January 24, 2021 6:13 pm at 6:13 pm #1941958Just WonderingParticipant
Is there an value to not pollute, to reduce waste, etc? I don’t mean to reuse something in order to save money, or to buy an electric car to save on gas. I am wondering if there is any “inyan” to Go Green without any financial or other external consideration.January 24, 2021 9:32 pm at 9:32 pm #1942024
No.January 24, 2021 10:06 pm at 10:06 pm #1942042erParticipant
I believe there is. Fear not folks, it doesn’t mean it’s the ikar of Yiddishkeit. But seems like many attack environmental concerns because it’s embraced more by a political party that they associate with atheism, whether consiously or not. Aside from saving money or protecting natural systems which we benefit from, it’s a Jewish value to try to use less or be less damaging when we can. It’s modesty, humility, and respect for what Hashem gives us. It shows a middah we value in every other aspect of life, so why not this? In the same vein, if there are things we can do to protect nature and ecosystems, why would we value short-term gain instead of appreciating it all and saving it if we can?January 24, 2021 10:14 pm at 10:14 pm #1942036PaperBridgeParticipant
It seems like a minor distraction, but really it’s a slippery slope. First you start caring about taking care of the earth so that the next generation doesn’t suffer from widespread drought, famine, clean air and healthy drinking water. Before long you start caring about the condition of humanity in general and advocating for legislation that could mitigate war and suffering. That’s when you start mixing with humanitarian types, and you start valuing tolerance and related things. Some even begin to value art and science. Better just to love money and maybe also fashion eyeglasses which are very yeshivish.January 24, 2021 10:20 pm at 10:20 pm #1942046
The world was created for the use of it by humanity.
Chop down those trees.January 24, 2021 10:20 pm at 10:20 pm #1942047👑RebYidd23Participant
Fashion eyeglasses normalize myopia and other vision issues. If you have a hard time seeing, keep it to yourself. Try to work on it. Don’t try to convince other people that it’s normal or healthy.January 24, 2021 11:43 pm at 11:43 pm #1942087JacobLevParticipant
ujm: What are your great great great grandchildren going to do when all the trees are chopped down?January 24, 2021 11:45 pm at 11:45 pm #1942106
“Better just to love money and maybe also fashion eyeglasses which are very yeshivish”
Antisemite much?January 25, 2021 12:24 am at 12:24 am #1942110PaperBridgeParticipant
Avram in MD, consider that I was replying to, “I am wondering if there is any ‘inyan’ to Go Green without any financial or other external consideration.” No, certainly I would not attribute to Jews or to any other social, religious, ethnic, or other group the idea that financial considerations are an obvious motivator for behavior whereas caring for the environment is the sort of thing that is not at all obviously important and needs some sort of rationalization. I do not believe that Jewish people are more disposed to this ridiculous belief than other people, and I find it incredible that you might think from what I wrote that I do. I am addressing the belief because it was explicitly stated by an individual person to whom I am replying.January 25, 2021 12:53 am at 12:53 am #1942112emes nisht shekerParticipant
Saying it was created for man to use is all very well, but how we use it has to be dictated by our understanding of it. If you know your use of it is damaging and will impact your children in the future from being able to use it, is that okay? I know we have to hope for Moshiach, but we still need to do tachlis and plan for the future. Do you not have life insurance or any retirement accounts? Why is the environment less worthy of future consideration than your bank account? Scientists who specialize in this field seem to pretty much uniformly agree that climate change is a major issue we need to deal with, so why not make the effort? Yeah, it might mean some sacrifices, but out standard of living in America is very high and it might not be so bad. Further, green initiatives, like EV’s, will make cities quieter and less polluted, which would be good for both mental and physical health, so there is a lot to benefit from it.
TLDR – invest in Tesla. Make money and improve the environment!
Disclaimer, I don’t offer any investment advice…January 25, 2021 7:56 am at 7:56 am #1942149YtParticipant
Question: will the sub run out of gas?January 25, 2021 9:26 am at 9:26 am #1942203charliehallParticipant
“Is there an value to not pollute, to reduce waste, etc?”
“בל תשחית” is from the Torah.
“a political party that they associate with atheism”
That political party is now led by a mass-going religious Catholic. He went to mass yesterday.January 25, 2021 9:37 am at 9:37 am #1942216CTLAWYERParticipant
As much as I enjoy the savings from having installed solar panels for electricity, I value the savings in Carbon Dioxide emissions, so my descendants will breathe cleaner air.
In the past 2.5 years we have produced 92.1% of our electric needs from solar (in our personal home, we have solar on all our properties now). Estimated savings on Electric bill $9301, BUT most important to me: CO2 emissions avoided 36.9 tons..January 25, 2021 10:00 am at 10:00 am #1942223Reb EliezerParticipant
It is part of the Torah of hakoras hatov where we are commanded not to destroy the environment Hashem provides to us by showing that we appreciate it as we have a resposbility to return tne neshomo clean as given to us.January 25, 2021 10:10 am at 10:10 am #1942231MenoParticipant
“בל תשחית” is from the Torah.
I’m so glad you mentioned that. It IS an issur in the Torah to waste money.January 25, 2021 10:37 am at 10:37 am #1942238commonsaychelParticipant
I just leased a hybrid car, the reason I got it was because the lease was cheapest if the gas guzzler would have been cheaper I would have gotten that. The fact that I spend less on gas is a plus, the environment had zero effect on my decision.
PS worshiping mother earth is avodah zorah plain and simple much to the dismay of the MO tikun haolam crowd.January 25, 2021 11:01 am at 11:01 am #1942246Yserbius123Participant
Rav Aryeh Carmell ZT”L wrote at length about how “ecofriendliness” is part of the Torah and we cannot disrespect our environment. I suggest we all read his essays on the matter before proceeding further.
Though I do admit that modern “green” movements are mostly about making people feel better about themselves. Even if everyone in the US would use reusable shopping bags, the impact on the environment would be minimal. The main things we need to worry about are big governments and companies that account for 90% of the world’s pollution.January 25, 2021 12:05 pm at 12:05 pm #1942278HealthParticipant
The thread was going so well. Why did you have to bring politics into it?January 25, 2021 12:15 pm at 12:15 pm #1942280HealthParticipant
Oh Charlie, -“That political party is now led by a mass-going religious Catholic. He went to mass yesterday”
Another Lib Lie!
How can you call him Religious?!?
Do you know what Catholicism believes with regards to getting Abortions?!?January 25, 2021 1:03 pm at 1:03 pm #1942301
” I do not believe that Jewish people are more disposed to this ridiculous belief than other people, and I find it incredible that you might think from what I wrote that I do. I am addressing the belief because it was explicitly stated by an individual person to whom I am replying.”
Nah, you are not. The OP didn’t “explicitly” state that s/he doesn’t care about humanity, or refrains from “mixing” with others, or anything about tolerance, art science, whatever. Nor did s/he say s/he was yeshivish, loved money, or anything about fancy eyeglasses. All of those things you dreamed up from your own prejudices and projected them onto the OP.January 25, 2021 1:10 pm at 1:10 pm #1942303
“The world was created for the use of it by humanity.
Chop down those trees.”
Agreed – but do you think we have a responsibility to use the world in as smart a way as our knowledge makes possible in order to maximize the benefit to humanity?January 25, 2021 2:37 pm at 2:37 pm #1942362
Avram, of course. I don’t think too many folks would disagree. But two points to consider is that the environmental wackos 1) want to prohibit useful activity for humanity and 2) under the guise of science claim that certain activities are harmful when the evidence of such is very weak.January 25, 2021 6:15 pm at 6:15 pm #1942394GadolhadorahParticipant
So if I understand correctly, its a big mitzvah to “soil your nest’? Somewhere between the mindless trolls of “chop down those trees” and the new age veneration of the 614th mitzvah of “tikun olam” there is a logical middle ground of finding ways of using resources in a sustainable way and limiting our pollution of the planet which results in misery and suffering for many of its inhabitants.January 25, 2021 6:16 pm at 6:16 pm #1942403Reb EliezerParticipant
Malenoma occurs because of destroying the ozione layer created by Hashem to protect us from the sun.January 25, 2021 7:42 pm at 7:42 pm #1942423commonsaychelParticipant
@Reb Eliezer, firstly use spell check its Ozone layer, second Hashem can repair the hole without our helpJanuary 26, 2021 5:01 am at 5:01 am #1942544YtParticipant
@commonsaychal but u know it’s not likely nowadays,
Also my original question: do you believe that the sun will ever run out of gas?!January 27, 2021 5:02 pm at 5:02 pm #1943122ParticipantParticipant
scientists have lost all credibility in this area. for twenty years we were doomed for the ice age then in the 90s it became global warming and a few years ago it got changed to climate change, a scary word for ‘weather’.
the whole green movement is pushed by the huge green industry, thanks to al gore who had to stay relevant after he lost the election.
it’s well known that such vital moral programs like recycling and the like harms the environment.January 27, 2021 6:06 pm at 6:06 pm #1943130Always_Ask_QuestionsParticipant
I recall Melech David was asked whether he prefers a natural disaster – pandemic, climate change, or the war. He preferred the natural punishment as there is no limit to human cruelty once it is unleashed.
20th century illustrates it well with two WWs, communists and Nazis. There were lots of “useful idiots” in USA and Western Europe who would protest every Western action against Commies, but not other way around ….
I don’t think anything changed much – if we can decrease advances of Russia/China/Iran/Norks and leave more dirty air to our children, that’s Ok. So, if we can have Canadian oil instead of Russian, this is OK. If you want to reduce pollution in a smart way, you can, for exanple, put a tariff on everything China is producing using energy from dirty coal and slave labor in North Korea. Just keep your priorities straight.
- You must be logged in to reply to this topic.