Inviting non-frum family to drive over on shabbos and yontif

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  • #616307
    newbee
    Member

    What do you do and whats the best way to handle it?

    #1099139
    mik5
    Participant

    Ask your Local Orthodox Rabbi.

    The best thing to do is to offer them a place to sleep. If they refuse to sleep over, that’s their problem, not yours.

    #1099140
    Joseph
    Participant

    Don’t invite if they might drive. Certainly if they will certainly drive on Shabbos/YT.

    #1099141
    old man
    Participant

    It depends where you live. Where do you live?

    #1099142
    Joseph
    Participant

    mik, areivim kol zeh l’zeh. We are each responsible for the next Jew. We can’t overlook if they will c’v be mechallel Shabbos/YT. And, lifnei iver, we certainly cannot enable or facilitate them doing so by asking them to come somewhere that they will be mechallel to achieve.

    #1099143
    🍫Syag Lchochma
    Participant

    Joseph – you are welcome to your opinion but there are poskim who disagree with you and anyone who follows a Rav who gives permission should do so regardless of your view on it.

    My mother was given the psak mentioned by mik, when i got married we asked our rov and were given a psak like yours. period.

    #1099144
    Joseph
    Participant

    There are all sorts of minority opinions one can find but what I mentioned is the normative common sense psak by the majority of chareidi poskim.

    #1099145
    🍫Syag Lchochma
    Participant

    minority opinions? really! You really do see yourself as the center of the universe, don’t you. <– rhetorical questions do not require question marks

    #1099146
    mik5
    Participant

    We are not police officers. If someone insists on being mechallel Shabbos, we are not going to lock the door and keep them inside.

    As long as you extend a genuine invitation to sleep over (and there is, indeed, a bed for them), it’s OK. Mention throughout the seuda that they are welcome to sleep over, etc.

    #1099147
    mik5
    Participant

    From dinonline:

    If it is certain that the guests will be leaving by public transportation, it would not be permitted to invite them to the Shabbos meal, because this would involve the prohibition of lifnei iver lo titen michshol (carrying the money for public transportation could be a full Torah prohibition). However, when inviting the guests, they can be politely asked to walk home after the meal (if this is possible, or to stay for the entire Shabbos if this is not possible), in order to avoid a desecration of the Shabbos. If their method of going home is unclear, it would be permitted to invite them for Shabbos, and, indeed, a mitzvah to do so, seeking to draw them closer to their roots.

    Sources:

    See Iggros Moshe, Orach Chaim, vol. 1, no. 99; Chashukei Chemed, Pesachim, p. 189, in the name of Rav Elyashiv shlita.

    #1099148
    mik5
    Participant

    Rabbi Eli Mansour:

    whether one may invite a non-observant Jew to his home for a Shabbat meal, knowing that the guest will drive there (and back) on Shabbat…. There is one writer [rabbi]

    #1099149
    zogt_besser
    Participant

    Rav Shternbuch is the only big name posek I know who says it is muttar. But I would hesitate to rely on him when numerous others disagree, and rav moshe uses such charif language against one who does invite such people, calling them a “meisis.”

    #1099150
    Sam2
    Participant

    I would love to know who Joseph considers the “normative common sense Psak” when R’ Moshe, R’ Shlomo Zalman, and R’ Elyashiv are all “minority opinions”.

    #1099151
    newbee
    Member

    BTW- I am not refering to family members who we can maybe be mekariv. I am talking about non-observant family members who will for sure be driving on shabbos/yontif and openly admit they will never be shomer mitzvos- just to simplify the question. Basically, inviting non-frum family members who will be coming just for social reasons.

    #1099152
    ☕ DaasYochid ☕
    Participant

    I don’t think the poskim are mattir for that case.

    There’s always a chance and we should never give up on anyone, but I don’t think they consider that enough to be mattir.

    #1099153
    Joseph
    Participant

    Sam – read the psakim inside directly. You’re wrong. And don’t try to fardrey the obvious bottom line psak by those poskim. They are only mattir if the guest accepts the sleepover (or walking) invitation. If he will drive/train, they rule prohibited. Your offering him accommodations where he doesn’t accept is insufficient.

    newbee – 100% assur l’chol hadeios.

    #1099154
    147
    Participant

    In the same vein, no one should even contemplate driving to Shul next week on R’H to hear Tekias Shofor. … If not driving to Shul means that unfortunately thy shall be unable to hear Tekias Shofor, then so be it.

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