November 21, 2019 12:35 pm at 12:35 pm #1802941
I want to give people a heads up before applying to a girls’ camp. You may not realize this, but I am aware of a camp that has over 70 girls in 3 bunks up until 9th grade. For the 10th graders they have a TC program. For this program they only keep 50 of the girls. Since this a standalone program they are concerned that more than 50 girls would necessitate an extra bus amongst other monetary considerations. As a result, after attending the camp for several years straight 35% of the campers are no longer wanted and become ‘disposable’. Over 20 girls are told not to come back. Please consider carefully before enrolling your daughter.November 21, 2019 3:05 pm at 3:05 pm #1803052
pro geshmake yiddenParticipant
Thank you so so so so muchNovember 21, 2019 3:37 pm at 3:37 pm #1803063
Its true my niece (from Lakwood) was rejected the parents and she feel so let down. When you have a camp it means you have an achraius to the children. It cant be all about money.November 21, 2019 3:37 pm at 3:37 pm #1803064
your very welcome and happy hunting!November 21, 2019 3:41 pm at 3:41 pm #1803067
After several years in camp, these girls are almost young women and should be kept home in the summer, focusing all their energy learning varbeshe skills and on finding a choson so they don’t become victims of the shidduch crisis.
On a serious note, if its a good camp, let them enroll for a few years and then move on to some other summer activities.November 21, 2019 3:49 pm at 3:49 pm #1803074
what should they do? they are only 16 years old and the summer is very long, camp only accounts for one half of the summer. In any case shouldn’t they be allowed to come back? Is it ok to turn you backs on parents that paid thousands in tuition throughout the years? How about the the pain of rejection inflicted on innocent children? They are your very own campers!November 21, 2019 4:14 pm at 4:14 pm #1803076
What’s TC?November 21, 2019 4:15 pm at 4:15 pm #1803086
A camp with 70 girls up to ninth grade. So I assume it’s 7, 8 and 9th. Now, 70 girls divided by three would make it to 23 and a third girls per grade. Pretty small for a camp, you;d say.
Anyways, if it’s a camp that has only 50 in the TC, its quite small, and it would be unrealistic to DEMAND someone be admitted without having to foot the bill this extra admission necessitated. Think buses, outings, food, bedding, indeed – room and board. What if an extra bunk has to be built just for your daughter? They MUST except anyone at their expense. Think about it. And it’s a camp not a school, which while some consider it a necessity, it’s technically a luxury.
I happen to be closely involved in a camp (slightly bigger), so I know what goes on (no, I’m not the Boss…yet!). And I think, as a parent, the important thing to know about a camp is its clientele – what are the girls like. And is the camp selective, do they research the girls they admit. What are the camp policies? These (the girls) are the people who are going to greatly affect and shape your daughters’ future. There are many camps out there each offering a unique something. Each with it’s own balance of Ruchnius and Gashmius. Remember – one summer can uplift like nothing during the year can. And, regretfully too, the same the other way…
This should be the main point.November 21, 2019 4:38 pm at 4:38 pm #1803103
TC is Teen camp.
Little Froggie “it would be unrealistic to DEMAND….” every other camp foots the bill except this one. They also have to choice to only take 50 girls in not 70 in order to dump 22 of them. Either way I dont think its smart to send to such a camp let me quote ‘pro geshmake yidden’… “Thank you so so so so much” and i agreeNovember 21, 2019 4:39 pm at 4:39 pm #1803106
Little Froggy I think you should read the opening post again. You misunderstood it.November 21, 2019 6:27 pm at 6:27 pm #1803118
Boruch- what do you mean “It cant be all about money.” ? Do you really think anyone opens a girls camp with the intention of giving young women a summer experience that they can not receive anywhere else? Of course the focus is on making money. Its a business. Saying otherwise would be like trying to pretend girls seminaries in Israel open with the primary objective of giving an educational experience.
These are two areas where it seems clear “it’s all about the benjamins baby”.November 21, 2019 7:36 pm at 7:36 pm #1803194
Of course the focus is on making money. Its a business.
CTRebbe: Do you also view Yeshivas as primarily businesses in it for the buck?November 22, 2019 10:59 am at 10:59 am #1803359
CTRebbe : Boruch- what do you mean “It cant be all about money.” ? … Its a business.
CTrebbe that is an excellent question but here are some points to consider:
A person opening a camp with the sole intention of making money is not something that I am against on the contrary I wish him success and he should enjoy the money …. However even a business needs to adhere to certain ethics and maintain proper morals.
Let’s use a hospital as an example, it’s a business and its there for the money however imagine a scenario where the hospital had the option to give a treatment which would heal the patient but it is not so profitable and a second course of treatment which would not be too effective but would make them a lot more money, can they refuse the better treatment to the patient? after all its a business no? well of course not, that would be scandalous. A hospital makes money, but they are responsible to have their patent’s best interest in mind.
Now let’s look at a camp. Let’s say they are full there are no open slots then a rich person offers the camp to pay triple tuition if they would take his child, can the camp go ahead and kick out one of there campers in order to cash in on the deal? After all it’s a business no? the answer is that he can technically, but then he is an animal he is no longer a respectable human being, where is you loyalty and הכרת הטוב to your customer that you profited from up until now? How about the child? You are profiting on the back of an innocent child. It’s vile.
Here too this camp turns there back on loyal customers who paid them thousands and throws them under the bus. And of course, this is done at the expense of inflicting pain on innocent girls, their very own campers no less! All other camps absorb these losses, but they refuse to.November 22, 2019 1:01 pm at 1:01 pm #1803407
It all depends how big this camp is. If it’s a small camp, as the OP stated, then NO, you can’t expect a camp like that to absorb the cost.
There are other GREAT camps out there. A lot of them have the TCs way more than the rest.November 23, 2019 10:09 pm at 10:09 pm #1803558
Every camp is like this. They have many campers and few staff positions. So this camp has this problem a little earlier. It’s not that hard to find another camp for TC age.November 24, 2019 9:38 am at 9:38 am #1803641
Little Froggy wrote “It all depends how big this camp is. If it’s a small camp, as the OP stated, then NO, you can’t expect a camp like that to absorb the cost”
Little Froggy I wrote the opening post and it’s being misunderstood, no it is NOT a small camp OP says ” has over 70 girls in 3 bunks up until 9th grade” what that means is that for every grade, 7th,8th and 9th grade there are 3 bunks EACH in other words over 70 campers for each grade level. When the 70+ 9th graders want to come back after 10th grade they kick out over 20 of them.
Now you are someone who actually works for a camp so your perspective would lean towards defending the camp and still you are saying that only a small camp would be justified in doing this…which this camp is not it is a large camp. Hope that helps clarify things!November 24, 2019 12:21 pm at 12:21 pm #1803658
They should stay home and do chessed.
Do old people and young mothers who need assistance have to suffer over the long summer just so that the teenagers can have fun? Is this what it’s all about?November 24, 2019 3:52 pm at 3:52 pm #1803769
BTW, are the economic issues and selection criteria materially different for BOYS” Camps?? If so, why?
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