Iran Agreement Will Go Into Effect

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  • #616295
    Joseph
    Participant

    Today the President has won the public commitment from enough U.S. Senators to uphold the agreement with Iran. This means the agreement will pass into U.S. law. He may even have enough Senators to block any Congressional resolution in opposition to the agreement and/or Congressmen to uphold a veto, if necessary.

    Now that it is clear that the agreement will go into effect, what is your take on the future? As a matter of reality, not as a matter of wishful thinking.

    #1098700
    miritchka
    Member

    This is has got to be one of the birth pangs of mashiach.

    #1098701
    DaMoshe
    Participant

    You’re wrong about one thing – the agreement won’t pass into law. The president can make agreements, and they are not considered laws. His agreements must comply with the laws of the US. That’s why Congress can stop the deal – they can pass a law which makes the deal illegal. Obama will veto such a bill. Obama has enough support to stop the override of a veto. Whoever is the next president can choose to back out from the deal if they want.

    #1098702
    ubiquitin
    Participant

    Iran will develop a bomb and we all will learn to live with it. IVe been saying this since March 2003 whn the US invaded IRaq

    #1098703
    screwdriverdelight
    Participant

    ubiquitin, I’m totally with you! There is an afterlife!

    #1098704
    Joseph
    Participant

    DaMoshe: It would be unrealistic, even if legal under domestic law, for a future President to back out because doing so would be a violation of the agreement the U.S. signed. And, practically, if a future President did back out, it would be like trying to put toothpaste back into the container. It wouldn’t achieve anything useful with the rest of the world already conducting commerce with Iran.

    #1098705
    akuperma
    Participant

    IT might work out, it might blow up in Obama’s face (he’ll be retired but hsi supporters will reap the benefits and pay the price). Remember that anything that requires a change in law won’t be happening so sanctions that are controlled by statutes aren’t affected unless Obama can get a majority in Congress rather than enough votes to override a veto banning the agreement.

    As it is the agreement only stays in effect until Jan. 21, 2017.

    And if it results in Iran helping to crush Islamic State, it will help the Democrats. If it leads to a war between Iran and America’s allies in the region, it will make the Democrats look like fools. Right now Islamic State is more to be worried about than Iran.

    #1098706
    DaMoshe
    Participant

    Joe, Congress made it clear that the agreement wouldn’t be binding on a future president – didn’t the Republicans send a letter to Iran stating that to be the case? So everyone is fully aware that another president can back out, and a Republican president probably would.

    As for your toothpaste comment, that’s not necessarily true. The US is involved in a huge amount of the business Iran does, whether directly or indirectly. Transactions between Iran and other countries can have problems if banks with branches in the US are involved – the US can freeze the funds. Some other countries will also go along with the US.

    #1098707
    Joseph
    Participant

    DaMoshe: Historically it is virtually unprecedented for a future President to renege on an agreement previously signed by the United States. So it is highly unlikely to occur despite any political rhetoric made by the royal opposition even if they are to regain power.

    But even independent of all that, right now the US is involved in almost no business Iran does due to US sanctions against Iran. Once sanctions are lifted, presumably America will be involved in some transactions with Iran but most of the new business with Iran will be with Europe not the US.

    And Europe will not reimpose sanctions simply because a future President reneges on a signed international agreement. Europe was shlepped kicking and screaming to get them to enact even the current sanctions. They’ve been angling to get out of sanctioning Iran even before the agreement. Now that there’s an agreement, if the US suddenly changes its mind Europe will not simply bend over and agree to reimpose it simply because a new President wants to undo what the previous Administration signed on behalf of the United States.

    #1098708
    rational jew
    Participant

    As far as Iran becoming an existential threat to Israel, there’s little to fear. Israel will bomb them without any care to what the US or anyone thinks long before Iran comes close to getting a bomb. This is not like Gaza or Lebanon this genocide. So lets calm down and hope the mossad are informed enough when to make these decisions.

    #1098709
    kj chusid
    Participant

    Mazel tov on the agreement . Zionism shouldn’t always be dictating American foreign policy decisions

    #1098710
    👑RebYidd23
    Participant

    Are you crazy? Israel is a country full of people. Real, living, breathing people.

    #1098711
    apushatayid
    Participant

    the iranians can be counted on to say or do something so outrageous that all involved will be compelled to dissolve the deal.

    #1098712
    apushatayid
    Participant

    the iranians are making it abundantly clear they they are not bound by any deals they may have signed.

    #1098713
    Joseph
    Participant

    I said in the OP, no wishful thinking.

    #1098714
    apushatayid
    Participant

    you think its wishful thinking the iranians wont say or do something stupid?

    #1098715
    nfgo3
    Member

    So far, no one has said that Iran will get a bomb and destroy Israel. Why was there so much condemnation of Congressmen – particularly Jewish ones – who support the deal with Iran, if no one expects the destruction of Israel?

    #1098716
    interjection
    Participant

    Nfgo3 because now Israel is forced to stop it. Israel will bomb Iran without support from any other country in the world. Whether or not Iran has a nuclear bomb at that point Israel risks her survival by attacking Iran but there won’t be a choice anymore other than to rely on an open miracle.

    Israel already said they will attack if need be. Bibi said “we are not bound by this deal and we will defend ourselves”. The choice was to stop it through diplomacy or to let it get to the point that Israel bombs Iran. When that happens everyone will be mad at Israel and our tiny little country will be alone.

    All I can say is I’m very happy that i have a safe room in my apartment and that it comes with an air neutralizer.

    #1098717
    Joseph
    Participant

    there won’t be a choice anymore other than to rely on an open miracle.

    Israel might not survive, unless there is a miracle?

    #1098718
    ☕ DaasYochid ☕
    Participant

    Nfgo3, just because nobody wants to speak out the unspeakable, doesn’t mean it’s not what people are afraid of.

    #1098719
    Joseph
    Participant

    The question is whether it is more likely that Iran will destroy Israel under this agreement than if no agreement was reached and the status quo had remained.

    #1098720
    interjection
    Participant

    Joseph

    Israel won’t have a choice to not attack because Iran has already declared numerous times that they will destroy Israel. The choice is either to wait it out and hope for an open miracle when Iran does use the bomb that they will create or the other choice is to prevent them from getting the bomb (which would also be miraculous tbh).

    Iran is no more and no less commited to destroying isran based on this deal. Their goal to destroy Israel is totally unrelated to the outcome of the deal. However, because of the deal, they will now have the means to create a bomb. They are not more interested in destroying Israel because of this deal, however, before they financially and realistically could not do so. Now, however they can.

    #1098721
    Joseph
    Participant

    interjection: So, IOW, what you’d have preferred is that the U.S. had attacked Iran (instead of the agreement) so that Israel shouldn’t have to attack Iran.

    Israel wouldn’t have had to attack Iran if no agreement was signed?

    And explain to me how Iran was less likely to get the bomb had the status quo remained, and no agreement signed, and Iran continued to build whatever uranium and nuclear facilities they were already engaged in without any inspections than with the new agreement that everyone agrees puts the brakes on Iran for 10 or 15 years? (The opponents claim is that after those years Iran is free.)

    North Korea has been sanctioned to death by both the U.S. and the U.N., and their people are literally starving (they need international food charity just to have basic rice not to starve) and yet they built their first bomb in the late 1990s and have continued building additional bombs till this day.

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