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SO the oilam in Toms River and Jacksosn is shtark giving out the local kinderlach candies likovid the goyish chag. Is this bichlall mutar?
The video on the YWN homepage is shtark spot on.
What does the chevra hold?
Are they giving it out likovod the chag? When I give out candy, it is to avoid “tricks” being sent my way. Kind of like the money people pay the mafia for the zechus of keeping their store in the neighborhood (and in one piece).
Where do you live that the shkotzim do “tricks” on Jewish homes that don’t give?
People trick or treating want candy, not an arrest record. Leave the porch light off so they won’t come. If you live in an area with many frum Jews, the goyim know who not to waste time with.
People trick or treating want candy, not an arrest record
Unfortunately there are some people who don’t know how to use their brains properly.
All it takes is for one such person to do something stupid.
I doubt frum neighborhoods in Lakewood, Monsey, Flatbush, Boro Park or Williamsburg get much trick or treating at frum homes.
When R’ Yaakov Kaminetsky TZATZAL moved to Mosey, a frum local resident approached him to tell him about Halloween. He told the person not to worry, the Rebbetzin had already bought the candy.
The children in Kensington would stop by the house of R’ Avrohom Pam TZATZAL as his Rebbetzin would distribute freshly made popcorn.
I usually just put out a bowl with a sign that says “Take one.”
I don’t even put anything in the bowl.
Lol
Very easy to sell kano’us. Makes one feel all good inside. The connection to avoida zoro is tenuous – check in wikipedia: it involves remebering the dead, and perhaps the end of the harvest in celtic times. Moreover, if there was a real connection with idolatry, it would not be permitted to participate on the grounds of eivah. so some rather weak logic at the base. Add to that the multiple testimonies of Rav Pam and Rav Kaminetzki’s participation, it would appear that a reconsideration is in order.
According to the Encyclopedia Britannica, Halloween originated with the pagan Celtic festival of Samhain, a day on which the devil was invoked for the various divinations. ‘The souls of the dead were supposed to revisit their homes on this day’, Britannica says, ‘and the autumnal festival acquired sinister significance, with ghosts, witches, hobgoblins .. and demons of all kinds said to be roaming about.’
It is noted by Professor John Hennig, in his classical article on this topic, there is a clear historical relationship between the Celtic concepts of resurrection, Roman Catholic responses to it, and the modern American holiday of Halloween.
It is narishe to call giving candy to children who show up at your door celebrating Halloween.
That is just a matter of spreading goodwill, or protecting yourself from being egged.
Celebrating would be going out trick or treating, dressing up, or putting out the decorations.
I was somewhere this year Yom Tov and saw houses that had mezuzos and pumpkins by the door. That I did not understand.
@nisht……….
Pumpkins do not equal Halloween
They are a fall gourd.
We use them to decorate the Sukkah, as well as the front of our home
We have a historic 200+ year old home in a small Connecticut town, There is a horse drawn carriage (no horse) on our front lawn. It is decorated with seasonal growth. This time of year there is dried Indian Corn and pumpkins………
It will stay that way until after American Thanksgiving. Then we put the carriage in storage until the spring. It will be decorated with fresh flowers that vary by the season until the fall harvest from our veg patchesPumpkins are one thing, jack-o-lanterns are another. Also, having a mezuza on your front door doesn’t mean you’re frum.
Last night’s doorstep pumpkin may become this Shabbat’s kugel.
@lightbrite
The pumpkins won’t become a kugel, but will both make soup and pie.
The grandchildren will be munching on roasted pumpkin seeds for months to comeHalloween is definitely of pagan origin and then was adapted by Xtianity (although the Puritans opposed it as well as Xmas). Dressing up as witches, etc. is certainly pagan. In fact,some historians believe that the witch trials in both North America and Europe were a religious war against the remnants of European paganism. BTW, CTL, just out of curiosity did your pumpkin used to be the carriage? You say that your house is 200 years old. Does it have a ghost?
I cannot judge the Jews who were forced into this but I look on with sadness that Jews are compelled to participate in a revolting practice simply because they have targets on their backs and need to “prove” that they are nice people. Maybe they should take off their head coverings to prove that they don’t have horns either. Sad.
I cannot judge the Jews who were forced into this but I look on with sadness that Jews are compelled to participate in a revolting practice simply because they have targets on their backs and need to “prove” that they are nice people. Maybe they should take off their head coverings to prove that they don’t have horns either. Sad.
There is no halloween where I live so its not a problem for me. But its one thing to discuss things with adults and its quite another with children. All the kid wants is some candy if some little kid dressed as batman or a princess comes to your house are you really going to tell him about Avodah Zarah (The kid is 6 and just wants some candy)
But its one thing to discuss things with adults and its quite another with children. All the kid wants is some eggs if some little kid dressed as an Easter Bunny comes to your house are you really going to tell him about Avodah Zarah (The kid is 6 and just wants some colorful eggs)
FTFY
The easter bunny is not a sign of Avodah Zarah, its a sign of fertility
What colors are the eggs you give the kids?
Its good to know that Joseph knows halachas better than Rav Pam or Rav Yaakov Kaminetsky
A Jew may not worship idols. But he may be machnif lohem. So he may give them gifts on their holiday, even a holiday like Xmass. That doesn’t constitute idol worship. That’s the halacha.
יו”ד קמ”ח
ולכן אם נכנס לעיר ומצאם שמחים ביום חגם ישמח עמהם משום איבה דהוי כמחניף להם ומ”מ בעל נפש ירחיק מלשמוח עמהם אם יוכל לעשות שלא יהיה לו איבהA Jew may not worship idols. But he may be machnif lohem. So he may give them gifts on their holiday, even a holiday like Xmass. That doesn’t constitute idol worship. That is the halacha.
יו”ד קמ”ח
ולכן אם נכנס לעיר ומצאם שמחים ביום חגם ישמח עמהם משום איבה דהוי כמחניף להם ומ”מ בעל נפש ירחיק מלשמוח עמהם אם יוכל לעשות שלא יהיה לו איבהHalloween is the only Chagga I keep. It’s so much fun sharing ghost stories.
Revolting? What is so revolting about giving candy to little kids dressed like superman and Barbie? The average American probably thinks a pagan is a character in the newest game downloadable from the app store.
What relevance is what the average American kid thinks? The indesputable fact is that Halloween originates as a pagan (i.e. A”Z) holiday and was adopted from the pagans by the Roman Catholic Church as All Hollows Day.
The relevance is, those who observe the american “holiday” halloween are not observing the pagan holiday or its version borrowed by the rc church. they are using its name.
Joseph,
As for what it matters what one thinks, are you saying that based on Halcha or just your feelings? Based on the Rambam in pirush haMishnayos in Chulin you are clearly wrong.
Especially, that the typical non-jew is against Paganism.
Do you know that masqeurading on Purim also has pagan backgrounds according to many…The relevance is, those who observe the american “holiday” halloween are not observing the pagan holiday or its version borrowed by the rc church. they are using its name.
You could say the same about Christmas. Most treat it as a secular holiday, a day off to go shopping, get discounts and put out a cute Christmas tree and lovingly give family members presents. Do you give Christmas gifts? (You can always choose to call it a “Chanuka” present.) Despite the constitutional laws separating Church and State, even the United States recognizes Christmas as a secular legal holiday.
GAON: Again, the Roman Catholic Church has long ago Christianized All Hallows Day. It is no longer just pagan.
“You could say the same about Christmas.”
yes you can. I do. I give the atheist bus driver his monetary gift, and the buddhist mailman his bottle of scotch. In their mind, and in my mind, it has nothing to do with the guy supposedly born in a manger with a mezuman of wise men.
apy: Did you ask a shaila before doing all that for Christmas or did you decide to do so based on your own personal daas?
apushatayid
While I am not sure if its permitted or not, you might as well give it as a New Years gift. That is what I do.
Joseph,
“the Roman Catholic Church has long ago Christianized All Hallows Day.”
In this case, you are incorrect. Halloween in America has never been adopted as a religious holiday in the first place. Its more a culture kind of Festival. Yes, a Jew shouldn’t celebrate it, as after all it does have its pagan origins, but as far as giving out presents it is by far any comparison to X-mas.You should (at least!) read first the Rambam in beg of Chulin and then shoot Psakim. The rambam explains there are two types of A”Z, and in this case its not even close to the 2nd, which is Mutar beHana’ah…
If instead of Halloween it was called Hitler day. Would you still give out treats? And don’t worry it doesn’t really have anything to do with the nazis. that was a long time ago its just a fun things kids do today that has nothing to do with anything.
Just because goyim are happy we do something doesn’t make it a kiddus Hashem. I’m sure they would be happy to if we all converted CV.
How about on Rosh Hashanah give them an apple an honey and wish them a sweet (real) new year.
GAON: Halloween in America came over here from America’s parent country, Great Britain, as well as from Ireland (where many immigrated from to the U.S.) And Halloween most certainly came about as a religious holiday recognized by the Church. There is absolutely no doubt about this. As well as that the Church adopted it from its original pagan roots.
“Did you ask a shaila before doing all that for Christmas or did you decide to do so based on your own personal daas?”
What do you think?
I really do not think that the bus driver, etc. care if you call it a Chanuka gift. they just want the gift. Decades ago NYC banks got tired of everybody and his brother wanting a club named after his holiday so they merged everything into “holiday clubs”. Why not just leave a pace on the note and under it write “fill in the blank”?
“What do you think?”
If I knew I wouldn’t ask. You asked a shaila if you can give Christmas gifts to non-Jews and were told you may?
Would (or do) you attend a Christmas Party at your workplace, since that keeps a friendly relationship with colleagues? (As is, presumably, the reason you give the bus driver and mailman a Christmas present.)
knows halachas better than Rav Pam or Rav Yaakov Kaminetsky
Even assuming the stories were true, which is an assumption, it could well be they weren’t aware of the origins or history of All Hollows Day and Halloween. They never issued a psak on this and we don’t pasken from stories. When Rav Elyashev paskened sheitels are assur due to A”Z, many argued against that saying Rav Elyashev wasn’t familiar with the actual history of how the original hair was compiled. Does your family use sheitels that contain human hair?
Have you considered the fact that Reb Moshe didn’t hand out candies on Halloween? And that Rav Aharon didn’t either? Nor did the Satmar Rebbe, Rav Gifter, Rav Hutner, Rav Ruderman, Rav Schorr, Rav Birnbaum or Rav Svei. And today candies aren’t distributed on Halloween from the homes of the Novominsker Rebbe, Rav Dovid Feinstein, Rav Shmuel or Rav Aharon Schechter.
So if one is to pasken based on anecdotes, then we can pasken from the vast majority of Gedolei Yisroel who did not, and do not, partake in Halloween in this manner that we may not do so.
“You asked a shaila…”
Did you?
I’ve never heard of any one assuring other than on the
The actual day Dec 25 (when there’s no mail anyway). Is there any source that says there’s an issur during the “holiday season”?Where do you pick up these strange ideas? And more importantly why? Is it to show us how drum you are, is it to save a few bucks on a holiday gift?
And for the record giving candy to kids asking for candy isn’t “celebrating halloween” it is being a normal neighbor.
“candies aren’t distributed on Halloween from the homes of the Novominsker Rebbe, Rav Dovid Feinstein, Rav Shmuel or Rav Aharon Schechter.”
I am moiche against the hotzaos Laz against gedolim. Of course they would give if kids came. As R’ Dovid shlita told me “who wouldn’t?” You don’t have to store the candy in a pumpkin or anything. Just be normal.
It’s embarrassing that the toms river story describing people being normal is a big “kiddush hashem” whats next saying thank yiu is a big kiddush hashem.
(Yes Joseph we know saying thank you is chukas hagoy, chanifa and lo sichanem.)Did you?
Yes. And it was paskened to not give candies on Halloween and to not give Christmas presents anytime during the “season”.
joseph: Have YOU considered that these gedolim may have not have been at home when neighborhood children came collecting and that is why we don’t know what they did? Were you personally with these gedolim on any halloweeen to know what they did? People who actually spoke to R’ Yaakov or were in Rav Pam’s house saw what they did so stop downplaying their actions so as to conform to your shita.
Based on your shita, one shouldn’t dress up in a costume on Purim because these gedolim didn’t dress up in costumes on Purim.
“Yes. And it was paskened to not give candies on Halloween and to not give Christmas presents anytime during the “season”.”
Mazel tov
And Are you not aware of legitimate shitos that allow it?iacisrmma: You ignored the first paragraph of my comment that you responded to.
Are you not aware of legitimate shitos that allow it?
No. Unless you accept anecdotal stories that were never written or spoken, and are only related second-hand by third-parties, as both factual and as constituting a psak halacha. And even if you do accept all that, as I explained above, there are so many more gedolei yisroel with the opposite opinion (based on the logic used to ascertain these apparent opinions.)
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