Ikea’s Nazi History
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- This topic has 49 replies, 18 voices, and was last updated 5 years, 1 month ago by Reb Eliezer.
January 29, 2018 8:01 am at 8:01 am #1457967
Does Ikea having been founded and owned by a Swedish Nazi result in your refusal to patronize it?February 4, 2018 6:30 am at 6:30 am #1461751
?February 4, 2018 9:29 am at 9:29 am #1461822
The Swedish Nazi party was different then the German Nazi party, although still anti-semitic. I don’t know if they were guilty of the same atrocity as the Germans. That’s probably why no one has answered. The fast that the founder of IKEA was a member of the Nazi party will not deter me from shopping there.February 4, 2018 11:26 am at 11:26 am #1461850
IBM Invented the Punch cards and mass extermination was not really possible without them
I hope nobody takes Aspirin which was invented by Bayer aka IG FARBEN (After the War IG Farben was split up into many companies including BASF , Bayer , Agfa and Sanofi)February 4, 2018 11:26 am at 11:26 am #1461875ubiquitinParticipant
NoFebruary 4, 2018 11:26 am at 11:26 am #1461908CTLAWYERParticipant
No bearing on my decision. I have never spent one cent at IKEA. Not the style or quality of merchandise I desire.
Bilik iz tayer………ביליק איז טייַער
Cheap is dear.
I’m not interested in disposable furniture, etc.February 4, 2018 11:53 am at 11:53 am #1461948Takes2-2tangoParticipant
When are all the heimishe store gonna stop selling the BOSCH mixer.
Bosch has a long history too. Ots a good thing wigs arent made in germany.February 4, 2018 2:04 pm at 2:04 pm #1462001
CTL: We have found that other products like kitchen supplies, linens, etc are not as disposable as their furniture.February 4, 2018 2:05 pm at 2:05 pm #1462012
CTLAWYER, not all of us can afford your fancy shmancy furniture.February 4, 2018 3:55 pm at 3:55 pm #1462085CTLAWYERParticipant
I don’t have ‘fancy shmancy’ furniture. We buy the best we can afford and it lasts a lifetime or longer. That’s what I was taught by my great grandparents and grandparents, I sit typing this comment at my home office desk that my grandfather bought when he opened his Optometrist practice in 1926.
We have many family pieces that have passed down through the family. We often buy quality used items and reupholster or refinish them. I do not see the value in cheaply made products that don’t last a long time.
I recently reupholstered (me, not a shop) the seats on our dining room chairs. It’s probably the 4th time I’ve done so in 45 years of marriage. B”H I have the tools and ability. My father insisted that all his sons learn how to use hand tools and do basic, carpentry, plumbing, painting and electrical. We are not cliff dwellers, if you are going to own a house you should be able to do basic maintenance. Mrs. CTL was the granddaughter of a painter. He had only daughters and granddaughters..they all learned to paint, sheet rock and wallpaper.
The CTL main house has doubled in size since we bought it decades ago. All work was done by us and siblings except for those items such as framing, installing an in-ground pool and plumbing and electrical required to be done by a licensed person in order to get permits and COs.
B”H, I still get exercise mowing, my lawn , shoveling the snow and taking out the trash.
The only 2 pieces of furniture I might think fancy are ‘Ebony and Ivory’ our Black and White Grand Pianos. The Black we bought for our children to learn and play on. The White belonged to my late MIL and moved in with us when she did. She taught our children all to play.February 4, 2018 4:20 pm at 4:20 pm #1462130
For some of us, the best we can afford is Ikea or less.February 4, 2018 6:51 pm at 6:51 pm #1462163DovidBTParticipant
Is this topic analogous to buying a computer from a company whose CEO openly transgresses the Noachide laws?February 4, 2018 6:52 pm at 6:52 pm #1462196
CTL, do you enjoy elaborating for as many people as possible all the luxuries you enjoy all the while explaining why they aren’t luxuries?February 4, 2018 6:53 pm at 6:53 pm #1462197
Do any Ikea customers who refuse to buy German, even German products from companies never associated with Nazism, have a good explanation why they purchase from Ikea – a Nazi founded and owned company?February 5, 2018 7:05 am at 7:05 am #1462351icemelterParticipant
zahavasdad and all those who make a mockery of boycotting nazi y”s origin companies. Its isnt a joke, there is good reason not to buy from these companies as some have direct lines to the ss. All you fancies out there who feel you are above everyone and purchasing “hugo boss” just remember that he was of the nazi party and also designed their uniforms which they wore when they ruthlessly murdered your families. And all those driving german cars because you feel the need, just remember that hit–r himself yimach shemo vezichro had a hand in creating and naming the volkswagon company. Siemens (also a german company) recently tried launching the “zyklon” vacuum cleaner and after an uproar they mentioned they had no idea about the zyklon gas used to exterminate jews and did not even apologize for the “coincidence”.
There is a long list of these companies who not only have an anti jewish past,but some even continue to this day. Even Ford which makes you think of such an american company, the founder henry ford was a ruthless anti semite, great supporter of the german leader, and even travelled to germany for a photo shoot receiving the highest medal given to a foreigner by the ss.
Its true that there may be many companies out there who arent fond of yidden, but they dont come close to this. These companies were actually used and proactively volunteered to destroy us.
Still funny?February 5, 2018 7:19 am at 7:19 am #1462381
Litvishechossid, people who boycott Germany will buy a Ford instead of a Volkswagen.February 5, 2018 11:12 am at 11:12 am #1462565
The reality is not that people are mocking a boycott, but its really impossible in todays global economy to boycott anything.
Even simply boycotting BMW, Most BMW’s that are sold in the US are made in South Carolina. Personally I would try to avoid driving a BMW or Volkswagen, but honestly I have been in Germany (Wasnt possible to avoid as it was a free airline ticket) and even the Map of germany has changed. Prague used to be a German City, In fact so was Lviv (Lemberg) and its not anywhere near Germany anymoreFebruary 5, 2018 11:12 am at 11:12 am #1462555
Zyklon B was actually invented by a Jew named Fritz Haber , HE even won a Noble Prize for it (He died in 1934 before he knew what it would do including killing his siblings)February 5, 2018 12:42 pm at 12:42 pm #1462672
Lemberg and Prague were never part of Germany. (Other than German occupation during WWII.) But they have had notable ethnic German communities living in the cities.February 5, 2018 1:05 pm at 1:05 pm #1462680
litvishechosid: Although many of my family were in the US from the 1920’s or before, I did have many relatives (especially in paternal grandfather’s family) who were murdered by the Nazi’s YMSH. My father A”H tried his best to not buy known German products but as “ZD” has pointed out, in today’s economy it is virtually impossible to still hold by that standard.February 5, 2018 1:26 pm at 1:26 pm #1462714
Lemberg and Prague WERE german Cities, however after World War 2, the Germans were kicked out of most countries and forced to move to the post world war 2 boundaries of Germany. The german Cities of Danzing and Konisgburg became the Polish city of Gdansk and the Russian city of Kalingrad
In Fact Prague was the capital of the Holy Roman Empire until it was moved to Vienna
German city does not mean it was a part of Germany. Austria is a german country yet is not part of Germany (Except during WW 2) Lemberg and Prague were part of Austria-HungaryFebruary 5, 2018 2:12 pm at 2:12 pm #1462732jdf007Participant
I know, or at least thought, that IKEA is family owned. However, for most other companies you talk about, they are owned by shareholders, and run by a board of directors. Then you have factories in America and China. They are really as diluted as can be. How many levels of people and generations do you have to go through to get to the original Nazi? Or even IBM? You mean Lenovo, a China company.
As for the goods at Ikea, I like going, it is like a mini trip to Sweden (at least the ones I get to see). The goods are international. I never see furniture imported from Finland, notebooks from Lativa, etc. at the Wal-Mart or Dollar General. It’s fascinating.
What about we focus on present day Nazi’s? There’s a good facebook story going on out there, you can have dozens of genders, but Israel doesn’t exist. Or what about Heinz? You have Kerry going to meet and reinvigorate Abbas to keep doing his old games and tricks, while he’s married to an anti-Israel activist right?
And so on down the chain.
Boycott Mercedes while we buy New Zealand wool? It doesn’t seem to be consistent.February 5, 2018 2:12 pm at 2:12 pm #1462725
Lemberg and Prague were not German cities.February 5, 2018 7:17 pm at 7:17 pm #1462862lesschumrasParticipant
Zahavasdad, Lemberg is in Ukraine and was never a german city, either by rule or population
The only sizable german population were german Jews expelled by the Germans in the 1300s and welcomed by King Casimir, who controlled the cityFebruary 5, 2018 8:10 pm at 8:10 pm #1462886
Lemberg is in Ukraine and was never a german city, either by rule or population
Lemberg is a German name , its called Lviv now which is Ukranian.
Lemberg was one of the reginal Capitals of Austria-Hungary which was a German EmpireFebruary 5, 2018 8:11 pm at 8:11 pm #1462872ArielskiParticipant
How long should we condemn someone who has repeatedly apologized and asked for foregivness?February 5, 2018 9:11 pm at 9:11 pm #1462908
How long should we condemn someone who has repeatedly apologized and asked for foregivness?
Some sins can never be forgiven, however there does come a time to move on, otherwise the hate will just consume you. Moving on is not the same as forgivingFebruary 5, 2018 9:12 pm at 9:12 pm #1462900
What if Hitler, Stalin, Pol Pot or Ted Bundy apologizes and asks for forgiveness?
Or Amalek.February 5, 2018 10:28 pm at 10:28 pm #1462920icemelterParticipant
iacisrmma- yes but you can try the best you can on the most significant items and those you know for sure have a link to their nazi past.
Arielski- Who asked for forgiveness? Even those old war criminals who apologized did it to get less of a penalty. Monsters who commited such acts have such a deep hatred rooted inside of them that their apologies are worthless.
Its true that most companies/people might hate jews but if one of the companies blatantly admits to it, would it make it less comfortable to buy their products? Do you really need to drive a volkswagon, or a mercedes or buy an IBM?February 6, 2018 10:44 am at 10:44 am #1463077
Do you really need to drive a volkswagon, or a mercedes or buy an IBM?
No, but you might need to take some medication from Bayer like Aspirin or Claritin
Bayer also own Monsanto which is the largest seed manufacturer in the US. so If you ate any sort of item grown in the US, you probably bought something from MonsantoFebruary 6, 2018 11:28 am at 11:28 am #1463175jdf007Participant
I see we’re still going on about IBM (no longer exists). For example, Do you see RCA products in stores? The RCA name exists in name only licensed to Chinese manufacturers. They’re not really RCA, at least to me.
Then there’s Bayer. You can buy their stock on the open market. Do you think the people who own the stock are the same as the people in the 1930’s? These companies are way too big and diluted to even talk about forgiving. I think the cells of the company have all been too reconstituted and diluted.
I am not saying go ahead and buy VW, or Mercedes (their best rated, and most important plant worldwide is in my metro, in the United States, with American Workers). I am saying, instead of arguing about the faint ghost of Nazi’s in some companies that only share the name, let’s go after the current ones.
What is the connection of Teresa Heinz (currently living) to the Heinz corporation? She and her Husband Secretary Kerry have no issues fundraising for anti-Israel initiatives.
Are we boycotting Mercedes and Bayer while buying Heinz pickles for example?
Lastly, maybe if we were talking about a company that is family run through the generations, I could understand. Maybe. But it looks like you’re using big, faceless, corporations as your examples, while ignoring current threats.
Lastly lastly, who are we asking for forgiveness (while ignoring the current hatemongers). The retirees with their 401(k)’s, or the shift supervisors from Texas to Tennessee?February 6, 2018 12:47 pm at 12:47 pm #1463194
Another Big German Nazi Company Reichpost which was the official Mail service of the Nazis
After the war it became Detche Telekom otherwise known to us as T-Mobile and Metro PCS.February 6, 2018 12:47 pm at 12:47 pm #1463195
Ikea is still, effectively, owned by the original Swedish Nazi founder (who just died) through the foundation her created to put his corporate shares into.February 6, 2018 2:13 pm at 2:13 pm #1462893
From the Lviv tourism website
A Rich Habsburg Inheritance
A Rich Habsburg Inheritance
Issue 5, September 2008. Lviv History
This September Lviv will step back in time to an age of imperial spendour as the city celebrates its Habsburg past with a season of Austrian cultural highlights. This new event reflects a fresh bond between Lviv and Vienna that is rekindling the old Habsburg tradition of regional regeneration.
For most Lviv citizens, the Habsburg period is just a name, or perhaps a legend. There is little to suggest that Lviv was a particularly prosperous city in the 19th century, at least by European standards, but because the subsequent eras were such bitter periods in Ukrainian history, the Habsburg Empire has come to be viewed as somehow benign and beneficial. This is partly thanks to the freedoms and sway Ukrainians were eventually able to enjoy under the Habsburg’s federal system, but it is also partly acknowledgement that a very large part of what makes Lviv so special today is thanks to the diligence and excellence of the early modern Habsburg system. In honour of their Habsburg heritage Lviv citizens are expected to renamed a street in the city Viennese Street, and this homage to the Habsburg past looks likely to continue for some time yet.
As Lviv gradually rediscovers its fashionable high society roots and the city gentrifies itself, it is inevitable that people will start to point to the longer European link the region enjoys instead of focusing exclusively on the more recent Soviet experience. Seeing yourself as a European in today’s Ukraine has become something of a status symbol in itself, and Lviv’s European culture gives it enormous kudos. It is also often a factor in allowing European businessmen to set up operations in the region, commenting that the European architecture of the city helps them to feel at home. In the days of the Habsburg Empire Lviv was known as Lemberg, the graceful capital city of Galicia, the north-eastern province of the realm. Even then, as part of an empire which had stretched down to the shored of the Adriatic Sea Galicia was a backwater.
At the 1919 Versailles Peace Conference one British diplomat is said to have actually made the embarrassing blunder of confusing Habsburg Galicia with the Spanish province of the same name, but he would not have been alone in knowing little about the largely rural and distant border region. After a brief period of independent rule, the Kingdom of Galicia had been absorbed into the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth and later the Polish monarchy in the latter Middle Ages. When Poland was portioned for the first time in 1772 Lviv came under Habsburg rule for the first time. The Viennese Emperors had as far east as they could, and for 150 years Lviv served as the easternmost capital of the empire, as if destined to be forever a borderland buffer zone. Nobody knew this at the time, however, and Lviv was the recipient of enormous government funding over the coming decades as the city was developed in line with Viennese ideas of what a regional capital city should look like.
The Archetypal Habsburg Hub
Today’s Lviv has become synonymous with Ukrainian nationalism, but in reality 19th century Lviv was in many was the archetypal Habsburg city, populated by a diverse ethnic and national mix of communities that reflected the multi-ethnic make-up of the Habsburg crown’s patchwork domains. This multi-national population turned Lviv in a proud imperial city and created an ambience that remains tangible in the gentle Austrian architecture and thoughtful coffee shop culture of today’s Lviv. The empire conjures up images of cream cake and coffee in a cultured setting, and doesn’t really seem like occupation. It is not uncommon to refer to the Habsburg period as a Golden Age of religious tolerance, booming trade and great construction works. This is not to say that Ukrainians were always at odds with the Habsburgs. When the first university opened in Habsburg Lviv in 1784 instruction was offered in Latin, German and Polish, and it was only three years later that Ukrainians were allowed to create their own Rutherian faculty.
The men who built Lviv
Lviv under the Poles had, by the middle of the eighteen century, come to be a period of stagnation and poverty, perhaps best exemplified by the tale of how the visiting Austrian Emperor Joseph II found himself trapped in a huge pothole outside the city gates when paying a visit in 1783, less than ten years since he’d taken control of the province itself. This personal encounter with the harsh realities of life in post-Polish Lviv may well have focused the Emperor’s mind on the task at hand – certainly the Austrians set about renovating their new position and bringing it up to scratch. Much of Lviv’s distinctive early modern city centre dates from this prolonged burst of Habsburg building throughout the 19th century. Much of the work was selected following open tenders that attracted some of the most talented architects of the era, and this system also helped create the incredible eclectic ensemble on display in central Lviv.
An Eastern Outpost
For the past two decades Lviv has been viewed almost exclusively as a isolated Western outpost in a vast Soviet ocean, but 150 years ago the country had been part of the pre-eminent central European empire and had been very much part of the European cultural world. In Habsburg days the population felt itself propelled westward by the cultural impulses of their pan-European lifestyles, whereas in more recent times the pull has been eastern . Lviv will now have a key role to play on a psychological level as the country attempts to make headway along its path to European integration. Lviv can help win the battle both at home and abroad if it can balance its European heritage with its patriotic aspirations.
Vienna Art Academy graduate Julius Gohberger (1840 — 1905) is one of the key figures in the story of modern Lviv. He was director of the city’s building projects for much of the later 19th century. Inspired by different styles, Mr. Gohberger was eager to create whole streets of interesting buildings and alternative buildings where you can contrast baroque with rococo, or Roman and Gothic. Some of the best examples of Mr. Gohberger’s work are to be found at St. Anna school (Built in 1876. Located on the corner of Horodotska Str. with 2 Leontovycha str.), St. Mariad Magdalena school (11 S. Bandery str.), and the Mitskewich School (built in 1893 at 15 Teatralna Str.).
Lviv also owes a lot to the Director of the Viennese Academy of Aplied Arts Petro Nobile, who worked wonder’s on the governor’s palace during reconstruction works in 1840, but in reality it would be impossible to name all the great Habsburg craftsmen who created the architectural splendour of modern Lviv. Among this Central European cityscape the monuments to the Habsburg epoch stand on every corner. The university building crowns the splendid order of the south side of the city centre, with its big city side streets and artistic outcrops, but the real gem is the opera house, located at the end of the city’s strolling paradise Prospekt Svobody. Lviv Opera House was named last year as one of the seven wonders of Ukraine, but it is a monument that is plagued by the legend of its creator. Built over three years at the turn of the 20th century, the design for the new opera house had been chosen by an independent jury, who favoured an ambitious plan to create room for an opera house in a prime location by covering over the Poltva river and using revolutionary new techniques to build the opera house without digging tradition foundations but by relying on a concrete base. The author of this plan, a brilliant Polish architect Zygmunt Gorgolewski, was a graduate of the Berlin Building School who had already been responsible for numerous prominent state buildings throughout central Europe. His audacious gamble appeared to have backfired when the building appeared to start subsiding within months of its completion. There were fears that the entire construction could collapse into the river below, but this never happened, of course. The opera house stabilised and has been a source of local pride ever since. Tragically, according to local legend, the news that his greatest work was sinking sent Mr. Gogolewski into a deep depression, which local lore insists ended with him committing suicide. Other versions insist that he and died of heart failure or other natural courses, but the story continues to do the rounds, a suitably macabre addition to the wedding cake beauty of the opera house in the best traditions of Lviv irreverence.
A thoroughly European operation from top to bottom
The opera house itself is a classic example of an 19th century European operation, with Austrian giants Seimens providing the electric lights Polish mechanics providing the stage. A Belgian company, meanwhile provided linen for the curtains in the foyer and throughout the theatre. -When it opened on October 4, 1900, Lviv Opera House was very briefly the focus of the cultural world. A string of regional dignitaries and opera legends attended the grand opening. The opera has hosted many spectacular nights since then, and remains a centrepiece of any city tour.
Viennese visitors to Lemberg in the 19th century often commented on how at home they felt. Much like today’s Lviv, Austrian Lemberg was a fast-growing and developing city. It was a place where a dynamic culture of change made it possible for new and innovative techniques to be implemented. It is no surprise that 19th century Lviv was one the first cities in Europe to have electrically powered street lighting, mains gas supplies, telephone lines and electric trams. The first recorded football match in Ukrainian history took place in Habsburg Lviv (Lviv beat Krakow, for the record), while the city was often the host of major regional trade fairs, which were the 19th century equivalents of Euro 2012 and did much to boost Lemberg’s reputation as a city that was at the very cutting edge of modernity.
Putting Lviv on the European railway map
Habsburg rule also coincided with the development of rail travel, with Lviv immediately plugged into a central European rail network that inked it to Paris Prague and Berlin. Lviv’s majestic railway station dates back from this period and still offers a hint of the massive pride felt in the wonders of industrialised mass travel for the first time in human history. After the standard Habsburg architecture competition, a plan by Wladyslaw Sadlowski was finally chosen in 1888. The first class waiting rooms are said to have been directly modelled on the interior of an
Englishman’s London clubhouse, this being the apparent benchmark of the time. It has since heavily influence later train stations in Prague and Vienna itself, another example of the trend-setting role Lviv often had in Habsburg times.
During World War II the terminal building suffered extensive damage, but local activists managed to persuade the Soviet authorities to allow the rebuild the structure while remaining faithful to the original plans.February 6, 2018 10:24 pm at 10:24 pm #1464110JJ2020Participant
Ford was a big anti Semite. Don’t buy gas from any co that gets oil from anti semitic countries.February 6, 2018 10:29 pm at 10:29 pm #1464114meshal the bachur 2018Participant
I believe to not boycot but to be chatzy chatzy…. ask a ravFebruary 7, 2018 10:03 am at 10:03 am #1464362
The only differnce between driving a mercedes and using T-Mobile is you are broadcasting it. Everyone know you have a mercedes, People wont know that you have t-mobile unless you tell themFebruary 7, 2018 11:01 am at 11:01 am #1464468
Anyone interested in this topic should read Benjamin Ferencz’s book “Less Than Slaves” where he recounts the attempts to get the large German corporations to pay reparations to survivors who were used as slave labor in their companies. Some of these trials/negotiations lasted well into the 1960’s and 1970’s (not so long ago) and the vicious attitudes of the company owners/officials are eye-opening. They never bore any responsibility for their actions and some actually had the chutzpah to say that “by using slaves we saved jews who otherwise would have been killed” and therefore owe nothing to anybody. If you read this book, you will really think twice about buying products from these companies. The next generation needs to be educated about this. It is very disturbing to see frum 20/30-somethings driving BMW’s and Mercedes when their grandparents or greatgrandparents were either killed or enslaved. The sad part is that they are not making a conscious decision; they are just totally ignorant of the history. Sad…February 7, 2018 11:29 am at 11:29 am #1464487
Should we BDS against Germany?February 7, 2018 11:29 am at 11:29 am #1464488lesschumrasParticipant
You’re making the founder sound like a full blown Nazi. He was a TEENAGER during the war and was influenced by his German grandparents and the charisma of the Swedish party’s founder. He has apologised repeatedly since it became known in the 1990s.February 7, 2018 11:29 am at 11:29 am #1464496
You missed the point, In this day and age of globalization its almost impossible to avoid buying German. Just because BMW and Mercedes are the most well known german companies, doesnt even mean they were the worst (IG Farben was the worst , in fact it was so bad it was split up into Bayer and BASF)
In fact there is a T-mobile store right near Borough park on Church Ave, I bet alot of frum people go thereFebruary 7, 2018 11:42 am at 11:42 am #1464518
Church Avenue isn’t in Boro Park.February 7, 2018 12:04 pm at 12:04 pm #1464527
I said Near Borough Park, its by Church and McDonald Ave. its Kensington
Metro PCS is on 13th Ave in Borough Park (Metro PCS is a subsidiary of T-Mobile aka Deutche Telekom )February 7, 2018 2:25 pm at 2:25 pm #1464624
zahavasdad – I didn’t miss the point. I’m making another point. I believe it is still valid to try to avoid conspicuous consumption of consumer products i.e. BMW, Mercedes, when it is possible to buy something else equally good, even as a chinuch to our children and especially for a gashmius item, like a nicer car or piece of clothing, that we do not forget so easily the crimes committed against us. We need to remember Amalek and we need to remember the Germans. Obviously, if the item is something needed for health, i.e. medication, medical equipment, etc. then we should use it by all means. to jdf007: you’re right, we do need to go after the current “nazis”, but we need to remember the ghosts to realize the harm the new ones can bring if gone unchecked.February 7, 2018 4:20 pm at 4:20 pm #1464844
So do you advocate that every jew should dump T-mobile / Metro PCS and get Verizon, Sprint or AT&T?February 7, 2018 6:24 pm at 6:24 pm #1464994
No, thats ridiculous.February 7, 2018 10:43 pm at 10:43 pm #1465261
So why is it OK to have T-mobile and not a BMW?February 8, 2018 10:04 pm at 10:04 pm #1465645keithParticipant
Hi. Off-topic to ZahavasDad: From a response you gave previously to me – but the thread is closed and I don’t know how to contact you otherwise…
“Unfortunatly many of those books are not welcome in some frum communities 1984 contains Prizus for example and Hucklberry finn contains Nivel Peh.”
Nivel Peh is I think bad language. What is Prizus?February 15, 2018 11:39 pm at 11:39 pm #1470429☢️ Rand0m3x 🎲Participant
And no one responds to LessChumras, of course.February 19, 2018 2:09 pm at 2:09 pm #1471916Reb EliezerParticipant
The Jews renamed the Austrian city named Deutschkreutz to Zelem or Tzelem in English.
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