Illegal curb cuts and NO PARKING signs in Boro Park

Home Forums Local & Neighborhood Issues Illegal curb cuts and NO PARKING signs in Boro Park

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  • #1647757

    leah1532
    Participant

    To All Boro Park Residents Who Assume They OWN that Illegally Obtained Parking Space in Front of Their Home,
    Living in a densely populated area, Baruch Hashem, we have unfortunately been eyewitness to the inappropriate acts of double parking, blocking driveways, etc. An issue that has been discussed in the past a great deal. Just take a minute and look at the parking issue from a different perspective.
    Let’s review a rampant and unethical sham occurring amidst our lovely neighborhood. Does one have the entitlement to a parking spot directly in front of their house?
    The NYC law allowances for curb cuts is limited to those that have a LEGAL driveway, garage, or carport. Having a bogus garage or carport does not validate the benefits of a curb cut. Another law we need to examine is a very simple one. One may not reserve a parking space. Among the many things it clearly lists as being unlawful is; unauthorized pavement, curb or street markings or signs in the roadway. In addition to fake curb cuts in BP, the latest way of hijacking a parking space is by placing various signs.
    There is an additional aspect to this matter we cannot ignore. Those who have these self- obtained parking spots can sometimes go even further. Do homeowners, who illegally claim ownership to a parking space in front of their home, whether by a fake curb cut or the placement of a sign, have the right to glue papers to the windows of or deface the cars they consider violated their unlawfully acquired entitlement of NYC property? How does one go about vandalizing another’s property?
    Furthermore, it is interesting to note that some individuals coordinate this as a family activity. They linger by their window to await and see if someone will block their illegally structured driveway or carport. As soon as the innocent driver leaves his car, the homeowner or sometimes his children, start with the gluing activity. What type of chinuch are we giving our children? What message are we sending them? Children learn by example!
    There are an abundant of fake carports throughout all of Boro Park. They are mainly constructed in the space that the home’s garden used to be with a bit of an indentation into the home. Many people place the typical NO PARKING signs to intimidate anyone audacious enough to park on the street blocking their fake curb cut.
    There are some interesting signs worth examining. The property owner of one different sign politely requests: “PLEASE PARK AFTER TREE – tight driveway”. This owner is kindly asking, even using the word “please”, not to park your car until after the tree so there is room for their car to park on the street. The curb cut alone is insufficient space for their vehicle. Another homeowner hangs a sign “Don’t even THINK of parking here.” He is instructing everyone who drives by his home, to dare not even contemplate parking in front of his house. Unfortunately, this owner is not as polite as the one mentioned above and even comes across as threatening.
    Did a homeowner cause a driver to get a ticket because he blocked a deceptive curb cut? Did a homeowner cause somebody to circle around the block in search of a parking space due to an illegal curb cut or sign?
    The laws mentioned above clearly confirm that these matters constitute Goizel ess Harabim. The homeowner stole from his caring good neighbors, the people of his town, as well as any foreign visitor who drove down his block in search of a parking space. Majority of the people assume they are deceiving the city by making a fake carport, garage, paint the curb yellow in front of their home, place no parking signs, etc. What they don’t realize is that it is a far greater issue they are transgressing. In addition to unethically cheating the government with the spot they seized for themselves, they essentially stole from every single person in the entire world who would choose to park there at any given time.
    Any type of No Parking sign and illegal curb cut, prevents uninformed drivers from parking in a legal public parking spot. Every time someone circles around the block, looking for parking, and passes your illegally reserved parking spot, that also transgresses Lo Sisna.
    If he is your neighbor, he greets you with a smile daily. But at the same time, he is thinking of the ticket he received due to your sham or the lost time incurred circling the block not wanting to incite you. He also thinks of you as a Musser, and he is validly concerned. Should he park in your stolen spot you may perhaps call 911 and he will get ticketed. Legally, he can fight it and win it in court. But your neighbor is an honest Yid and he will not be a Musser and inform the city about your illegally reserved spot. Hopefully, those drivers that already know these signs and curb cuts are unlawful, are not intimidated by these bullying tactics.
    So dear homeowner of an illegal curb cut or no parking sign, the next time you greet your nice neighbor on Shabbos, remember what he is thinking of you. He identifies you as a Gazlen, a Musser and a Bully.
    I am sure that all honest BP residents want to correct their wrong doings. In such a case, how does one even repay all those unidentified individuals one stole from? The halacha states, one who is Oiver on Goizel ess Harabim needs to repay the public, and suggests that he can build a new public park. Maybe in today’s day we can also suggest building a public parking garage. This would enable all those neighbors one stole parking from to have sufficient parking place.
    Dear Drivers, Have you ever been honored by such obnoxious behavior? What would your response be?

    #1647802

    🐵 ⌨ Gamanit
    Participant

    Your post is full of assumptions. How are you ascertaining whether or not a curb cut is legal or not? Is it possible that you are perhaps blocking someone’s parking spot that they paid nice money to legalize? If they’re sitting by the window and waiting to make sure their driveway is clear it’s probably an active driveway. They are probably sick and tired of getting parking tickets due to not being able to park in their own driveway.

    Another point; in order to pull into a driveway a driver needs enough space to turn. Would you rather take the chance of them nicking your car on the way in? I think it’s nice for them to tell you where you can safely park. I suggest that when your neighbor greets you with a smile you should return the gesture. You may very well be judging him for no reason at all.

    #1647815

    leah1532
    Participant

    I am not assuming anything. I am personally aware of 10 people living in BP that have an illegal curb cut. 3 of them have been cited, but decided to leave it anyway (it was worth it for them financially if they get cited by the DOB again) A n attached house that doesn’t have a proper garage to pull into, or a car port with less than 5 foot easement and the actual port 8.5 feet wide x 18 feet deep is illegal. In addition there are other rules. So just drive around and see for yourself!

    One of those people do the paper glue activity. There is one person I know personally that has a fake garage door. He has a dinette in the place where his garage is supposedly located. He can open the door and has about 3 feet of storage space as well as some crawl space. He davens in my shul every shabbos. I got regards from a friend of mine that he damaged someones car because he parked by a sign that said no parking from here. This here is 5 feet away from the illegal curb cut! That guy has 2 issues. One is the stealing of a parking space and the second in reserving a parking space and then damaging someone’s car!

    Do you still give these specific people the right!

    #1647837

    Joseph
    Participant

    Curb cuts going to a spot on the front lawn aren’t legal in NYC.

    If a homeowner damages a car blocking an illegal curb cut, he runs the much greater risk of the car owner then damaging his home.

    #1648120

    The little I know
    Participant

    Leah:

    There are literally hundreds of parking spaces in BP that are blocked for completely meaningless reasons.

    We have 2-3 times the number of hydrants needed. Firefighters typically use much more hose than they did in the past. The 15 feet in either direction from the pump is an obsolete requirement to assist access.

    There are many shuls that have extended no parking regs. Can anyone share a reason for this?

    The length of bus stops is absurd, often an entire block.

    Businesses that do not use their driveways at night still prohibit parking there with “24-hour” signs. This is clearly dishonest.

    Parking in BP is a mess. We have witnessed candidates campaign for local office promising to fix this. To date, no one did. reason, I presume, is the revenue from citations is wanted. Sorry, but that is greed and immoral.

    #1648151

    ☕ DaasYochid ☕
    Participant

    Businesses that do not use their driveways at night still prohibit parking there with “24-hour” signs. This is clearly dishonest.

    No it’s not.

    #1648152

    ☕ DaasYochid ☕
    Participant

    A n attached house that doesn’t have a proper garage to pull into, or a car port with less than 5 foot easement and the actual port 8.5 feet wide x 18 feet deep is illegal. In addition there are other rules. So just drive around and see for yourself!

    Regulations have changed, and some are legally grandfathered in.

    #1648198

    Joseph
    Participant

    The ones legally grandfathered in are generally homes built decades ago and had a driveway back then. The homes built in the last 40+ years are subject to current regulations.

    #1648250

    yaakov doe
    Participant

    There are “parking pads” and “driveways” in NYC, Neither is allowed unless it’s at least 18′ deep from the legal curb cut. Curb cuts require permits and it is illegal to paint any markings on the city street or city owned curb. Parking in front yards is never permitted. The illegal curb cuts contribute to the parking nightmare in Boro Park and deprive motorists of legal curbside parking spaces. From time to time the issue of serious enforcement to crack down on the illegal curb cuts comes up in City Council and within the Buildings Department which is the agency with enforcement responsibility., and it appears that a new enforcement initiative is coming soon.

    #1648221

    yid18
    Participant

    Leah, why don’t you reach out to one of the heimishe politicians in office. Let them do something.
    It’s noy enough to vent here. Do action.

    #1648265

    leah1532
    Participant

    Maybe I should be thinking of running for office! This might be one topic that unites all different factions in Boro Park.

    #1648299

    🐵 ⌨ Gamanit
    Participant

    Joseph- some people renovate old homes instead of knocking them down and building a new one in order to grandfather in such things. Unless you were watching the construction you would think it’s a new home. It still counts as the old house if the house was fully gutted, extended and given brand new exterior. Unless you know for sure that something is legal don’t jump to conclusions.

    Personally I get annoyed over legal driveways as well sometimes but there’s nothing I can do about those so I just swallow it. There are some blocks that have hardly any parkings spots at all between all the driveways, fire hydrants and bus stops. I don’t know why they require more than 1′ on either side of a fire hydrant being as I have never ever seen a fire truck pull into the spot. Ever. They just don’t do it. All they really need is space for their hose. Just changing that law would open up so many more legal spots.

    #1648313

    👑RebYidd23
    Participant

    There simply isn’t room for all the cars, regardless of which cars specifically are given the right to park.

    #1648324

    Joseph
    Participant

    Gamanit: A tell-tell of illegal driveways is when you see two driveways right next to each other. Regulations prohibit two driveways from being too close. And the old houses virtually never had two driveways close to each other, as the old house were more spaced out than the new homes. Another tell-tell, as mentioned earlier, is when the curb cut leads to a spot in front of the home, rather than to the side or a backyard garage. And another is when the curb isn’t cut but there’s still signs in front of the house saying Do Not Block Driveway or something of the like. Or when there’s yellow paint in front of a non-driveway.

    #1648325

    leah1532
    Participant

    You are missing my point. Why should Mr. X, who I know personally, who has an illegal curb cut…, have a saved space (a marked curb cut, plus a sign hanging in the street. His XL minivan doesn’t fit into the space of the curb cut alone, this sign gives him an extra 5 feet to be able to park his car in the street). By the way, this uses up 2 parking spaces since he doesn’t let you park past a certain point so it is easy for him to get his car in to a spot on the street. If he would have a LEGAL driveway and pull in to it, he would then be rightfully taking only one spot. Now he stole 2!

    He doesn’t use his bogus parking space on his property either_ he would crash right into his dinette- he has the curb cut only so no one should dare take the spot in front of his house, this way he has ample parking in the street). Now when he comes home, whichever part of the day or night it should just be, he has a spot in front of his house waiting for him. Me, his next-door neighbor, who didn’t steal a spot from NYC and from everyone else in this world, needs to park 2 blocks away because I must be kind and let him have his parking space in the street (since his parking curb is bogus).
    And he is not the only one!! That was my point today.

    Did anyone ever dare upset such a brazen person and park blocking his bogus driveway? What happened? What did you do about it?

    If you own such a curb cut or hung a sign, are you aware that this falls under Goizel ess Harabim?

    #1648331

    goygetter
    Participant

    Most illegal driveways are occupied by cars that would otherwise be parked elsewhere on the street.
    So removing them would statistically not solve the parking problem at all. Rather it might make it worse since cars parked in a (narrow) driveway take up less room.
    The empty driveways you see are usually the legal ones, since there’s no reason a person would make an illegal driveway if they’re not using it…..

    #1648377

    Joseph
    Participant

    gg: There’s a silly comment. An illegal curb cut is unavailable to the public for parking 24/7 even if the homeowner only uses it a few hours a day for himself. So it remains empty and unused whereas had there been no curb cut other people could park there when the homeowner wasn’t parked there.

    #1648422

    leah1532
    Participant

    Joseph: Well said! That is one of the main points here!

    #1648456

    Takes2-2tango
    Participant

    Just curious if anyone. Can post some photos of these supposed illegal curb cuts/driveways/garages.
    Im not from the area and curious to know what your all discussing.

    #1648530

    🐵 ⌨ Gamanit
    Participant

    Joseph- just wasted a whole bunch of time on the DOB website to verify before responding. On my block there are a whole bunch of double driveways leading to spots in front of houses (with garage if they care to use it). I found permits on file for every single one on the dept. of buildings website. I also found permits on file for other curb cuts leading to spots in front of houses (again these technically have garages; the fact that the garage is being used for storage doesn’t change it’s legality). According to NYC regulations you must assume that a curb cut is legal unless you can prove otherwise. With these old grandfathered garages you can often only find mention of it on the original C of O. If you want to look up your own block it may be worthwhile for you to verify where you may or may not park. Don’t jump to conclusions though because as you see your own “hints” are inaccurate.

    #1648549

    🐵 ⌨ Gamanit
    Participant

    Takes2-2tango – just go to google maps and “drive” up and down the streets of Boro Park and Bensonhurst. You’ll see plenty of curb cuts that may or may not be legal. It’s complicated to verify though

    #1648593

    leah1532
    Participant

    Gamanit:

    Addresses removed.-79

    One is a fake garage door. 2 others just cut out their front lawn….. The other’s on the block, I do no know their story, therefore I can’t say for sure that they are illegal. I personally know of 5 people that have fake garage doors on their homes in BP.

    If you drive through Boro Park and Bensonhurst and the houses are attached, and not recessed more than the usual amount required law, the curb cut is USUALLY illegal.

    If you check the DOT laws, the driveway needs to lead to a legal garage or legal parking port. Storage can be removed to park one’s car, therefore you are probably right about that. But if one build a house in their garage, it nullifies the old permit for the car port and they must redo the sidewalk. If one just made a ramp leading to their basement and placed a fake door on the basement wall, that does not make it a free reserved parking space in the street.

    Law, as is written about blocking driveways: The prohibition herein shall not apply to driveways that have been rendered unusable due to the presence of a building or other fixed obstruction and, therefore, are not being used as defined in §4-01(b) of these rules.
    The Law , as is written about saving a place to park: Unofficial reserving of parking space. It shall be unlawful for any person to reserve or attempt to reserve a parking space, or prevent any vehicle from parking on a public street through his/her presence in the roadway, the use of hand-signals, or by placing any box, can, crate, handcart, dolly or any other device, including unauthorized pavement, curb or street markings or signs in the roadway.

    #1648595

    leah1532
    Participant

    I have no problem that someone parks his car in an illegal car port. (kol Hakavod , the issue of stealing is between him and hashem)
    What I am trying to create awareness to, as noted above by others too, that hence, this spot becomes a saved place where no one can park – even when the owner of the home is away! If he is parked there all day, it makes no difference to anyone on the block if he has his car in the port or out on the street. But when he leaves during the day, is out for a simcha, or away for a few days, why should that spot be waiting patiently, ready for him the second he comes home! He doesn’t own it! We all pay taxes around here and have equal partnership to all public parking spaces.

    #1648597

    Neville ChaimBerlin
    Participant

    Slightly related:

    When there is construction going on at a residential house and the construction workers spraypaint “No Parking” on the plywood wall around the project for people not to park in front of the construction site, is that actually enforceable? I understand they need to be able to get their equipment in and out, but wouldn’t they need an official sign from the city to block off parking?

    #1648626

    👑RebYidd23
    Participant

    Leah1532. many driveway owners put up the sign “Do Not Block Driveway” after they get blocked while they are parked in the driveway.

    #1648671

    leah1532
    Participant

    To block someone into a driveway, legal or not, is just plain Rishus!
    2 wrongs don’t make one right: It is still illegal for them to put up a sign if they are not entitled to that parking place.

    #1648673

    yid18
    Participant

    Leah, go for it. Ruchy Freier became a judge. You can get voted in also.
    You sound intelligent and a go getter. Go out and get involved. Venting here is only the beginning.
    Go. Do it. I support you.

    #1648707

    👑RebYidd23
    Participant

    Signs are free speech.

    #1648754

    leah1532
    Participant

    RebYidd23: You are 100% correct about that. Signs placed on one’s property do have some regulations regarding sizing, advertising in residential areas, etc., But that does cause an issue Bein Adam L’chaveiroi.

    When one places a NO PARKING sign, or any sign implying “DO NOT PARK HERE” and they do not have a legal curb cut, they run into the issue mentioned above of Goizel ess Harabim.

    In addition, when one places these signs in the street, for example a city pole, a tree, etc., that is illegal. Then the person has two issues to contend with.

    #1650381

    leah1532
    Participant

    neville-chaimberlin: It is illegal for anyone to save space in the street without a permit. Construction crews can get a 1 year permit for a dumpster with regulation. Anything else would need an additional permit. Painting no parking signs in bold is just an intimidation tactic!

    #1650411

    apushatayid
    Participant

    It may be an intimidation tactic, but, it is VERY effective when those tasked with enforcing regulations look the other way, or worse, ignore those who bring the issue to them. Right or wrong, in the big city, everyone tries to gain every inch, bu hook or by crook.

    #1650881

    Joseph
    Participant

    That’s why we’re here talking about the crooks.

    #1651259

    Gadolhadorah
    Participant

    If you can save a seat in shul, makom kavuah, why not a parking space??i

    #1651305

    leah1532
    Participant

    Gadol Hador ah: It is a bit different with a shul. A shul is privately owned and the Rav of the shul is the one that appoints specific places to any choshova attendees. He has baalis over his property, unless there is a committee that is in charge they might be the ones assign the seating. There is an unrelated issue with places in shul worth mentioning, now that you brought it up. People spend money to purchases a seat in a shul for a year’s time. There are others that don’t daven in that shul for Yomim Noroim and don’t purchase a seat, assuming they will find an empty seat on when they attend on shabbos. Don’t they realize that they use a seat that has been purchased by someone else. Make sure that the person that this seat is assigned to is not coming to shul this shabbos or that he allows you to use his seat.

    Regarding the parking space, the streets in Brooklyn are public property and may be used at a first come first serve basis. These individuals do not own the spot that is located in front of their house because they bought their house! Everyone has equal use and rights to that spot.

    Creating an illegal curb cut or posting a sign to scare people away is wrong whichever way you look at it!!

    #1651350

    leah1532
    Participant

    I find it very interesting that a person I discussed this topic with, felt that it is only mentchlech that the spot be reserved for the person who lives there. (this person doesn’t have a car, therefore I imagine he doesn’t understand the issue of finding parking)
    I tried to explain it to him. clarifying that the spot is public property and doesn’t need to remain empty 24/7 so that one person can have a extra special convenience.
    How can I explain it better?

    #1651354

    Gadolhadorah
    Participant

    Leah: Thank you for the clear and 100 percent correct tutorial on “public” versus “private” space. I apologize if my attempt at sarcasm wasn’t clear. I was trying to make fun of those who claim “chazakah” on a public parking space but my attempt at humor clearly was too subtle. An even more selfish and sometimes bizarre practice I’ve encountered frequently in Boston and less so in NYC is the winter custom of placing lawn furniture, trash cans etc. to reserve “shoveled out” parking spaces after a snowstorm. In the latter case, the space may not even be in the front of the house of the individual claiming a reservation of a street parking space based on his/her prior efforts to dig it out.

    #1651385

    behyme
    Participant

    If all the yellow school buses will not park illegally on residential streets there will be enough parking available even with illegal curb cuts LETS GET THESE YELLOW SCHOOL BUSES AWAY FROM RESIDENTIAL STREETS !

    #1651396

    leah1532
    Participant

    Gadolhador ah: It is less likely to happen in NYC vs. Boston, but I wouldn’t be surprised if it happens more often in NYC by ratio, Snow fall to Space grabbers.
    What can we, law abiding citizens, do about this “chazakah” issue, regardless to where it may take place! We need to act like civilized people, not like old- time settlers or today’s mobsters. Referring to those who grab territory, claim ownership and then go on an all out to war with innocent trespassers.

    #1651416

    leah1532
    Participant

    behyme: That is a very good point to add to the curb cuts and illegal signs. That is an additional way of someone who is oiver on Goizel ess Harabim. These school buses and not allowed to park on the street. It is cheaper for them to get ticketed than to pay for a parking space in a garage. But they don’t realize that they are stealing from anyone who would want to use that spot. WE NEED TO GET THE WORD AROUND. I am sure they don’t want to to something that is “ossur”

    #1651422

    Gadolhadorah
    Participant

    Behyme: Agreed!! If we required all the parents whose kids ride the yellow school buses to put their yinglach in little baskets on the back of their bikes and peddle them to school, we would solve the school bus parking problem. Another strategy would be to repaint the yellow buses green to visually replace the “green space” lost when those ehrliche yidden in BP with the illegal curb cuts paved over their front lawns to create parking spaces in front of their non-existent garages.

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