June 5, 2011 10:19 pm at 10:19 pm #597282
I would like to post an alert that all parents should carefully screen all reading material that is delivered to their homes, even supposedly ‘frum’ publications.
I don’t think we should be more specific, since I am sure there are young people who access this site & they would immediately go to publication X, page Y. However, a paper delivered to my house yesterday has gone beyond all bounds of decency to be expected in my community.
I would also like to know if the readership feels there could possibly be a fruitful discussion (again, without being so specific as to insight childish curiosity) as to whether advertisers should be protesting with their pockets in order to compel this publication to be more responsible. I don’t cholilah think it was done on purpose; I think they are just not careful enough to screen and edit their material, but I think it must be brought home to them that the frum community has some standards and we don’t want this trash in our homes.
This should really be coming from Rabbonim, but they are all too busy and probably don’t think it’s worth their time as it probably would not get anywhere. However, I think we need a Tea Party to protest lack of sensitivity to our standards. Is the Coffee Room an appropriate forum?
Hoping to hear from you.
Horrified BubbyJune 5, 2011 10:32 pm at 10:32 pm #793167
Exactly what was the point of this thread…June 5, 2011 10:38 pm at 10:38 pm #793168
It sounds like someone published a photo of Hilary Clinton.June 5, 2011 10:42 pm at 10:42 pm #793169
hanab: What did the publication do? Publish something against Talmidei Chachomim? Publish an inappropriate photograph?June 5, 2011 11:03 pm at 11:03 pm #793170
Sigh. No. Published a graphic description of torture in an Arab country, including specific reference to mutilation of body parts.June 5, 2011 11:11 pm at 11:11 pm #793171
The words “female circumcision” do not constitute a graphic description of anything.June 5, 2011 11:13 pm at 11:13 pm #793172
I have no idea what you are talking about, maybe you can be more specific?June 5, 2011 11:37 pm at 11:37 pm #793173
Who said it is inappropriate?June 6, 2011 12:01 am at 12:01 am #793174
If it gives anatomical details it’s not appropriate. Anyone disagree? (At least here there are moderators!)June 6, 2011 1:51 am at 1:51 am #793175
Okay. Fine. Nobody cares. I will take my cause elsewhere.June 6, 2011 3:08 am at 3:08 am #793176
“If it gives anatomical details it’s not appropriate. Anyone disagree?”
By not giving details we stay in denial about what is really going on.June 6, 2011 3:26 am at 3:26 am #793177
hanab – we are not ostriches. I am not offended by the mention of such things. We need to know what our enemies are doing. It gives us ammunition, when we want to show how depraved and barbaric their religious practices are towards women.June 6, 2011 3:51 am at 3:51 am #793178
G’mara is full of details you can’t repeat in mixed company.June 6, 2011 3:58 am at 3:58 am #793179
First of all, I never said this was about women. It’s about a young boy who had a body part amputated in the context of torture for rebelling against the regime. And I would think it’s no less gruesome if you don’t know the exact body part.
Second, I am not an ostrich, and I am sure all of us who are on-line see some material that would not pass the mods here. However, I do not expect young children to pick up a supposedly “kosher” paper and be confronted with such graphic material.
I don’t think most responsible parents will allow their young children to be unsupervised on-line without filters, or at the public library, for that matter. They use their discretion as to what a child should encounter, and at what age.
For instance, in a recent interview, Mrs. Lichtenstein of Hamodia and Rebbetzin Esther Farbstein of EY, were asked the appropriate age to expose children to information about the holocaust. I believe they said around 6th, 7th or 8th grade.
Would you want a five year old to come home from Pre1A with nightmares because he was exposed to material that was not age-appropriate?
My objection to this particular periodical is that they have ZERO sensitivity to the community, which, I am sure, is horrified by this material that was ‘inadvertently’ placed.June 6, 2011 4:05 am at 4:05 am #793180
im tempted to call troll on this threadJune 6, 2011 4:18 am at 4:18 am #793181
bomb – I’ll repeat after youJune 6, 2011 4:28 am at 4:28 am #793182
No, gentlemen, I am not a troll. I am actually a concerned mother and grandmother.
I am waiting for someone to tell me they don’t care what garbage comes into their house, or for someone to ask what they can do to help combat this problem.June 6, 2011 4:54 am at 4:54 am #793183
I don’t care what comes into my house.June 6, 2011 4:59 am at 4:59 am #793184
Although you mean well by not being more specific, you are not helping anyone by being so vague. Please enlighten as to what exactly your issue is, with which publication, etc; From whatever I do understand of what you’re saying though, it seems to be a rather minor issue. You should be thankful if that’s the worst picture your grandkids see/read about.June 6, 2011 5:10 am at 5:10 am #793185
This happened in Syria just recently. A 13 year old (supposed protester) was captured and brutally tortured to death by the Syrian gov’t. Do a web search for the gruesome details.
hanab – I see your point that our holy children should not be exposed to the brutality of the world. Even without details of which body parts were mutilated, it still may be too much for a child to hear about torture. OTOH I am not sure how bad news could be delivered to adults without the children finding out. Hashem YaazorJune 6, 2011 5:15 am at 5:15 am #793186
Ok. I’ll accommodate you. I do not care what garbage comes into my house. Are you happy now?
See, the problem with this thread is that no one has any bloody idea what you’re talking about.June 6, 2011 6:41 am at 6:41 am #793187
I would be disappointed to see what I consider unsuitable material in what I had considered a ‘kosher’ publication. I do screen material that comes into my house.
If you are trying to avoid giving the name of the publication (and I agree with your reasoning) then not much help can be given here.
I suggest you take it up directly with the publication. If they get enough complaints, they may do something about it.June 6, 2011 7:32 am at 7:32 am #793188
Is your issue that the content was objectively inappropriate, even for frum adults? Or that it’s not appropriate for children?
I don’t know what specific details you’re talking about, but I have more sympathy for the first cause than the second. There are many frum publications that are meant for the frum ADULT population to read. Parents should not allow young children to read adult magazines, since they often, and IMO appropriately so, discuss sensitive topics not intended for children.June 6, 2011 8:56 am at 8:56 am #793189
why would it be appropriate for a 5 year old to be reading any adult newspaper? sometimes, we adults need info. and news that we do not want our children to hear. so, i will bring magazines into my house that my kids are not capable of reading and should not be reading because they are appropriate for me.
anyways, unfortunately, my kids always hear ghastly details and news from their friends.June 6, 2011 12:05 pm at 12:05 pm #793190
MDG, you got it right. Since we adults can all get our news on-line, why do we need it again in six different publications as well? (I generally find there is little news to interest me by the time I get the weekly papers, I’ve seen most of it on-line already).
Well, as I said, I did not want to specify the publication so as not to encourage the ‘young readers’ to immediately run to read it. One question is, if they’re on-line, are they exposed to it anyhow?
Also, is there any point in naming names? Unless one is talking to an audience that cares about it, and is willing to take action, as outlined above.
Most of you say you don’t care. Fine. So none of you would suggest to an advertiser that they protest and withdraw their patronage? Okay. I guess this is the wrong forum.June 6, 2011 12:46 pm at 12:46 pm #793191
The point of the frum periodicals is to give news from a frum perspective – and there are a lot of people who *don’t* read the news online because of all the shmutz there – they depend on the their frum periodicals to report world news to them!
It sounds like you like the human-interest, family-friendly publications. And if you get your news online anyway, maybe don’t bring the “newsy” periodicals into your house.
I agree, of course, that frum publications should only have “appropriate” material. I’m just not convinced by your description that this particular article was inappropriate.June 6, 2011 12:47 pm at 12:47 pm #793192
bombanic – I like that pun!June 6, 2011 1:17 pm at 1:17 pm #793193
For instance, in a recent interview, Mrs. Lichtenstein of Hamodia and Rebbetzin Esther Farbstein of EY, were asked the appropriate age to expose children to information about the holocaust. I believe they said around 6th, 7th or 8th grade. “
So perhaps they should also not learn Sefer Shmos (Paraoh tortured the Jews and threw babies into th Nile), or about Haman, or Shimshon Hagibor whose eyes were bored out, until they are much older, also.
Maybe little kids should NEVER be taught the medrash about Avraham Avinu and the furnace into which Nimrod threw him. Or that Yosef’s brothers threw him in a pit.
There are realities of life, and one of them is that people can be incredibly cruel and inhumane to each other. Children CANNOT and should not be shielded from these things, though they can be explaine ona level that they can comprehend without getting nightmares. My father O”H explained the Holocaust to a group of Kindergartners (my daughter’s class), in order to show them a klaf of Torah that he had rescued that had been desecrated by the Nazis Y”Sh. He started off by asking them if any of them knew the story of Paraoh in Mitzrayim. when all of them raised their hands, he went on to explain that when their Bubbies and Zaydies were young, there was another man who was like Paraoh and his name was Hitler. He did bad things to the Jews (and then my dad took out the klaf and showed them). And he said, “The bad people took our Holy Sefer Torah and they scribbled all over it! Is that the right thing to do to a Torash????” The kids were spellbound. And they didn’t get scared, they had questions for him, like did we take a gun and shoot the bad people or put them in jail, and they were relieved to hear that the bad people got their just desserts. Kids are more resilient than we think, and they cannot be kept in a vacuum, because that does not prepare them for the real world. JMOJune 6, 2011 1:28 pm at 1:28 pm #793194
When I was in 4th grade we watched the Movie Genocide at an assemblyJune 6, 2011 1:33 pm at 1:33 pm #793195
I still have no idea what the OP is talking about. Care to enlighten us?
Brisker- what pun?June 6, 2011 1:40 pm at 1:40 pm #793196
Hanab maybe, you are wrong and overly sensetive?!?June 6, 2011 1:45 pm at 1:45 pm #793197
I mean what you’re doing is essentially tarnishing every jewish publication out there. If you have a problem with a specific one, or a specific article, then out with it. You accomplish nothing with your generalized outrage.June 6, 2011 2:59 pm at 2:59 pm #793198
Her point was, did it have to mention that the young child was castrated or not. It is factual and adds to the story, does it have to printed in a publication that is meant to be read by children. Does a child have to know the exact torture performed? Why?
And I believe it is a valid point she is raising. It is not neccesary to expose children to every detail of every horror, even though, unfortunately it does exist.
There are sugyos in the gemara as well parts of Nach that are not taught to younger children just because they are too young.
Hanab’s seems to be concerned that she chose this publication because she felt that she did not have to read it before providing to her children, that the editors have edited that it appropriate for young yeshiva children as well. She has now feels that she cannot do so and has to read to verify that it is not more graphic and descriptive than she feels is appropriate for her children.
For alll those who are concerned about keeping ones head in the sand, I assume that even you have some scruples and have preferences what your children read at what age. And, if you are responsible parents, do not provide age innapropriate publications to children.
Perhaps those who are most clueless about her concerns are those who have not had to consider being a responsible parent.June 6, 2011 3:41 pm at 3:41 pm #793199
Hanab. Whatever the publication, not a single person has responed with “me too, I also saw an article/photo/news item that was objectionable”.
Perhaps your standards are such, that you should consider stopping your subscription to all such publications.
Out of curiosity, did you voice your objections with the editors of this publication? Are you waiting for others to yes you, before you do so?June 6, 2011 3:55 pm at 3:55 pm #793200
She can control what her kids read. It is in no way the fault of the publication that her kids are exposed to what she deems inappropriate content. The fault is entirely hers and hers alone. Therefore her point is entirely INvalid. (redundant redundancy is redundant 😛 ) Where did she specify castration as the topic of discussion?June 6, 2011 4:51 pm at 4:51 pm #793201
Did no one hear/see the story about the Syrian child that was kidnapped and his body returned to his parents horribly tortured and castrated? That is the story the OP is talking about.June 6, 2011 5:02 pm at 5:02 pm #793202
I hesitated to specify the mutilation because it makes me sick to my stomach, but if we’ve gotten this far, yes, I think it’s entirely unnecessary to specify that an entire body part was cut off. That really goes beyond castration in sickness, actually.
Also, I do look through all the publications before my children read them. And, I don’t subscribe to this one, it comes free to all homes in Lakewood. We have called in the past and asked not to receive it, to no avail.
Also the publisher has proved, in the past, rather impervious to public opinion. The only protest that did cause some improvement, in the past, was a grass-roots campaign directed toward his advertisers, who all protested his poor judgement or lack of careful editing, and threatened to withdraw their advertising. Alas, the effect was temporary.
So, before naming names, I am trying to ascertain if it’s possible that enough people are outraged and willing to make a few calls or emails to advertisers, to ask them to insist on a more wholesome publication.
And, yes, it’s expected to be read by children. It has multi-page contests for children, as well as a full page from old Olomeinu back covers. If you get receive it, you know which one it is.June 6, 2011 5:07 pm at 5:07 pm #793203
Oh, and by the way, the JUNIOR SUDOKO was on the THE SAME PAGE.
(Sorry for shouting. Phew. Okay, I will now calm down. Thanks for listening.)June 6, 2011 5:08 pm at 5:08 pm #793204
If there is sufficient interest, I will provide a link to the on-line issue, where you will NOT see the offensive page, but you may choose one or two advertisers to contact if you find that suitable.June 6, 2011 5:26 pm at 5:26 pm #793205
“Where did she specify castration as the topic of discussion? “
Those of us who read about the boy in Syria know he was castrated, among other things. I understood from the start that was what hanab was referring to when she said “Published a graphic description of torture in an Arab country, including specific reference to mutilation of body parts. “
It’s rather gruesome what they did to him. Do a search on “syrian boy” to find out.June 6, 2011 5:29 pm at 5:29 pm #793206
I would change the thread title from Inappropriate “Jewish” Periodical to “Inappropriate” Jewish PeriodicalJune 6, 2011 5:34 pm at 5:34 pm #793207
If a graphic story like that was in the middle of a publication intended for children, then I completely agree that it’s inappropriate. And if the general society agrees (and cannot even choose whether to receive it!), then of course advertisers should not support it.June 6, 2011 5:35 pm at 5:35 pm #793208
These newspaper people are all about money. Why is the paper for free? To tell advertisers that they have a large subscription, so that they can charge more for advertisements.
It seems to me that you must constantly go after their money sources, their advertisers, until they (publishers and advertisers) get they point. Otherwise, they (publishers and advertisers) don’t care.
Being that you are in real yeshivish community, see if you can get some rabbanim on your side. I think that will make a bigger statement.June 6, 2011 6:27 pm at 6:27 pm #793209
bomb – the problem with this thread is that no one has any *bloody* idea of what your talking about.June 6, 2011 6:34 pm at 6:34 pm #793210
No, the Rabbonim are too busy & don’t think they’ll be listened to. They think people should call the advertisers.June 6, 2011 6:42 pm at 6:42 pm #793211
If the magazine is free and you find it objectionable throw it out. I don’t know what the local laws are in Lakewood, but in NYC, by law you may contact the publisher and tell them you don’t want unsolicited materials left by your home (the law does not apply to advertisements only). If the publisher passes the buck the the distribution company, call them and tell them not to leave it at your home.June 6, 2011 7:06 pm at 7:06 pm #793212
So this whole bruhaha is in opposition to the term “castration” appearing in an article? I’m still not seeing the problem.June 6, 2011 8:58 pm at 8:58 pm #793214
Sorry, bomb, I tried to be explicit but I believe it did not pass moderation.June 6, 2011 9:04 pm at 9:04 pm #793215
Dont let the kids go through the mail.June 6, 2011 9:19 pm at 9:19 pm #793216
Sorry, bomb, I tried to be explicit but I believe it did not pass moderation.
It must be really bad if it didn’t even pass moderation here.
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