September 26, 2017 11:14 pm at 11:14 pm #1371554
To serve him a bowl of Reese’s Pieces mixed with Skittles, and with M&M’s?
Thank you ☺September 26, 2017 11:36 pm at 11:36 pm #1371585👑RebYidd23Participant
No. It is a very righteous thing to do, and it will inspire him to eat chalav yisrael.September 27, 2017 7:57 am at 7:57 am #1371623apushatayidParticipant
Stupid, maybe. Evil, no.September 27, 2017 8:01 am at 8:01 am #1371633YW Moderator-29 👨💻Moderator
Skittles aren’t milchik…or kosherSeptember 27, 2017 8:12 am at 8:12 am #1371635
From the Only Kosher website:
“SKITTLES ARE BITE-SIZED CHEWY CANDIES WITH A COLORFUL CANDY SHELL. KOSHER SKITTLES ARE FINALLY AVAILABLE IN THE USA!
6.2 OZ. BAG OF KOSHER SKITTLES FRUITS LARGE
THIS ITEM IS CERTIFIED KOSHER PARVE UNDER THE HASHGACHO OF RABBI YISROEL YAAKOV LICHTENSTEIN”
Just to clarify: Most skittles are not Kosher. Only Skittles with Kosher certification on the package are Kosher.September 27, 2017 9:16 am at 9:16 am #1371646
Chalav akum is a very terrible thing …September 27, 2017 9:18 am at 9:18 am #1371634
770, the Lubavicher Rebbe allowed (encouraged) R’ Berel Levy to certify cholov stam.
So while I agree that cholov akum is terrible, the Rebbe obviously didn’t hold cholov stam is cholov akum.September 27, 2017 9:22 am at 9:22 am #1371652Takes2-2tangoParticipant
Is it evil of you to think of your friend as evil for doing or eating something which you may not agree with?September 27, 2017 9:53 am at 9:53 am #1371695
Is it evil to think it is evil for you to think of your friend as evil for doing or eating something which you may not agree with?September 27, 2017 11:23 am at 11:23 am #1371829motchah11Participant
Rav Moshe Feinstien zt”l wrote in one of his teshuvos about cholov stam that it is proper for baalai ruach not to eat cholov stam, but it is assur to call anyone who does eat it a rasha, since there is support to permit it.September 27, 2017 1:55 pm at 1:55 pm #1371877
chalav Avdei KochavimUMazolos cause sfeikis in emunah and other terrible things like lack of yiras shamayim rlSeptember 27, 2017 2:11 pm at 2:11 pm #1371969Sam2Participant
I find it theologically problematic to believe that an Issur’ D’Rbannan can cause such terrible things. If it did, Hashem would have made it Assur Min HaTorah.September 27, 2017 2:35 pm at 2:35 pm #1371978
770chabad: That is why Reb Moshe differentiated between chalav akum and chalav stam.September 27, 2017 3:40 pm at 3:40 pm #1372087
Related question: I personally don’t drink scotch made in sherry casks. Occasionally someone will give me a sherry cask bottle as a gift. Is it wrong for me to give the bottle to those who do drink this scotch, or to serve it to them, in my home?September 27, 2017 3:45 pm at 3:45 pm #1372097
If someone doesn’t use Cholov Stam he shouldn’t be giving it to other Yidden. (Since he holds it is assur [as his shitta is that it is Cholov Akum], he can’t give it to a Jew.)
What is the reason you don’t use sherry casks (whatever that is)?September 27, 2017 4:01 pm at 4:01 pm #1372156
joseph: sherry casks are casks that used to hold non-kosher sherry. You can read more on the Star-K website.September 27, 2017 4:01 pm at 4:01 pm #1372159Takes2-2tangoParticipant
Its actually a bigger aveira to think of someone as evil for doing something that you dont approve of but is widely accepted. btw chlov stam is not traif even for those who are makpid. Learn halach before you spew your amaratzusSeptember 27, 2017 4:05 pm at 4:05 pm #1372160mentsch1Participant
Sherry is an aged/fortified wine, and you have the obvious nesech issue. Once the sherry matures the casks that held the wine are reused by the scotch manufacturers. The scotch is stored in the casks for years, as it imparts flavor and color.
The halachic issue involves bliyos form the sherry. Many hold that the bleyos constitute a significant amount and make the scotch not kosher. From my experience many are not makpid and use any “single malt ” scotch. Many (such as Rav Reisman) speak out against the practice of using any whiskey that doesn’t have a hechsher.September 27, 2017 5:27 pm at 5:27 pm #1372352
Sherry Casks are containers that are used to ferment Sherry (A Liquor). Many times the same casks are also used to ferment wine (Non Kosher wine)September 27, 2017 5:36 pm at 5:36 pm #1372365
If you hold sherry casks are not allowed to be used, then you can’t give it to another Jew — even if the other Jew uses it.September 27, 2017 6:23 pm at 6:23 pm #1372405
The scotch is aged in sherry( i.e. wine) casks specifically for their flavor, it is therefore, like a davar hamamed which is never batal. I heard from a Rosh yeshiva that both Rav Dovid and Rav Ruvain Feinstien hold this way even though hR’Moshe was reported to have drunk such scotch., The head of the OU was on headlines a few months ago and he stated that there are many bases to be maikel (e.g. the scotch may be from the tenth “pouring” when there is zero flavor left) but that the OU does not rely on bital ever, as a matter of principle.September 27, 2017 6:23 pm at 6:23 pm #1372407
Joseph- do you believe it is lfney ivar or some other issur? Is it shnai tzidai d’n’hara even if every kosher wine store sells it? That was the thrust of my question.September 27, 2017 6:28 pm at 6:28 pm #1372415
DY – no, it’s not.September 27, 2017 6:29 pm at 6:29 pm #1372414
Lightbrite – that is so nice of you to think of me! Thanks so much!
By the way, I just read an article about a certain well-known Gadol or Rav (it might have been Rav Shimshon Pincus) written by a relative of his. One of the stories was about how he gave a relative of his a ride to a chalav-stam ice cream place, even though he himself wouldn’t eat there.
To answer your question, the general rule in such matters is that if you consider the Rabbanim who permit the thing in question to be reliable Rabbanim and the opinion to be a valid opinion, then I think it’s okay (for example, my friends don’t mind if I open their soda bottles on Shabbos, especially if I’m doing it for myself.)
You should probably ask a sheilah though because it may depend on various factors.
But if you don’t think those Rabbanim are reliable Rabbanim or if you hold that something is absolutely assur, then it would be a different story.
When it comes to Chalav Yisrael, a factor to consider may be if you are makpid on it because you are holding by a shita that says that chalav stam is absolutely assur vs. if you are following a shita that chalav stam is muttar but a kula.
My impression is that Chabad may hold that it’s absolutely assur, so if you consider yourself to be Chabad, you should probably ask your Rav, because that may make a difference.September 27, 2017 7:38 pm at 7:38 pm #1372422
It is absolutely assurSeptember 27, 2017 7:54 pm at 7:54 pm #1372438
770: What is absolutely assur?September 27, 2017 8:18 pm at 8:18 pm #1372442
Chabad likely wont eat Chalav Stam, but I dont think they are opposedto others eating it and will tell people they are Mekarav they can eat OU Ice Cream (They would never tell someone to eat Hebrew National for example)September 27, 2017 8:18 pm at 8:18 pm #1372443motchah11Participant
I have news for you. The Satmar Rov, to the beat of my knowledge, paakened that it is traif gomur. So I don’t know where you get off saying that it isn’t according to that shitah.September 27, 2017 9:18 pm at 9:18 pm #1372449
dafbiyun, if your Posek holds Cholov Stam or sherry casks are treif (and the shitta assuring Cholov Stam because they consider it Cholov Akum effectively holds it is treif), then you cannot give that tarfus to another Yid even if he holds it’s kosher. Since as far as you’re concerned it is treif.September 27, 2017 9:18 pm at 9:18 pm #1372454
Chalav akum is worse the. Eating chazerSeptember 27, 2017 9:18 pm at 9:18 pm #1372455
I find it theologically problematic to believe that an Issur’ D’Rbannan can cause such terrible things. If it did, Hashem would have made it Assur Min HaTorah.
Maybe it only causes it because the rabbonon assered it.
I saw b’shem R Shlomo Zalman that being meikil in bishul akum (even where there’s no personal contact) has led to much intermarriage in the US.
According to you, that’s theologically problematic.
I don’t agree that it is.
(Hi, Sam, how have you been?)September 27, 2017 9:19 pm at 9:19 pm #1372456
As far as lifnei iver on a machlokes where the “iver” has on whom to rely, there’s an opinion which disagrees, but most acharonim hold it’s not a problem.September 27, 2017 9:46 pm at 9:46 pm #1372465
Would you say it is okay for someone who, like most, holds with the Psak of Rav Moshe and most contemporary poskim regarding an Eruv in NYC being assur and chillul Shabbos to carry, to give someone a package on Shabbos to carry within the Flatbush or Boro Park Eruv since the Flatbush and Boro Park Eruvs has on whom to rely?September 27, 2017 9:47 pm at 9:47 pm #1372466
It evil because its not right to put something delicious looking in front of someone who wont eat it
It would also be evil if you had nice looking food from a Hashsghca the person wont eat from (on purpose)September 27, 2017 9:51 pm at 9:51 pm #1372473MenoParticipant
Are the words evil and assur being used interchangeably here?September 27, 2017 11:10 pm at 11:10 pm #1372502
770c: Everybody agrees that chalav akum is treif. The point is that R’ Moshe created a new category called chalav stam which takes it out of the geder of chalav akum. Many in the chadisheh velt did not accept on themselves this heter from R’ Moshe.
Meno: IMO, the OP used the term “evil” as “it is not a good thing”.September 27, 2017 11:24 pm at 11:24 pm #1372532
Hi everyone… thanks for commenting on this post! It seems like there’s been a confusion here.
So just to clarify, my OP goes like such:
1) You have a friend that eats chalav stam (otherwise this wouldn’t make sense, because your friend wouldn’t stick his hands in the bowl of M&Ms, mixed with Skittles, mixed with Reese’s Pieces.
2) Would it be EVIL of YOU to serve your friend said unexpected blend of candies, leaving him to cope with the effects of eating fruity pieces, mixed with peanut butter, combined with candy-coated chocolates.
While I’ve never eaten the combination of all three candies myself, I’ve heard that consuming all three together is quite unpleasant.
3) Nothing in my OP or intention was meant to connect any judgment with chalav stam, and certainly not associate it with the word evil.
As you can see, the COMMA was inserted in the TITLE to separate the two clauses.
THE SENTENCE READS AS SUCH:
If your friend eats chalav stam, is it evil [OF YOU] to serve him a bowl of Reese’s Pieces mixed with Skittles, and with M&M’s?
EVIL = Not so nice to do to a friend, or anyone for the matter (unless this person absolutely loves eating Reese’s Pieces mixed with Skittles, and with M&M’s.
——hope this clarifies it for everyone 🙂 Thank you!September 28, 2017 12:54 pm at 12:54 pm #1372847mentsch1Participant
I don’t understand your comparison
You can’t “hold” chalev akum is treif, it either is pigs milk or it isn’t.
People who don’t drink it are being machmir for a chasash (that in all likelihood doesn’t exist anymore)
As opposed to carrying in RHR which is assur midioreysaSeptember 28, 2017 1:05 pm at 1:05 pm #1372853lowerourtuition11210Participant
mentsch1: Chalav akum does not necessarily mean milk from a non-kosher animal. If one lives a rural farm town that has only kosher animals, the Pri Megadim holds that one can trust the Eino Yehudi that the milk is from a kosher animal and we are not concerned that maybe he went to another town and brought back milk from a non’kosher animal and mixed it in.September 28, 2017 1:17 pm at 1:17 pm #1372859
mentsch1: Those that hold that the kula of Cholov Stam (i.e. relying on governmental oversight instead of a Yid) is invalid, hold that such milk is therefore Cholov Akum and non-kosher. Even if it is really cow’s milk that was milked by someone not Jewish with no Jewish oversight, if one doesn’t accept the C.S./government kula the resulting milk is deemed C.A./non-kosher.
Pashut Halacha from Chazal is that any milk that came without the oversight of a Yid is considered Cholov Akum, and therefore treif, even if it is cow’s milk. Cholov Stam is a kula that you can rely on the government instead of a Yid for the oversight. If you don’t hold that is a valid kula (and many poskim do not, especially in the Chasidic world) then the milk is Cholov Akum/treif even if it is cow’s milk with an OU-D.September 28, 2017 3:29 pm at 3:29 pm #1372959
If your posek holds Cholov Stam is assur, giving CS food to another Yid (who uses it) makes as much sense as giving another Yid (who uses the eruv in NYC) a package to carry on Shabbos if your posek (i.e. Rav Moshe) doesn’t hold neighborhood eruvim in Flatbush, Boro Park and Manhattan are valid.September 28, 2017 3:54 pm at 3:54 pm #13729865ishParticipant
“Pashut Halacha from Chazal is that any milk that came without the oversight of a Yid is considered Cholov Akum, and therefore treif, even if it is cow’s milk. ”
Rav Moshe holds that the problem of Chalav Akum is not that the milk is treif, but that there is a chashash that it is treif.September 28, 2017 3:59 pm at 3:59 pm #1372990MenoParticipant
Joseph can correct me if I’m mistaken, but I believe he is using the term “treif” to mean “assur to consume”.
I think that should clear up the previous 5 or so posts.September 28, 2017 8:47 pm at 8:47 pm #1373783Sam2Participant
Joseph: It’s B’feirush in R’ Moshe that if someone (legitimately) holds something is Muttar that you hold is Assur, then it’s okay to give/help them do what they think is Muttar anyway.September 28, 2017 10:09 pm at 10:09 pm #1373839
Sam, you’re telling me Rav Moshe holds that if someone uses eruvim in Manhattan or Brooklyn that you can give him a package on Shabbos that he’ll carry?September 28, 2017 10:14 pm at 10:14 pm #1373861
Joseph – note the word “legitimately” in Sam’s post. That is the key issue here.
Note: I know nothing about the Eruv issue specifically and I’m not getting involved. But according to what Sam wrote, whether or not Rav Moshe would hold that you can give the guy a package would depend on whether or not R’ Moshe considered those opinions to be legitimate.September 28, 2017 11:23 pm at 11:23 pm #1373871
Lilmod, there are some very legitimate rabbonim/poskim publicly approving eruvim in Brooklyn (and probably Manhattan as well.) And there are opposing rabbonim, also very legitimate, who say anyone carrying — even if they legitimately hold by a Posek who approves of the Eruv — is a Mechallel Shabbos.September 28, 2017 11:23 pm at 11:23 pm #1373872
I should add that there are some poskim who consider the heter for Cholov Stam to not be legitimate. (Despite the big names behind it.)September 28, 2017 11:58 pm at 11:58 pm #1373885👑RebYidd23Participant
There is no reason to argue chalav stam on this thread.September 29, 2017 1:31 am at 1:31 am #1373909GAONParticipant
I agree, even according to Rav Moshe, Chalav Stam is a Kula and not the other way around. Not drinking Chalav stam is not a chumra. Rav Moshe agrees that according to many poskim (Chasam Sofer, Pri Chadash) it is still considered Chalav Akum. Same with eruvin, Rav Moshe wrote that there are definitely on what to rely on and, the ones permitting it have legitimate heterim.
Furthermore, as per minhag through out the ages, poskim relied on all kind of kulos when it came to Eruvin. See Avnei Nezer hilchos Eruvin, Chasam Sofer and others, some basing it on the Gemara הלכה כדברי המיקל בעירובין ואבל”
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