July 26, 2012 5:18 pm at 5:18 pm #604284
[Could we please keep the discussion theoretical and not get bogged down in any potentially thread-closing specifics]
This is my understanding of a gadol:
(there are many other issues here, such as the special siyatta dishmaya which they receive, ruach hakodosh, etc, but I think these all results of their being close to Hashem, which is the main point. )July 26, 2012 6:02 pm at 6:02 pm #888123yytzParticipant
Rebbe Nachman of Breslov once said, “The world labors under the misconception that a tzaddik cannot make a mistake. I say this is not so. A tzaddik can make a mistake. The mistake remains a mistake and the tzaddik remains a tzaddik.”
Rebbe Nachman “also said of certain Chassidic leaders of his day, ‘The tzaddikim are making a mistake by praying after the z’man tefillah.'” (Chayei Moharan 487).
Of course, I’m not saying this describes any people known today as gedolim, but there’s also this…
“There are leaders who go by the name of rabbi but whose learning has been picked up from the
superficialities' andwaste’ of Torah. They are unable to control even themselves, let alone other people. But they still have pretensions to greatness and seek to lead and guide the whole world. You should be very careful to accord them no recognition whatsoever so as not to add in any way to their power or authority. They themselves can be forgiven for what they do: they are no more than the victims of a strong lust for power. It is the people who give them credibility and power and who are prepared to accord them the title of rabbi who will have a heavy penalty to pay.” (Likutei Eitzos).July 26, 2012 6:53 pm at 6:53 pm #888124CsarMember
The people who make attacks of “The Gedolim aren’t infallible” are plain anti-semites who happen to be Jewish. Some wear yarmulkas and claim to be frum.
The fact is NO ONE EVER claimed or claims the Gedolim are infallible. It is a strawman. They hate the Torah and Judaism but are embarrassed to say so. So instead they attack the Gedolm by effectively saying the Gedolim aren’t infallible, so therefore anytime they don’t like what the Gedolim say they can say the Gedolim are wrong, so they can do whatever they want to do.July 26, 2012 11:04 pm at 11:04 pm #888125SayIDidIt™Participant
yytz: To make “quotes”, press Shift and the button to the left of Enter. Hatzlacha!!
SiDi™July 27, 2012 1:05 am at 1:05 am #888126rabbiofberlinParticipant
Csar- you should be ashamed of yourself to post such drivel and loshon horah in the Nine days,. Don’t we have enough “sinas chinom” to go around ? your posting is disgraceful.July 27, 2012 1:39 am at 1:39 am #888127CsarMember
Guilty conscience, eh?July 27, 2012 3:21 am at 3:21 am #888128CuriosityParticipant
….*slowly walks backwards out of this thread*July 27, 2012 3:51 am at 3:51 am #888129yeshivishsocratesMember
They are indeed infallible, they are fallible by people greater than they are, that rules out most of the people who like to claim they they are fallible and all of the users of the YWNCR – barring Health of course….July 27, 2012 5:04 am at 5:04 am #888130
How about someone actually reading the OP.July 27, 2012 5:15 am at 5:15 am #888131rabbiofberlinParticipant
I sure don’ve any guilty consceince but, as we are just a day before tish be-av, I’ll wait till next week for serious comments.July 27, 2012 5:39 am at 5:39 am #888132pcozMember
hashoel es hachacham eino maphsidJuly 29, 2012 9:42 pm at 9:42 pm #888133
pcoz: what’s the source for that?
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