Illegal Immigrants

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  • #590733

    mazca
    Member

    I know that many people in the states are very much against all the illegal immigrants. But can you tell me of anyone who doesn’t benefit from them, even indirectly? (restaurants, hotels, butchers, supermarkets, harvesting, farming, etc.)Can we even say that government officials don’t use them, senators, governors, members of congress, and for all we know the president?

    #667144

    Josh31
    Participant

    We have to force them to shape up or ship out.

    It is called immigration reform which was endorsed by the past president and present president and most of the cadidates that ran against them.

    Shape up means getting a Tax Identification Number and paying income taxes and showing responsibility for all cars they drive (liability insurance).

    #667145

    Getzel
    Participant

    Listen the many bad stories vhamaven yuvin make it impossible that it should go on like this!!

    #667146

    starwolf
    Member

    The US needs immigation. But illegal immigration is not needed. All countries need people who will work hard and be productive members of society, and follow the law. By coming to the US illegally, the illegal immigrants show that following the law is not their major concern.

    Once the illegals are in the US, they benefit from US medical care (some ERs in the southwestern US are at the point of collapse) education (registering their children in schools), etc–without paying their share of taxes.

    But the worst part is that the illegals are hired by places so that they do not have to pay social benefits. No social security, health insurance, etc. This creates a second-class system. One class gets all the benefits that society has decreed should be paid to people–and one class does not. This is immoral, and should be recognized as such. If we need to pay more for our lettuce–or more for our yard work, or more for our nannies, or more for our cleaning people–so that all of these workers can get the same living conditions as anyone else performing these jobs–I am personally willing to do so. Saving a few dollars is not worth establishing a two-class labor system. If we need the workers, open the borders to legal immigration. Illegal immigration is not the answer–and no country in the world can tolerate it.

    As an example, how does Mexico treat the people who try to immigrate illegally across her southern border?

    #667147

    skates
    Member

    They cant pay taxes if they barely get paid…

    #667149

    mazca
    Member

    Mexico is not a country that treats immigrants very nicely , and if they are illegal I guess they don’t either, a foreigner in this country is a foreigner for few generations, when I turned 18 I had to deny my parents place of birth, now it has changed a little, the problem with the United States they know they need the labor, they allow them to immigrate illegal and they know how many people or wetbacks come in. If United States is such a powerful country and allows them in , it is because they know the country cannot run without them. So do not fool yourself the fact that a place like that gives a lot of benefits it just makes people not work, and the people that do not get the full benefits take the low jobs. They do get some benefits but nothing compared to medicaid, housing, food stamps and the whole welfare system that has made the native americans lazy.

    #667150

    bein_hasdorim
    Participant

    I say lets give Michael Savage’s idea a try.

    He said have these illegal immigrants, build a nice big strong wall as a border,

    then put them on the other side of it.

    #667151

    starwolf
    Member

    Taxes on very low salaries are minimal. Still, as I posted, the big p[roblem is that illegals are employed precisely to reduce costs to the employers. If we do not think that those costs (social security, health care, etc) should be there, fine. then getr rid of them. But if we do think that they should be there, they should be there for everyone.

    #667152

    Poster
    Member

    U are paying hight taxes cuz these guys are using all our resources…food stamps, emergency room etc. Now the crazy part is that the money we pay a lot of these guys are not ciculating in the USA. Most cleaning ladis are busy sending the money off to Poland. I had a halper from The Republic of Trinidad, she made a lot of money. She asked me to pay up before the end of the month cuz her son had a way to send it to Trinidad, to her family there. My sister in law has a Philipino working for her, she is here while her children and husband are there. She plans to be here for 2 more years, she spends a minimum and she is planning to go back with the money.

    For those illeagal imm that are staying and making money, they are sending their children to collage, so while they are cleaning you floors, their children wont be.

    The benifit of these imm is only for the next 20 years, the children of your claning lady might end up being your daughter’s opthamologist!

    #667154

    shaatra
    Member

    To tell you the truth, we NEED them

    #667155

    shaatra- we dont need them at all. If they werent here then many people would be willing to do their job. We are in a financial meltdown where unemployment is skyrocketing (no thanks to the “stimulus bill”)- what is better, to have no job or a low-paying job? There are many people I know who would be willing to work in grocery stores or pizza places ect but they are not hiring because there is all this cheap labor!

    I am not anti-immigration, just anti-illegal immigration. They broke the law coming here and they shouldnt be allowed to stay! I am a believer in the saying “high walls with wide doors”. If there wasnt so much illegal immigration, they would be able to allow more legal people in! I wouldnt mind them so much if they would become AMERICAN. Speak English, be proud to be Americans, follow the laws and DONT EXPECT THE GOVT TO CATER TO YOU! My great grandparents came here, learned English and went to school. One of my grandparents came here, learned English and went to college. Stop wanting the govt to put things in Spanish! English is our language and learn it for goodness sakes!

    #667156

    mybat
    Member

    The people aren’t willing to do such low paying jobs simply because they receive more benefits without working. The illegals only receive a limited amount of benefits so they are forced to work.

    #667157

    tamazaball
    Member

    Yeah i want to see all of you cleaning your own floors , doing your own chores , without the help of these people dont kid yourselfes of coarse you need them illegal or not!

    #667158

    mazca
    Member

    Here we are talking about illegal immegrants no languague but I guess it goes hand in hand, but like I said before if the United States didn’t want them they wouldn’t have them. Do not kid yourself there is illegal immegrants because the gobernment allows it. You do not need a wall to see all the illegal in the pizza stores or driving the subway. It is the choise of the US to keep them there and give them some benefits and if people need the jobs so badly why don’t they take the same pay as the illegals.

    #667159

    Just-a-guy
    Member

    hss- I’m very disturbed by your post where you say you wouldn’t mind them so much if they would become American. I guess you think that’s ok for you to say, but what if wasps felt the same way about Jews- I wouldn’t mind them so much if they would become American- you know, go to public schools, stop living amongst themselves, dressing differently, eating different foods, and why do they have to leave work early on friday and take all of these days off in the fall? Don’t they know they’re in America now?

    We were once strangers in the land of Egypt. In America too, for that matter.

    #667160

    smartcookie
    Member

    I dotn care if they’re in this country, but they cannot take foodstamps and other benefits when I’m paying a fortune for hardearned taxes. That’s what makes me mad.

    #667161

    shaatra
    Member

    Havesomeseichel: maybe YOU don’t need them but a lot of people I know do!! I have one living in my house and let me tell u, we NEED her!

    #667162

    A600KiloBear
    Participant

    BS”D

    What really is needed is a guest worker program.

    Unskilled Americans do better on welfare than as menial workers.

    When I lived in the US I would have loved to have been able to hire a cleaning lady off the welfare rolls, and it would be a great idea to have workfare programs which force women to work as domestics (that would also put a very fast end to welfare abuse).

    Besides everything else workfare domestics would have to be bonded by the Federal welfare program, so that any theft or damage would result in felony charges for the worker and a quick reimbursement for the victim. That will happen when esroigim grow in Siberia.

    So, a program that would allow foreign workers to do menial jobs with full employee protection at minimum wage or better for a period of five years, perhaps renewable to 10, as well as allow for seasonal workers to stay in the US for the seasons during which they are employed, would be a solution. They would know they cannot stay and would know to send remittances back home to support relatives and be able to improve their lives when they return home (as many now do).

    As for domestics, I think the day is not too far off when robots will be able to do a lot of cleaning around the house. Isn’t there already a robotic vacuum? If there is, the leap to a floor washing machine, oven scrubber etc is not a great one.

    An even better idea is to send 10 welfarians to Mexico or Guatemala in exchange for every hard working illegal who comes to the US to work. Better yet, send them all 100 senators in exchange for 10 good cleaning ladies!

    #667163

    ronrsr
    Member

    600, there are already robotic floor scrubbers, gutter cleaners and lawnmowers available. Tighten the seatbelt on your recliner, because this is only the beginning. Check out iRobot.com for a view of some of the home robots available.

    #667164

    ronrsr
    Member

    we may still need help from illegal immigrants. Who will turn on and recharge the machines that Americans are unwilling to turn on and recharge?

    Didn’t the pharoahs set the precedent by allowing the undocumented Joseph into their country, and alternately putting him to work, and in prison, and letting him rule the country? And didn’t his father Jacob’s whole family follow? A big family: probably a dozen or more kids, and a few wives, and their children? Probably lived dozens of people to the tent. but they did the work (brickmaking and hauling) that no respectable Egyptian would do.

    As Tom Lehrer wrote 50 years ago:

    Even in Egypt, the Pharoahs

    Had to import Hebrew braceros.

    #667165

    mybat
    Member

    600kilo, we need cleaning ladies in mexico too!! Don’t take them away from us!;)

    #667166

    A600KiloBear
    Participant

    BS”D

    MyBat, you can have US welfarians, not that Mexico will ever reduce its population to the point that there will not be desperately poor women willing to do menial work.

    I’m in Ukraine and not taking anything from anyone,. Nothing pleases me more than seeing the descendants of our soinim, the pogromschiki and later the camp guards and collaborators, scrubbing our floors in our homes, businesses and, most of all in out shuls and schools that succeeded the ones their ancestors burned. And they are happy to work for us because we pay well and treat them far better than their own drunken husbands do!

    #667167

    mybat
    Member

    Actually the cleaning ladies in mexico are pretty lazy, when I see how they work so hard in the US it really amazes me.

    #667168

    tamazaball
    Member

    Mybat the cleaning ladys in the us are not all good in miami they just get in late leave early and act stupid and charge a fortune in mexico there really cheaper! A relative of mine in lakewood told me the same thing!

    #667169

    pookie
    Member

    they might be great workers and all but the fact is there are millions of AMERICANS unemployed who would love to take those jobs too

    #667170

    mazal77
    Participant

    I think now, that with so many American people being unemployed and desperately looking for work, they would go for those jobs, they had once thought were beneath them. Unemployment benefits only last so much. I think Americans will only get angrier at the illegals, because they can’t get those jobs that the illegals are doing, because, they work for less and don’t get any benefits.

    #667171

    tamazaball
    Member

    pookie-

    if those unemployed americans really wanted those jobs they would get them, they just get greedy and charge more ,or are disrespectfull and lazy,etc .

    when i arrive to a mexican airport there are tons of mexicans offering me help with my luggage,and carrying my stuff, i dont even lift a thing but when i arrive to the us airport no one helps me and im dragging a heavy suitcase all alone. its all part of nature the mexicans are better helping hands than the americans thats why the illegal immigrants get all the jobs there easier to work with,they have better attitudes and work harder!

    #667172

    shaatra
    Member

    Tamazaball: when your cleaning lady is lazy, acting stupid, coming late and leaving early its called GET RID OF HER!!!! In my house we don’t stand for that my parents will tell them u don’t wanna work? Then leave…you gotts show them whose boss.

    #667173

    mazca
    Member

    Yes if you have a stupid cleaning lady the best thing is to get rid of her, but when you pay $300 dollars a month you keep quiet and hope for the best.

    #667174

    A600KiloBear
    Participant

    BS”D

    Most cleaning ladies anywhere are transient. They are from the lowest segments of society and don’t have much of a work ethic. A very few do better themselves, but most go from employer to employer.

    #667175

    Bemused
    Participant

    $300 a month? That’s an awful lot of cleaning help.

    #667176

    mybat
    Member

    Yes, you hope for the best. Even if they start to eat all your food?

    #667177

    just a guy- there is a real difference. Jews came to the country to seek refuge from other countries and did it legally. We came and learned English (otherwise the YWN would be in German, Russian, Polish or Yiddish for most of us) and were willing to abide by the rules of teh country. I am not saying that anyone should dress in any other way or lose their cuture. We did not tell the country to “give us bilingual teachers for elementary school” but they do. I am not anti-immigrant because unless you had ancestors who were here in 1776 when the country was founded, you too were an “immigrant to America”. They should become American citizens and pay taxes. Why should they be on welfare? On medicare? medicaid? On the “socialized healthcare”

    You do not need them- you are just used to them. With them you are allowed to live a higher standard of living. You have an easier life. But if you knew that you were taking the job of a Jew, would you feel the same way? If tomorrow C”V the paying person in your house lost their job, (which more and more people are facing) you would be able to live without them. It would be harder, yes, but possible.

    Have you been in the emergency room any time recently? Wonder if ICE came in, how many would leave?

    #667178

    shaatra
    Member

    Mazca: $300 a month?? WHERE?? We pay $350 a WEEK because she’s new!!! Our old one we had for 2 years she got $420 a week!! My cousin has had hers for over 10 years and pays $500 a week!! $300 a month is balash!!

    #667179

    Just-a-guy
    Member

    We came and learned English (otherwise the YWN would be in German, Russian, Polish or Yiddish for most of us)

    I think the posts on this website suggest that the learning of english was pretty minimal.

    #667181

    mazca
    Member

    Minimal or not we all comunicate in English wether we like it or not.

    $300 dollars a month is in Mexico but one maid is never enough since they do not work properly so take your pick hire few maids that eat your house in an out or pay $400 a week in Brooklyn that work really hard. That is the reason they leave Mexico because over there they get paid much more no because the gobernment help. If you legalize all the illegal immegrants in U.S. they would stop working and go into welfare so you would be loosing a cheap man power.

    EDITED

    #667182

    Bemused: “$300 a month? That’s an awful lot of cleaning help.”

    shaatra: “Mazca: $300 a month?? WHERE?? We pay $350 a WEEK because she’s new!!! Our old one we had for 2 years she got $420 a week!! My cousin has had hers for over 10 years and pays $500 a week!! $300 a month is balash!!”

    Oh, the sweet irony of these two comments!

    #667183

    Anonymous

    To havesomeseichel: Have some facts: When most Jews came to the US, i.e., before 1927, none of them were illegal immigrants because there were no immigration laws. Immigration laws were enacted in 1926 to keep out Jews, Italians and other “undesireables.” (When Jews tried to flee the Holocaust, US immigration laws forced many Jews to remain in Europe, and they were lost in the Holocaust.)

    Independent academic studies have made it clear that immigrants – legal or not – are a net benefit to the US economy, net of all the benefits they supposedly collect, and net of all the taxes they allegedly do not pay. Unless you are an unskilled or low-skilled worker, you are not likely to be harmed by illegal immigrants competing for your job.

    And, yes, I have been to medical emergency rooms recently. I doubt that very many of the personnel there are illegal immigrants – the ER personnel are highly skilled and could not get that kind of training if they were illegal immigrants. And, besides, even if they are illegal, when I go to an emergency room, I want help from anyone willing and able to give it. In all my visits to an emergency room, I cannot recall a patient asking a doctor or nurse, “May I see your Green Card before you treat me.”

    #667184

    tamazaball
    Member

    Shaatra . Now thats why theres illegal immigrants!! They leave mexico for MORE money!!there very poor!! And not everyone pays 3oo dlls a month its really more! And most people have two or three maids and a day worker, so it all adds up!

    #667185

    A600KiloBear
    Participant

    Have you been in the emergency room any time recently? Wonder if ICE came in, how many would leave?

    BS”D

    There are some emergency rooms in the US, sadly including one which many frum people rely upon, which appear as if they would be devoid of doctors if ICE came in! Why? Because US doctors don’t want to work in emergency rooms, so visas are granted to foreign doctors to fill these positions. Same needs to be done for domestics, but that is sad because the US has so many third generation welfarians who should be doing domestic work.

    As for the doctors in that ER, I don’t think the management of the new Agri-Star meat packing plant in Postville would hire them as butchers regardless of their visas so they HAD to get doctor visas!

    Salaries for cleaning ladies: Shaatra, you are in the US and Mazca is in Mexico. I think here in Ukraine a full time domestic a/k/a chadame would get $300-$400 a month.

    #667186

    starwolf
    Member

    The emergency rooms and other medical specialties use plenty of immigrants, who go through mountains of paperwork to come in.I fail to see how an illegal could possible get a licese to practice medicine in a major hospital.

    I would imagine that the situation is similar with nurses, although the US is facing a crucial shortage of nurses in many places. Hospital nursing is bone-breaking work, with long hours, huge responsibilities, and in many cases, low pay.

    I would hope that the paperwork requirements for nurses is equivalent (more or less) to that of doctors–but I am not sure. Certainly in the better and more responsible hospitals it is.

    #667187

    anon for this
    Participant

    A600KiloBear, foreign medical grads working in US hospitals have H1B or J1 visas, so they’re not concerned about ICE.

    #667188

    Bemused
    Participant

    “Oh, the sweet irony of these two comments!”

    I thought it was pretty funny too. Different strokes for different folks, I guess.

    #667189

    anon for this
    Participant

    starwolf, exactly. Hospitals risk losing federal funding if they employ illegals as attending physicians or in their training programs.

    #667190

    mybat
    Member

    Its usually the low paid people that go to the US(look at the difference in pay), doctors don’t need to go work illegally.

    #667191

    shaatra
    Member

    Mezonos maven: Lol!

    Kilobear: yeah I guess….

    My mom just told me today that her aund pays over $600 a week for hers!! THAT’S nuts! Never heard of that much!

    #667192

    haifagirl
    Participant

    Just a word about nurses, and I’m talking about legal ones.

    At one time I had thought about becoming a nurse. Since I was missing one prerequisite by the application deadline, I wasn’t accepted into the program and I didn’t want to wait another year.

    However, this was one of the top nursing programs in the area. They required a composite percentile score of 60 on the NLN test and an English score of 50. They had just raised the requirement from 50/40. The prequisite I was missing was chemistry. I missed 1/2 the questions on the chemistry section. I got a 99 composite.

    How many questions can you miss before getting a 50? And these are the people they would be training as nurses.

    Scary?

    #667193

    A600KiloBear
    Participant

    BS”D

    Read my post carefully. …”APPEAR…” The doctors clearly are legal but brought in for the same reason illegals come in – to do jobs Americans consider beneath them.

    #667195

    I didn’t notice anyone asking for your permission Josh.

    #667196

    starwolf
    Member

    JOsh31,

    many of who live in overseas also pay US taxes.

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