illegal weatlth

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    I would like to know what coffee room said about this. Me an my husband are both working full time. My husband sometimes comes home late . My chidlren always knew that thier father and mother are working hard and honestly. After paying the bills , tuition and mortgage ( ni i do not live in a huge three floor house) There is not much left. We dont go away in the summer since then we wont be bale to pay tuition. Today i was in the Kollel store and I saw a woman who i know well . She had a wagon full of expensive groceries. At teh end of the ring up she paid with a benefit card. How is it that me , a middle class honest peron cannot any extras and the scammers get it all easy. Isnt this geniva . I tell my kids to be proud that we are honest and doing the right thing but sometimes it hurts to see poeple act like this. How is it right to file as divorced when your really not? Please tell me if you are in the same situation as me and how you comfort yoursself. I read the Garden of EMunah by rabbi Arush and it really helped me remember that parnassah is all from hashem. ONly respond if you are a mature adult in the same situation. thank you . Please no derogotary words etc.


    I work for an agency that helps people get goverment services, and could not agree with you more!


    Daniel. Everyone has their nisayonos, not everyone passes them all the time.

    Moving. The agency you work for, is it aiding and abetting those who do not deserve benefits get them anyway?


    This is an OLD question.

    –Those that are wealthy obviously have no financial worries (though they may have other nisyonos).

    –Those that are in extremely dire financial straights (or who pretend to be) get all types of government assistance.

    –Those of us who are in the middle, and live a frum life style, with all the yeshiva tuitions, Shabbas expenses, Yom Tov expenses (especially Pesach) – not to mention the year round greatly higher prices of most kosher (as opposed to traif) foods, etc., etc., etc. are in a VERY tough financial crisis because by secular government standards we make too much to merit assistance, and the government does not understand or care about the great expense of living even a modest frum lifestyle. The reality is that even making what, by goyish standards, would be considered a very decent living, as frum Jews, with all the additional expenses we have, many of us are living at, or even below, the poverty line, but do not qualify for any help.

    I do not know the financial circumstances of this woman you saw in the store, and you probably don’t (REALLY) either. We should not judge her.

    All I can suggest to you is to do a very careful analysis of your spending and see if there are any areas where you can cut back. A few examples that may or may not apply for you… Maybe you can find cheaper insurance for your home and/or car. Maybe you can buy store brands of food and paper products instead of the name brands. Maybe you can find a better deal for your phone and internet service.

    Aside from this analysis, as Rav Arush says, do your Hisbodedus. Talk to HaSh-m specifically about the financial nisayon you are going through. Ask Him for help. Tell Him that if this struggle is what He wants you to be going through for your benefit, you are mekabel it, but that perhaps if it was not so severe you could have more yishuv ha’da’as and more time to spend with your children and on other Torah oriented activites. Tell Him you’d like help because your children see your financial struggles and you do not want your children to see a Torah life as a burden.

    I am not trying to be simplistic. Believe me, I empathize and sympathize with your situation. Be strong, don’t judge your situation by that of other people, keep telling yourself that HaSh-m is ONLY a mayteev, and GAM ZU L’TOVA, GAM ZU L’TOVA, GAM ZU L’TOVA. When HaSh-m sees that you really believe that, He will (so to speak) say “you think THIS is tov?! I’LL SHOW YOU WHAT TOV IS!” and then, be”H, your tefilos will be answered.



    Daniel: Maybe you don’t know the woman with the benefits card as well as you think. Or maybe you should go to the agency that employs movingmountains and apply for a benefits card. And maybe you should refresh you recollection of 10th Commandment. Or maybe, c”v, the woman with the benefits card is a liar and a thief.


    what gives you the right to look into her shopping cart?


    Who said she is getting her benifets illeagely?


    AOM, you put a dash in the middle of Hashem? I have never seen that before. Why?


    no one knows the details of someone elses business. sometimes in laws or parents pay for their children and grand children to go away for the summer. a person may legitimately qualify for benefits and not want the world to know.


    One possible dan lekaf zechus: In the novel Chocolate Liquor the main character works in a “supersave” type of grocery. At the end, her newly married daughter and sil come up to her checkout with a cart full of groceries way beyond their budget. “Did you win the lottery?” No, together with five other couples, they are making sheva brachos for a friend and volunteered to do the shopping with the pooled funds.

    Granted, life is not a novel. It may be farfetched,but perhaps your neighbor is doing something similar and will be reimbursed or was given the money upfront and since it’s groceries, used her card? (Whether she has to pay in cash in that case, i don’t know.)

    Baruch Bohm

    you guys are doing irreparable harm to the english language. Make it stop!!!


    While I would not judge any particular individual, I recently served on a federal grand jury and one of the indictments we handed down was on a woman who was charged with hiding assets when applying for government benefits. Lying on an application for government benefits is a felony and can get you some good learning time in the Otisville kollel.


    The sad part of it is that i really know the woman . I would never judge her if i didnt. Thats what hurt me . I hate running around to find the cheaoest in everything. ps- I sasked for chizuk not negative comments


    If you don’t want negative comments, you shouldn’t have been negative about this lady.


    You have to do what is right.

    What everyone else does is their own problem.

    Hashem knows what is Yashrus, and what is not, and He keeps a cheshbon.

    And everyone gets judged by the Judge.


    keep your eyes on your own cart what other people buy should not concern you


    like i said , I did not purposely look into her cart ! we were chatting when she put her stuff on the conveyor belt before my stuff were bagged. This is typical of scuh big store especially before shabbos. I am just asking if if their are other people in my situationand what they do about it and how they have chizuk in tough days like i am having


    Daniel- you’re so right. I’m totally in your shoes.

    It’s very hurtful when I see people on FS & Medicaid,because they hide assets, when I’m paying sky rocketing taxes & working hard.

    There isn’t much you can do bout it, & I don’t think it’s the smartest idea to talk about it here on some public forum.


    i was on a plane from zurich to tel aviv…zero legroom and the woman in front of me leaned her seat ALLLLL the way back. I tapped her and said excuse me I am squished…to which she responded ‘well i havta sleep’

    i read garden of emunah about a year and a half ago and after reading it….the little things in life dont bother me, because i know everything is from hashem, for our best, and for a specific purpose…so missing the train, getting a B or falling on your face….it all happens for a reason and when u have emunah the world is so much brighter and you dont look at others because you know what you have is what hashem set out for you!! its an amazing feeling bh!!

    i wish they would teach emunah in school…..


    What does WEATLTH mean??? Did you mean wheatless?!!!


    Daniel, firstly let me say that the tide has turned for many people in this terrible economy. Even those who were on top a year or two ago, are having difficulties meeting their obligations. So that might explain this dilemma for you.

    Taking this a step further, let me just remind you that nuch 120, everyone has to give their own din v’chesbon before their maker. All the “illegal” and inappropriate stuff are clearly written on their page and it all has to be accounted for. Please don’t waste your time trying to figure it out, compare your values to theirs, or keep score. Hashem is in charge and believe me, everyone will get what they deserve in the end.


    Its even more hurtful when some people in my neighberhood opened up shop and help you scam. They charge a fee and fill out the papers dishonestly for you. Thank you to all the mature adults who are in my situation and provided a positive post. May we all be happy , healthy and wealthy in the right way.


    Daniel, We are also in your shoes. Whatever all these other people say it is incredibly frustrating to be face this situation again and again. I am sure that there are many more people like us out there but i rarely bump into them. To Goq who keeps saying not to look, it is very hard when everying is out in the open. I know people who live on programs and they tell me when they are going on vacations because they need me to do favors for them while they are gone. one such person listed for me her menu of suppers, foods like chicken cutlets and steak are on their normal menu and their family is not small. This person calls herself poor but if you saw her house, two cars and met them in Israel it is hard to think of them as such. Please tell me who really doesn’t have, says the person who works to pay bills and worries all the time about covering expenses.

    another issue you are not mentioning is the sense of entitlement that the children inherit. They expect that things will just be handed to them. This is one of my soapboxes. I could go on and on! I need to meet more people like Daniel so I don’t feel like a fool.


    Doing the right thing is its own reward. Isn’t having self respect better than having chicken cutlets and a steak?


    its very hard not to look? its also very hard not to speak loshon hara but we have to try


    daniel u r a girl????

    what has this world come to??????


    YOGI- Please don’t bring in having many children here. It’s not your business. Let everyone have the amount of children they wish, but they should do everything legally.

    It’s really hard for us “middle class” people who cannot get these govt programs.

    However, like I said before, I think it’s totally senseless to talk about this online, since you can get so many people into trouble.


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