    The key issue is that a sheilah was asked and opgepaskend. Notwithstanding the religious aspect, if you respect an individual enough to seriously ask for his (or her) advice, it would be a slap in that induvidual’s face to not follow it.


    PrincessEagle- While I am also curious to know which sport, I suggest you dont reveal it. Better not to have others say something like “I asked my Rov and he said it was fine”.

    If you asked someone that you respect, you need to follow it. You may want to ask him again to see if its permitted in a private setting- women are allowed to go swimming as long as there is a god mechitza.


    Sadly we don’t always get to do what we want to. It is frustrating and hard to deal with. But it is just one of those challenges we are faced with that helps build our character and makes us who we turn out to be in the end. You asked a sheilah and you are disappointed. You are not permitted to shop around for a better answer. You asked and your question was answered. Now your nisayon is how are you going to deal with the answer you received.

    It really isn’t important what your question was nor why it was answered the way it was answered. The question for now and for the future is what happens when you ask a sheilah and you don’t get the answer you want. What will you do? How will you handle it? Maybe that is the test Hashem is actually giving you. Maybe you were supposed to get this answer just for this nisayon, how you respond when you don’t get the answer you want.

    You had the faith to ask the sheila, do you have the faith and bitachon to follow through no matter what?


    you also knwo that if a Rabbi told you no to something than it’s good for you, just like all the chukim in the Torah, we have to believe that hashem is muchh mightier than us and can see the whollee world and knows what’s better for us


    This you already asked and recived a no, this particular sport is out of bounds for you. (unless you get married, and in that case, you can try re-submitting the question to your new posek)

    Next sport, try seeing if you can fit it into the “health reasons” category. You’d be shocked at what gets the green light, once its out of the “fun” arena


    Thank you so much all of you for the answers and support! i never thought i’d get this much from here… i really appreciate it, some of these answers really touched me.

    Firstly yungerman1 – thank you for the advise not to mention the sport, you gave me a clean way to do what i was thinking – i’m saying i’m taking your advice!

    i liked the words said.. (too much to mention all specifically) but i really appreciate every one of you who posted.

    Regarding asking the sheila – i asked my rav, somebody who knows me very well. i didn’t want to do it behind my parents back and they told me to ask… a shame i’m too honest because i want to tell my parents i got a yes and go anyway. i don’t know that i care whether it’s wrong or not, elul or not.

    Honesty again, i guess i couldn’t ask somebody else.

    Regarding kapusta’s advice – yes, he said it’s okay if it’d be women only etc but i wouldn’t be able to pull that one off. He was also really bothered about the music which creates an atmosphere and you’re actually in it, different to a shop and different to listening it yourself. “It’ll put you down”. It’s difficult just to care!!!!!!!

    Observanteen, i like the thought of it being like a korbon, and about doing the “no” things, well i’m not sure i want to care either.. where’s the beauty of being frum??????

    bpt – lol! yeah i should try it… it’ll work as far as getting my father to pay for swimming and nutritionists and the like !!


    PrincessEagle: where’s the beauty of being frum??????

    First of all, I’m an 18 year old girl and the rav you asked is obviously older and wiser and well versed in the Torah – which I’m not. All I can say, is that life, frum or not has no’s. You cannot ALWAYS do as you wish even if you’re not frum. And life is not easy, whether you’re religous or not. So what’s the difference? The difference is that you get schar when you sacrifice something for Yiddishkeit. And I don’t only mean schar in the World to come, but schar in this world, too. The feeling of contentedness, of a goal, of a purpose is beyond compare.

    Tznius is the essence and beauty of a Bas Yisroel. To me, tznius is truly my korban to Hashem. I feel like I’m giving away something so dear to me. Tznius is IMO, the most difficult nisoyon for a woman (especially girls in their later teens). When you give something up for tznius, it shows that you’re mature enough to accept a psak and you understand how sensitive men are to untznius women.

    “a shame i’m too honest “

    Nope. Absolutely not! The reward for being honest is that people believe in you. They trust you. Isn’t it worthwhile (besides for the schar)?

    Good luck, and may Hashem grant you the kochos to be able to overcome this nisoyon.


    thanks obervanteen.. you’re right of course about life not being easy religious or not..

    Lets say i was just kidding it just to hear the answers for fun ..

    Where is the beauty in being frum????? Sometimes you can just feel so uninterested! And of course you have to do it anyway but you also just not care!



    Where’s the beauty in being not frum?! Do you have any clue how miserable it is to be a non frum or non Jewish girl??????!

    am yisrael chai

    “Where is the beauty in being frum?????”

    I USED to ask baalei tshuva (when I was in high school)why they would CHOOSE to impose restrictions on themselves when they were used to having so much more “freedom.”

    The answers given used to leave me floored. (It’s very obvious to me now!) They ALL felt that they had MORE freedom by having more restrictions and therefore more SELF-CONTROL. In their experience, having more self-control meant that no other force (including addictions) would have control over them. They felt more powerful and more in charge of their lives.

    They also felt that even SIMPLE actions had more meaning. That thanking G-d for the food they were about to eat made the eating itself more holy.

    I hope this helps.


    Princess, looks like you feel fed up. You say you don’t care. Perhaps this is the root of everything. If I understand correctly, you weren’t as upset that you couldn’t do the sport but rather that you’re restricted. You feel like somebody is leading your life for you. Why, that sounds SO familiar to me! But PLEASE DON’T do what I did. DON’T drop it all. Do some research. Look, you want to find happiness, right? Check it out. I can’t post everything on a public forum, but I think you should read “Permission to Believe” and “Permission to Recieve” by Lawrence Kelemen. Also, research all religions. It might help you. And perhaps you can do some research on Evolution. You’ll see how contradicting and senseless it is. When you’re not certain that Yiddishkeit is in fact the Truth, you feel that you are restricted and you feel sheltered. OTOH, if you do some research and see that this IS THE ONLY SENSIBLE RELIGION you feel privileged and you see the beauty in Yiddishkeit.

    Good Shabbos and Good luck!


    Sometimes a Rov will give 2 different answers to 2 people based on individual circumstances.

    One person will feel closer to Yiddishkeit by NOT playing the sport and another will feel ailienated by being forbidden to do so.

    am yisrael chai


    That’s why the OP asked her rav who knows her.


    Would it make sense to call your rav again to tell him of your struggle with the psak?


    Kapusta, I agree with you. Many camps in the summer, used to rent out the skating rink and they played jewish music, and even when there were mostly Frum kids at the rink, they put on jewish music for them.


    I read a book (I am not sure if I can metion the title or Author) but it was written by a frum woman

    It talks about a Son who refused to wear a Hat and the father forced him to wear the hat , because everyone in that community wore a hat.

    The son later went OTD because it became all or nothing. And it all started with a fight over a hat.

    I dont know what sport was here, but I am going to assume its a sport that SOME frum girls Play (Like Softball or Basketball) and NOT a sport like Wrestling or Football. And there might be some room especially if the Posek might know more info instead of just a yes or no question.


    thank you for your responses, it really means alot to me.

    ayc – that’s actually an amazing response, thank you for posted it! It’s … reminding … that if you do what “you” want your following a different force, be it of yetzer hara, addiction, etc. the only REAL control is self control.

    It’s just that – why bother? Who cares anyway?

    Observanteen, yes, ~fed up~ sounds right. i’m finding it dif. to hold on!!!!!

    i’m too shy to call my rav again, maybe i’ll wait a lil and see how it goes .. In this particular sport i’m not that upset over.. and just to clarify, i asked MY rav who knows me, and he did say it’s okay if it’d be hired out (but i couldn’t pull that one off.)

    ZahavasDad maybe it’s also something like that i’m trying to balance with … just not literally in wearing a hat!

    You’ve left me what to think about over shabbos! Thank you again!

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