November 14, 2011 2:37 pm at 2:37 pm #600512
When you recive an invataition for a chasuna/bar mitzvah, and you are only invited for Desert/Simchos Choson V’Kalla, and not for the dinner. What does it mean? I take it as if the sender is saying “I am not really your freind, and I don’t really want to invite you, but I don’t want you to feel bad so I am inviting you for desert.” Now what I think back is. Mochel Tovos, and throw it straight into the garbage. Am I wrong?!November 14, 2011 3:46 pm at 3:46 pm #827204
There could be a lot of reasons. At least you didnt hear about the simcha as an event that already happened. If you are part of the immediate family, then I would be concerned. Maybe they are just having a small dinner and other valued acquaintances are invited for dessert.November 14, 2011 3:58 pm at 3:58 pm #827205
It means exactly what you think it means you are a second tier friend/relative and its too costly to invite everyone to the meal does that mean u should hire a babysitter and spend 1 to 2 hours traveling just to be there, the way i figure if they are not obligated to invite you to the meal you are not obligate to go.November 14, 2011 4:09 pm at 4:09 pm #827206
No. It means “You are my closest friend. You’ll understand. There’s either a place/money for you or for my Shver. (Now you know why there’s a return envelope!)”November 14, 2011 4:11 pm at 4:11 pm #827207
Personally, I do not get dressed up and go running possibly far from my house, for such an invitation, though I will do so to go only to a smorg and chuppah, if I am not invited for the whole thing. But that is not the same as being invited for the “last” part of the simcha.
Someone whom I thought to be a close friend and who was a guest at my own simchas, sent me an invitation to their daughter’s chuppah, and then with an additional printed card enclosed for the simchas chosson v’kallah and dessert. So I would have had to go to the chuppah at 6 PM, then go home and come back several hours later at 9:30 or so. That was just not a polite thing to do. And they had the wedding at a fancy country club, so it was not about money.
I DO understand that not everyone, myself included, can always be invited to everything, finances and/or space could be limited, etc. for the baal simcha, but it is tacky IMO to invite someone only for dessert unless the simcha is VERY early. Exception is Sheva Brachos in a private home, where people often invite others just for dessert to help make the minyan, and just have immediate family for the meal.
I have heard that it seems to be customary nowadays to also invite many of the chosson and kallah’s friends only for dancing and dessert, but I don’t love this idea. It makes it seem like you are on the A list or B list of invitees, and that bothers me.November 14, 2011 4:14 pm at 4:14 pm #827208
YES! You Are WRONG!!!!
From my experience, it means “we are very much trying to cut back and have invited as few people as we can to the dinner, but our Simcha would be lacking without you and we know that you will understand so we are inviting you for dessert/ Simchas Chosson V’ Kallah/ etc”
I enjoy going to these Simchas as I know the Baal Simcha knows I am coming just to join in his Simcha. It’s also so much easier on the schedule as one can come and go quickly without any hard feelings (which, BTW, is another thing Baalie Simcha often have in mind- they don’t want people to feel obligated to spend a whole evening at their Simcha)November 14, 2011 4:20 pm at 4:20 pm #827209
The worst part of making a simcha is deciding who to leave off the guest list. There just simply isn’t enough money to go around.November 14, 2011 4:25 pm at 4:25 pm #827210
RB- please! You are being too sensitive.
It means you are a good acquaintance, or a good enough friend to take part in our Simcha. However, since we have a big family and lots of closer friends to invite, we gotta make the limit somewhere. We still love you, and wed love to have you share in our Simcha….November 14, 2011 6:09 pm at 6:09 pm #827211
sc, lw – Come on, its not like we are talking about a simcha that only 40-50 people were invited, we are talking about where there are closer to 300 (each side) people invited for the seudah. So simply saying that “person X is close enough to me that its worth paying $40 for their meal, but you are just simply not close enough for it to be worth it to shell out $40 on you”.November 14, 2011 6:53 pm at 6:53 pm #827212
This is standard protocol at chassanahs at EY. Only family and close friends for the most part come to the meal and it is your choice whether to come for the chuppah (no smorgasbord here, just a few cakes) or the simchos chosson v’kalloh, where they usually put out a kabblos orchim set up of food for people who did not have the meal – kugels, maybe stuffed peppers, fruit, maybe a salad.November 14, 2011 7:19 pm at 7:19 pm #827213
If you take it to mean that, then maybe it does. If you are a real friend, and you’re truly happy for the baal simcha, you’ll go, invitation or not.
“Kimayim ponim el ponim, kayn lev ho’odom l’odom.”November 14, 2011 7:30 pm at 7:30 pm #827214
Agree 100% with RealBrisker (especially with the 2nd post!) – I feel that if I am really a close friend of the Simcha, they will make a way to invite me.
If they have closer friends than I am, then Baruch Hashem, let those closer friends enhance the Simcha!
No need for ill will, bad feelings on either side, clearly the two sides weren’t so close!November 14, 2011 7:58 pm at 7:58 pm #827216
i recently got married in a fancy hall that cost a lot of money – we had 800 people there at the meal. However, there were over 2,000 on the guest lists…. the hall was simply not big enough to seat everyone who was invited…. for technical reasons (lack of space) we had to cut back…. I very much appreciated anyone who came for chupa/dancing/dessert – even if there was no space for them at the meal… it does not mean they are second class – there were just obligations that needed to be met prior to inviting them… its a few months later and when i meet people i know in an instant whether or not they were at my wedding – I think you should try your best to attend…November 14, 2011 8:20 pm at 8:20 pm #827217
Yatzmich – Freinds is a two way thing. Just cause I might be someones freind, doesn’t mean that they are mine.November 14, 2011 8:43 pm at 8:43 pm #827218
If you get an invitation without a response card but with a Simchas Chassan ViKallah, it seems plain to me that nobody expects you to drive an hour or more just for the chuppah, then drive back home and turn around and then come right back for the 10:30 PM simchas chassan viKallah.
In this case, it’s obviously an either-or (but if you want to come to both then obviously they’ll be just as happy).
BTW, I happen to feel that this should be the norm; only very close family and select close friends should receive a response card. This would eliminate the “second class” issue.
The norm would be that unless you’re, say, either a brother or you’ve learned with the guy for 20 years, you’re getting a Chuppah and Simchas Chassan ViKallah invite. This would save millions of Jewish hard-earned dollars per year on full invites while still conveying to the invited party that you want to see them at your simcha and would be happy to provide dessert and tea, too, and allow that many more people to be misameach chassan vikallah (and stay for Sheva Brachos, too, once you’re coming that late…)
I am not at all insulted when I get a Chuppah/SImchas Chassan ViKalah invite. I take it as an acknowledgement that they wish me to participate in their simcha to the extent that they can reasonably offer, and I appreciate that. I don’t see the need to be insulted…November 14, 2011 8:51 pm at 8:51 pm #827219
or the simchos chosson v’kalloh, where they usually put out a kabblos orchim set up of food for people who did not have the meal – kugels, maybe stuffed peppers, fruit, maybe a salad. “
This is something new to me; I have never seen this done.November 14, 2011 9:02 pm at 9:02 pm #827220
how u look at it depends at what stage of the game u r in if u made a simcha already or r almost there u know u cant invite everybody…
also most people i know are at the stage of the game were we can not run out every night between homework etc so we usally just go to say mazel tov unless it somebody really close who puts the pressure on that they want to see us sit downNovember 14, 2011 9:39 pm at 9:39 pm #827221
It depends on the custom where you live. In Brroklyn its very comman and theres nothing to be hurt about. Even if you have 300 people eating at your simcha, every couple counts. Please don’t be offended.November 14, 2011 9:56 pm at 9:56 pm #827222
it means theres not alot of money. so deal.November 14, 2011 10:06 pm at 10:06 pm #827223
The word is spelled wrong.
You invite someone. You never “invate” him.November 14, 2011 10:39 pm at 10:39 pm #827224
oomis1105 – I’m not sure where you are, but this is a pretty regular thing at chassanahs here in EY. Everybody I know does it. Most don’t even give a card to say you’re invited to the meal, but if they’re tight on $ (who’s not these days – but really, limited space, etc) – then I have received a few invites that have a special card saying that you’re invited for meal or the simchas chassan vekallah, depending on which the baal hasimcha wants to specify on the small card inside.November 15, 2011 5:49 am at 5:49 am #827225
GM – Thanks for the haskamahNovember 15, 2011 5:50 am at 5:50 am #827226
HolyMoe – Thanks, that was an important one. My phone doesn’t have spell check.November 15, 2011 5:52 am at 5:52 am #827227
real isreali – In your case where you invited 800 people to your seudah, I would be even more insulted. “I didn’t even make it too your 800th freind”November 15, 2011 5:54 am at 5:54 am #827228
Hakatan – Its not reasonable to come for the chuppa, and then leave, and then come back for simchos chosson v`kallah 2 hours later.November 15, 2011 5:58 am at 5:58 am #827229
What really ticks me off is when such an invitation comes to a chassuna that is not in the vicinity to where I live.November 18, 2011 5:50 am at 5:50 am #827230
real-brisker, I agree. So if you’re not invited for the meal, what are you supposed to do between the chuppah and the first dance? And afterwards until the second dance? I assume you’d eat supper elsewhere…November 18, 2011 8:21 am at 8:21 am #827231
HK – I agree with your first post that this is an either-or situation. You either go for the chuppah and go home and eat dinner, etc at home or you eat dinner at home (or a restaurant close to the chassanah just to treat yourself) and then go for the simchas chosson v’kallah. No one expects you at that point to go to both, why would you think so? Yes, it is difficult if it is far away, but then you have to make a cheshbon of whether you want to go at all, you’re not chayav to go. I think it can save a lot of $ in babysitting money or if you decide to take the kids with, they don’t have their schedule upset each time you want to go to a simcha – just go for the chuppa and stay home for the rest. You can split it up if you want – wife takes kids to the chuppa and goes home to put them to bed. Hubby goes for the simchas chosson v’kallah.
By the way, as far as not making it to the 800th friend, don’t forget that there are 2 sides to a chassana. Perhaps one side has a very large family and the other side doesn’t. They could agree to split a portion of the meals that one side pays for all of that and then the side that has more people to invite simply adds the difference. Maybe your side only had 200 people on their list, most of whom was family and only very close friends because that is what they could afford simply because they were paying for 400 people total and that was their budget. Now the other side added 400 more meals on their own.
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