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With the many conflicting reports it seems as if Uman will be open. Just wondering if fear of covid will stop those who are yearly attendees …
FEar will not be the main factor. It is more about logistics. If one has to quarantine two weeks upon arrival, then…
The people that I know that go yearly, myself included, are planning and will be making every effort to go this year as well
I know people that go yearly that are making an extra effort. But not every effort. They did not join the group that went a month ago to Europe. And planned to be in Umman by next week.
Given that both governments have asked people NOT to come fecause of the public health issues, why would anyone deliberately want to jeopardize their own health, their families and the tzibur at large by pour money into one of the most anti-Semitic countries in the world.
Selfishness.
There is a family in my community named Uman. They usually sponsor a shiur in their sukka during Chol haMoed.
@godol, A few years ago during the Ukrainian civil war, my grandmother a Auschwitz survivor ask me if one side was most pro Jewish so I told her both were about the same, so she said if that the case let them shecht each other out, the most vicious guards in the camps were the Ukrainians.
Dear Gadol,
The pull to Umman is because they make an actual Yom Tov out of Rosh Hashanah. It is not depressing or debased. Fits well with the mood of the day. Try it out yourself. It might suit you.
nOmesorah: If you have to leave your family, risk their health and fly thousands of miles to enrich those whose CommonSaychel’s grandmother correctly ID’d as the world’s worst antisemitim in order to experience a “true yom tov”, I suspect you have bigger problems in your emunah and hashkafah than we can deal with here. I respectfully submit that running off to Uman next month would be both depressing and debased.
Why leave your family at home? Uman is the best place for a family trip. Wholesome time spent in the center of a religious movement.
GH I dont understand why it bothers you so deeply that people go to Uman. Every year, your posts are so passionate about this topic. You dont have to go but why do you feel so strongly about it?
Reform rabbi, very funny but don’t give up your day job.
While being a misnagid, I never understood Rosh Hashonna in Uman, I can certainly commend the people who are mamehs being מוסר נפש to go this year. Unlike previous years, where it was a simple few flights and a few days of Yom Tov, this year is over a month commitment to go. Not only do the מתפללים and Chassidim have to spend long hours on a flight and in airports wearing masks, but they will have to leave next week and stay in quarantine in Ukraine for two weeks before ראש השנה then another two weeks when they come home! This is an unprecedented level of commitment to Yiddishkeit and may we be zoche to see משיח this year in their זכות.
Perhaps, at one point in time, this was a small focused group of true believers who felt passionately about a segulah and spiritual uplift from davening at the kever of their rebbe. However, to me, this event has taken on many attributes of a goiyehse type of “new age” festival where we annually read about disorderly groups acting inappropriately on airplanes and while in Uman. They may be a small percentage of those traveling to Uman but they get an outsized amount of negative publicity,. This year especially, the governments of both EY and Ukraine seem to want to limit travel but the Nachmanites clearly don’t care about the public health concerns and simply don’t want to miss their annual event.
“True believers” would be going to Yerushalayim, not someplace in the middle of Jew hatred country.
From statement to news media motzi Shabbos by Dr. Gamzu, the new EY Covid Czar. He is prohibiting all flights to Uman and urging the government of Ukraine to ban all visits to the kever this year. He is tasked with saving lives and has the full support of Netanyahu. (Full story on YWN main news page)
“Uman is not one of the Tishrei Chagim and is not a devar kodesh,” Gamzu said. “It’s a hillulah or party and it’s not necessary to do it. It can bring us closer to a lockdown. The whole government needs to be firm in order to earn the public’s trust and say to the chassidim – don’t travel during this time to Uman, it will endanger lives in Israel. I’m announcing – there are no flights to Uman – period.”
From statement to news media motzi Shabbos by Dr. Gamzu, the new EY Covid Czar. He is prohibiting all flights to Uman and urging the government of Ukraine to ban all visits to the kever this year. He is tasked with saving lives and has the full support of Netanyahu. (Full story on YWN main news page)
“Uman is not one of the Tishrei Chagim and is not a devar kodesh,” Gamzu said. “It’s a hillulah or party and it’s not necessary to do it. It can bring us closer to a lockdown. The whole government needs to be firm in order to earn the public’s trust and say to the chassidim – don’t travel during this time to Uman, it will endanger lives in Israel. I’m announcing – there are no flights to Uman – period.”
There has been no place in the history of humanity that has treated Jews worse than Ukraine. 🙁
The only good news is that in recent years the openly anti-Semitic parties have seen their support decline. The main anti-Semitic fascist party, Svoboda, only managed one seat in the 2019 parliamentary elections.
People go to Uman because REB NACHMAN EXPLICITLY ASKED FOR IT and promised that he will look after anyone who goes. That’s why people were moser nefesh to go in the difficult years, before it became a carnival. In recent years, yes, there have been those who go for the sideshows, and Reb Nachman is an afterthought (but at least that!).
But this year once again going takes mesirus nefesh, so if GHT actually believes what he claims to he should be admiring those who brave the difficulties and go even this year. He might even say that if you don’t go this year it shows that you’re a fake and — in the event that Moshiach has ch”v not yet come by next year — you shouldn’t go then either. But since he doesn’t actually mean it he isn’t admiring those people, he’s condemning them! How does this make sense? Anyone going this year is not going to party! They’re going for the Rebbe, and surely the Rebbe will daven for them and help them.
So Gamzu has become a posek, and can say what is or isn’t necessary?
No, neither Gamzu nor any of the public health officials in EY, the US or anywhere are poskim. They are all dedicated to providing their best professional judgement as to what steps will best protect the well being of the tzibur. Its up to elected officials to be “poskim” with respect to government policy and will and won’t be allowed. If some of you actions or behavior threaten the well-being of others, than the government in most societies decides whether to curtail or restrict your behavior. That is a social norm that until recently most of us had accepted but like everything else today, whether it be wearing a mask or restricting travel, its become a political statement on “personal liberty”.
No, GHT, I’m not going to let you get away with this dishonesty. You approvingly cited Gamzu pretending to be a posek, and now you must either attempt to defend it or explicitly renounce it. Neither Gamzu nor any “public health official” or “elected official” is entitled to even express an opinion on the importance or lack thereof of the pilgrimage to Uman. Not even rabbonim and dayonim, especially ones who are not chassidim, have the right to an opinion on the matter. The only ones entitled to pasken on it are those who try to go every year, and the eltere chassidim of Breslav who are the transmitters of the Breslaver derech. The government will ultimately decide whether to facilitate the pilgrimage or make it difficult to impossible, but they cannot pasken on its importance.
And your condemnation of those who will be moser nefesh to go this year proves that all your protestations about the carnival are dishonest. You were never upset about the carnival, you were always upset about thoe who sincerely go to the Rebbe AS HE REQUESTED. Which means לא עלינו תלונותיכם כי על גו׳
It may be worthwhile to recall, that the measels epidemic that recently spread through the jewish community, was found to have spread from Umann over Rosh Hashana 2018. That is what is motivating Gamzu and other Health Officials.
Dear Takah,
” “True believers” would be going to Yerushalayim, not someplace in the middle of Jew hatred country.”
I do not see the truth to your statement.
Dear Gadol,
” However, to me, this event has taken on many attributes of a goiyehse type of “new age” festival”
and
“They may be a small percentage ”
It appears that you explicitly stated, that you have no qualms about basing your perspective on what you yourself admit may be the exception.
Milhouse: Government cabinet ministers “paskin” politically all the time regarding their areas of responsibility and that comes with the turf. I don’t recall you ever condemning some of the more outrageous and vile commentary coming from some of the religious party cabinet ministers and their appointees regarding the actions taken by secular professionals acting on behalf of the government. I could care less regarding Gamzu’s opinions on the merits of Breslov going to Uman or the hashkafah and minhagim of any other chassidus. I don’t anticipate Gamzu paskining on the hashgacha of the knesset cafeteria or whether to say hallel on the day the first Covid vaccine is administered. He is making his decision the basis of not wanting to have thousands of frum travelers coming back to EY from an area with high levels of viral infection and returning to frum communities already struggling with the virus. Sometimes, mesiras nefesh is defined by foregoing something that is important to you for the benefit of the tzibur.
@Commonsaychel
In 1980 when the Polish Government and Lech Walesa led Solidarity were fighting it out at The Lenin shipyards in Gdansk, my eldest son asked my father Z”L who we supported. My father replied the groups are all Poles, anti-semites, let them kill each other………………………………..no need to take sidesMygreat-great grandparents left Suwalki, Poland for America in 1872…we were lucky B”H
GHT once again evading. Gamzu specifically paskened on the importance of the pilgrimage, which he had no right to do. And you cited him approvingly. Now are you going to defend that, or change your mind and denounce it.
The antisemitism of some or most Ukranians is irrelevant. They’re certainly not more antisemitic than they were when they slaughtered the kedoshim who are buried in Uman, or when Reb Nachman moved there for the specific purpose of being buried with those kedoshim, or when he asked that people come to him on Rosh Hashona.
Gamzu wrote a letter to the Ukrainian government telling them that the Israelis who arrive will be bringing a plague with them that will take over the country (not his exact wording but that was the message). Does anyone have a copy his letter that he sent to Greece? Or is he only trying to stop chareidim from “partying” in foreign countries?
Dear Gadol,
As there seems to be a lot of Americans that did not head to Umann over the summer, it is safe to guess that there will be local Breslover minyanim for Rosh Hashana. Maybe you can join one and reap the spiritual benefits yourself. [Without feeling troubled about supporting anti-semites.]
Dear Interjection,
Someone who has symptoms would cancel his vacation. If he does not, there is not much you can do. He will party in Israel if he wants. The fact is Yidden get very touchy about cancelling their Rosh Hashana.
On a more serious point. Some Bresolvers avoid preventive medical safeguards. It is part of their life philosophy. We know that Tzfas Yidden went to Umann with the measels!
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