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    Of A Sefer.

    To learn.


    With a sem teacher.

    I’m seriously out of ideas.

    I learned a bunch of the ones she suggested (Michtav MeEliyahu, Sichos Mussar, Mesilas Yesharim) back in high school and I’m not sure it’s the kind of thing I’d really want to learn now.

    I don’t liek fluff- I like to get down to the issues in an intellectual. way.

    I’m curious (and desperate) to know what kinds of ideas you guys might have.

    Thanks loads!

    ☕ DaasYochid ☕



    maybe emnah ubitchon by chazon ish?

    🍫Syag Lchochma

    I love Rabbi Tatz books and tapes. Really intense. Worldmask was major.



    Patur Aval Assur

    Shemoneh Perakim


    Seforim by Rav Shimshon Pincus ztz”l of Ofakim.

    Rav Chaim Freedlander’s Sifsei Chaim. But that might be similar to category of ones like Sichos Mussar, which you’re not sure is the kind of thing you’d want right now.

    I also enjoyed Rabbi Tatz’s.


    If you would be a man I would suggest viyoel moishe

    Letakein Girl

    My sister learnt Gateways to Happiness, by Zelig Pliskin, with her madricha in sem.

    (At least I think it’s called that…)


    My daughter was just telling me something really original sounding by the Ramchal that they’re learning this year (in Israeli seminar). She says they learn it in all the (Israeli) sems, but I’d never heard of it till now.

    The sefer is called: “La’yesharim tehilla”

    She was telling me all about it, & it definitely was different than the standard style. I’ve not yet had a chance to see it. (She herself hasn’t yet bought one).

    I don’t know what kind of thing you’re looking for.

    By the way, as a ‘lurker’ for a good while, I enjoyed many of your posts writersoul.

    Gutt voch.

    Patur Aval Assur

    Also, I think it would depend on how long and how often these learning sessions will be. For example if it’s only a half hour once a week, you wouldn’t want to do something where in the allotted time you barely get anywhere and by the time the next session comes around you have to review what you did the previous session, and you never really get anywhere. In such a situation you would want something that is self-contained where you can do one piece each time like the Pele Yoetz (which you could actually probably do five pieces each time, but I think that the Pele Yoetz is not at all what you’re looking for). But if the sessions are every day or they are significantly long then you wouldn’t really have any limitations in this particular area.

    Do you want something more philosophical, such as Emunah V’deios, Moreh Nevuchim, Chovos Halevavos, etc.? Do you want something from the Rishonim, or from a more recent thinker? Do you want Mussar? Hashkafa? Machshava? Halacha? Lomdus?


    Rav Hirsh on Chumash

    bp yidd

    Gite voch everyone. I’m new any tips or advice on how to post etc?

    ☕️coffee addict


    rabbi pam wrote a mussar sefer called atarah l’melech

    additionally there is hamaspik l’ovdei Hashem (not from r pam, from r avraham ben harambam)


    First of all, sorry about the typos in the first post. I was typing in a bit of a hurry.

    Second of all, thanks so much, SpiceofLife :).


    Thanks so much for all of your advice! So as PAA pointed out (something I hadn’t really thought about) the timing of the session (25 minutes a week) is really not so conducive to a really in-depth study of anything, unfortunately (I’d asked if I could learn Navi but it’s apparently a bit beyond the scope of this type of chavrusa- I now have a Navi chavrusa set up with my friend and I’m also going to try to get one with another teacher). So a lot of my friends are doing mussar seforim, but I tend to find that a bit fluffy and not my style sometimes (maybe I’m seeing R Chaim Brisker’s point :)). TheTroll’s suggestion is something I’d thought of though the 25-minute time limit does sort of make that hard, but one thing I was thinking of was 19 Letters- but then I suggested it to a friend who decided to use it for HER chavrusa so now it’s sort of weird. Is that sefer recommended for a chavrusa? I thought maybe of Chorev but it’s massive.

    To give an idea of what I enjoy, I’m doing another chavrusa in Pirkei Avos with Bartenura. Actually, in that case, Shmoneh Perakim may be interesting- will look into.

    I have until next Sunday, and am still very very open to suggestions. Just more about me (beyond what people know from my posting style and other stuff from this particular thread)- I’m not sure whether to stick with my comfort zone of Tanach, meforshim, etc or to move into more hashkafa/mussar-based classes even though I’ve been burned in the past from teachers who could very easily have conflated the contents of the seforim with their own personal hashkafos. It just happens to be that I haven’t really enjoyed in the past, but maybe there’s some way for me to get over myself. I also don’t happen to be the kind of person who ust wants to sit there and take things- I like to be an active thinker and participant, which has made some mussar seforim sit wrong with me. I’m not sure whether a) to therefore stick with things I know I’ll enjoy b)to get over myself or c) to try to find a hashkafa/mussar sefer that has a different style that might suit me better.

    By the way, if I didn’t mention the sefer that you suggested in this post, it’s not because I’ve neessarily discounted it- I’m making a list that I’m going to be checking out over the week :).

    Thanks so much, everybody!

    lamud vov tzadik

    Rashi, never found something better.


    Why would it be a problem to learn 19 Letters just because your friend is learning it? It could be even better. You can discuss it with her and get more out if it.

    Patur Aval Assur

    Interesting. I was thinking of recommending Chorev. I don’t think its massiveness will be a problem, because each mitzvah is an individual self contained piece which has nothing to do with any of the others. Not only that, you don’t have to follow any order; you can pick whichever ones interest you the most. And I think 25 minutes is enough time to get through one of them – some of the shorter ones might even allow for multiple pieces per session. Also, if your considering something like Chorev, you can also consider something like Sefer Hachinuch or even the Rambam’s Sefer Hamitzvos, but I think Chorev would be the best of those for the intellectual stimulation you are looking for.

    If you are considering Shemoneh Perakim, I would point out that it is not particularly long, so depending on your pace, you might well finish it in a couple of months, which if you are planning to have this chavrusa for the duration of the year would cause you to have to come up up with another idea in the middle of the year. Then again, if you do choose Shemoneh Perakim, and you are also doing Pirkei Avos with the Bartenura, if you finish Shemoneh Perakim worst comes to worst you can just segue into Pirkei Avos with the Rambam’s commentary. (Though I don’t know if you would want to be concurrently learning two different parts of Pirkei Avos, with different commentaries.)

    (I was also going to suggest something in Tanach, but I assumed you wouldn’t want that. Bad assumption. I would have suggested something like Iyov which can be very intellectual especially in the discussion of why good things happen to bad people. But something like that probably wouldn’t work so well in a 25 minutes a week setup and it sounds like Navi was nixed anyway {although technically it’s not Navi}.)

    Regarding mussar seforim, there is a broad spectrum. For example, something like Orchos Tzadikim, you would probably consider “fluffy”, Mesilas Yesharim (which you have already learned) and Ohr Yisrael probably less so, and something like Chovos Halevavos can be pretty intellectual, perhaps even bordering on philosophical.

    Keep in mind ??? ??? ???? ???? ??? ??? ???? ???.


    ivory: No real reason, just some very slight inner politics :). Really not a big deal. Was just wondering if anyone had any insights about it, if they thought I’d like it, etc because I don’t know much about it.

    PAA: Chovos Halevavos I was actually considering for a different chavrusa and I decided on something else instead… maybe I’ll revisit it. Interesting.

    I’ll look into Chorev- I just remembered seeing it on the shelf and being all uighwisarogh;oaerhg wow.

    Thanks again!

    Patur Aval Assur

    Wow, you have a lot of chavrusas. If you are going to do Chovos Halevavos with one chavrusa and Chorev with another chavrusa, and one is a teacher and the other is a fellow student, I would recommend doing Chovos Halevavos with the teacher. Although it seems from what you wrote that you already are doing something else with the other chavrusa and Chorev and Chovos Halevavos would be vying for the chavrusa with this teacher. But to reiterate about Chorev, you don’t have to finish the whole thing or even half of it. Think of each piece as a separate sefer.

    By the way it would be pretty funny if one of the people giving suggestions here was actually your teacher.

    Oh, and I’m going to add uighwisarogh;oaerhg to my lexicon. It’s definitely more intelligible than ontic dualism. Speaking of which, Microsoft Word apparently never took any philosophy classes because it doesn’t know the word ontic. Actually, it’s the Coffee Room spell checker that doesn’t know ontic; Microsoft Word recognized the word but couldn’t think of any synonyms for it. But I’m not surprised – as I discovered last week, Microsoft Word doesn’t think that hacceity is a word.

    Patur Aval Assur

    So I was listening to a recording of R’ Ruderman discussing seforim to learn for mussar/machshava (which he seemed to say are the same thing) and he said that Maharal is good, Moreh Nevuchim is good but you have to understand it, and he said that the Ralbag is not good. It’s possible that he meant only that Milchamos Hashem is not good, but that his Tanach commentaries are ok.

    Patur Aval Assur

    So I listened to it again to see if I could clarify what he said about the Ralbag. It’s pretty hard to make out what he’s saying. After he says that Moreh Nevuchim is good he says “but the _____’s seforim _____ the Ralbag is not so good”. The first blank sounded like he was saying Rasag, Rashag, Rashal, or Ralbag. Presumably he was referring to R’ Saadia Gaon or the Ralbag. If the first blank was “Ralbag” then it seems that he was talking about all his seforim, not just Milchamos Hashem. If the first blank was something else, then he might have only been referring to Milchamos Hashem when he mentioned the Ralbag. The second blank might have been “like” or “but”, which I’m not sure how would fit in the sentence, or it might have been something else entirely – it’s hard to distinguish.

    And I also noticed that he also said that Nefesh Hachaim and Kuzari are good as well.

    Patur Aval Assur

    Since I was unable to determine whether R’ Ruderman was referring to the Ralbag’s commentary on the Torah, I’ll just have to go with R’ Moshe’s haskama:

    ????? ??? ????”? ????? ?? ????? ????”? ?? ???? ????? ???? ??? ??? ??? ?????? ?????? ??? ???? ????? ?????? ????? ???? ??????? ???????? ???? ????? ????? ??? ????? ???”? ????? ??? ??? ??? ???? ?? ??? ??? ???? ??? ?????? ????? ????”? ????? ????”? ???????? ???”? ??? ????? ????? ????? ?”? ?????? ??? ??? ?????????

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