February 8, 2015 3:02 am at 3:02 am #614815
All the frum growth seems to be happening in Lakewood. At one time rumor had it that the children’s yeshivas in Brooklyn, especially the non-chasidic ones, were shrinking. Now the word on the street is that they’ve stabilized. But even stabilization means a non-growth rate. Naturally the population should be increasing.
Even within the chasidic community, they say that in the lower avenues of Boro Park the non-Jewish Oriental population from Sunset Park in buying out and replacing many of the frum residents.
A related issue is that housing costs have gone through the roof (pardon the pun) for both buying and renting – perhaps even especially with renting.
Is this true? Can anything be done? Your opinions, please.
P.S. I hear that the same thing is happening in frum out-of-town communities, where to an even larger degree than in Brooklyn the young couples are getting married and living in Lakewood – and the frum population is notably shrinking in many towns.February 8, 2015 5:23 am at 5:23 am #1063544
From 10 ave and below the Chinese are becoming the majority that’s true I can’t confirm anything elseFebruary 8, 2015 6:01 am at 6:01 am #1063545GolemGorillaMember
Lior Blame the self hating-Jews at the NYT for constantly publishing articles bashing the frum community, for the stabilizing population growth in the frum community in Brooklyn.February 8, 2015 7:19 am at 7:19 am #1063546
Lakewood has BMG as a backup for growing families from single boys to marriage & kollel many years after marriage.
what can YOU provide for the Brooklyn community (as much as the fact that its much larger then Lakewood or monsey etc…) that will make it a town for growth from start to finish (not only for working or older families)
ever heard the line “when a bochur comes back from Israel he heads straight to Lakewood”? cause there is no place in Brooklyn (as big as Brooklyn is) for bochrim to grow & head towards marriage.
BOTTOM LINE: Lakewood can cover you from birth to retirement etc… but Brooklyn is missing a few steps of that journey. so when a person reaches one of those steps, he needs to move to a town that has that step.
1)can you open up a BMG type yeshiva in Brooklyn for boys coming back from Israel until they get married & join a kollel?
2)can you make housing more affordable for a simple couple that the husband is learning? (Lakewood needs cheaper also but they are at least now cheaper then Brooklyn)February 8, 2015 1:25 pm at 1:25 pm #1063547TheGoqParticipant
I hear more people want to live in Manhattan rather than Staten Island too.February 8, 2015 3:24 pm at 3:24 pm #1063548charliehallParticipant
“Is this true? Can anything be done? “
Build more low and moderate income housing.February 8, 2015 4:24 pm at 4:24 pm #1063549
Charlie: Where do you build it? I haven’t noticed many open parcels of land in frum Brooklyn.
Sam: Where is there any BMG type yeshiva (in the US) other than BMG itself?
KJC: Why are the frum selling out on 10th Ave. and below? Considering the dire housing shortage in BP, one would expect that the buyers would be other frum families rather than outsiders.February 8, 2015 4:56 pm at 4:56 pm #1063550
if you can open up a yeshiva like BMG for boys that return to Israel then you can have them REMAIN in Brooklyn & even stay there after getting marriage. but due to lacking this they go to Lakewood & then STAY there even after getting married so Brooklyn loses a customer & money of future property taxes when he would buy a home etc….February 8, 2015 6:40 pm at 6:40 pm #1063551
Because the Chinese are buying it at higher prices the houses for sale around there are usually from old yidden that died and the family just sells it to who pays the mostFebruary 8, 2015 7:51 pm at 7:51 pm #1063552theroshyeshivaParticipant
I have chaverim that moved from lakewood to Brooklyn after a few years in kollel once they found work here in the city.February 8, 2015 11:21 pm at 11:21 pm #1063553yaakov doeParticipant
Greedy landlords are partly responsile. I can understand the new owmer with a high mortgage payment, but why can’t the long time home owner accept a reasonable rent from a frum family. Money isn’t everything.February 8, 2015 11:24 pm at 11:24 pm #1063554newyokaMember
one word “eruv” its Brooklyn downfall always was and always will beFebruary 9, 2015 12:11 am at 12:11 am #1063555
Brooklyn is over that’s allFebruary 10, 2015 5:10 am at 5:10 am #1063556
High housing costs in frum Brooklyn may be an intractable problem without any good solution considering that there isn’t much room to build further in our neighborhoods. A potential solution is to buy out adjacent non-frum neighborhoods, expanding block-by-block starting from the last blocks of our neighborhoods. But even that may be prohibitively expensive.February 10, 2015 6:30 am at 6:30 am #1063557twistedParticipant
It is the curse of the ????? that the land under your feet shifts. Think of all the built capital of former Jewish strongholds such as Haarlem, Lower Manhatten, South Queens (Jamaica,Laurelton, st Albans). All my adult years in NY (been gone ten years) my grandparents’ Little Jerusalem of Brownsville was empty grass lands.February 10, 2015 4:32 pm at 4:32 pm #1063558
Lior, I keep thinking that it would be so nice if Boro Park meets Bensenhurst with all frum families in btwn. Sad reality is the ones in btwn arent interested in movingFebruary 10, 2015 5:11 pm at 5:11 pm #1063559flatbusherParticipant
Lakewood today is not what it used to be. For people who want to learn there, if they depend on their wives for support, there are no real jobs there and many just start playgroups/babysitting services. One day, people will wake up and realize that Lakewood is just not a feasible option. Reasonable housing won’t make much difference if husbands continue to learn and not work, though it may keep more younger people. Brooklyn itself may not be played; people just may have to pioneer less expensive neighborhoods.February 10, 2015 5:43 pm at 5:43 pm #1063560zahavasdadParticipant
Brookykn is now considered Hip and Cool (nothing to do with Jews) and alot of people want to live in Brooklyn now, the prices are just going up up up.
Lakewood is not cool so people (except for frum jews) dont want to live there and the prices can be lowerFebruary 11, 2015 12:22 am at 12:22 am #1063561
zahavasdad, maybe bec Brooklyns close proximity to Manhattan.February 11, 2015 12:32 pm at 12:32 pm #1063562
For the right price the nochrim on the edges on the neighborhoods would be willing to sell, and thus allowing us to expand the frum neighborhoods.February 11, 2015 1:24 pm at 1:24 pm #1063563TheGoqParticipant
and hey you got the Nets and soon the Islanders!February 11, 2015 1:25 pm at 1:25 pm #1063564emanParticipant
Had Nachman Caller been elected, the housing problem would have been solved.February 11, 2015 1:42 pm at 1:42 pm #1063565MammeleParticipant
The right price plus necessary renovation costs is basically only affordable for millionaires. News flash: most of us don’t cut it…February 12, 2015 3:38 am at 3:38 am #1063566
So what should people do about this housing shortage if they want to continue living in Brooklyn but they aren’t wealthy?February 18, 2015 3:04 am at 3:04 am #1063567
Apparently Brooklyn is destined to be a haven only for the wealthy.March 11, 2015 5:34 am at 5:34 am #1063568
Perhaps the not-rich oilem can expand into a non-Jewish Brooklyn neighborhood until there’s a critical mass of frumkeit.March 11, 2015 11:39 am at 11:39 am #1063569DaMosheParticipant
Joseph, you say “all” the growth is in Lakewood for frum Jews. I disagree. In Teaneck, the frum Jewish population is growing by leaps and bounds. If you go a bit further South from there, you get to the Elizabeth area. There are a few communities there – Elizabeth, Hillside, Springfield, and Linden, all of which are growing. I know many people who moved to Florida. I believe the Boca area is growing nicely.March 11, 2015 12:11 pm at 12:11 pm #1063570
DaMoshe, in relative terms, the frum growth in Lakewood is many multiple times the frum growth in all the areas you cited combined.March 11, 2015 1:03 pm at 1:03 pm #1063571DaMosheParticipant
That may be true. That doesn’t mean it doesn’t exist. I don’t know what the rate of growth is in Lakewood. Do you mean the growth as far as actual people, as a percentage, or both? You may be surprised at the growth in some other communities!
Another area that is growing quickly is the Far Rockaway/Five Towns area. The Bayswater neighborhood has many young people moving in, as do Woodmere and Cedarhurst.March 11, 2015 5:40 pm at 5:40 pm #1063572
Deerfield Beach has grown to nearly 1,000 families, and next door to Boca Raton. Because they are very large communities, the percentage growth in the Five Towns, Far Rockaway, Teaneck or West Hempstead might be smaller than Lakewood, but not the gross numbersMarch 11, 2015 6:26 pm at 6:26 pm #1063573
Joseph, you suggest “not-rich oilem can expand into a non-Jewish Brooklyn neighborhood until there’s a critical mass of frumkeit.”
The problem is Brooklyn is an expensive place to live in jewish or not.
Also, there isnt much availablity at all, even outside of the shmaltz neighborhoods.March 11, 2015 8:11 pm at 8:11 pm #1063574
Many newcomers to Brooklyn don’t realize how far frum communities have already expanded. In the early 1950’s my in laws were living in a basement apartment in Borough Park and expecting a second child. Not finding anything in BP, they moved to the wilds of Midwood, Avenue M and East 13 street. There was only ONE Kosher restaurant. When I bought my first Brooklyn house in the late 1970’s I couldn’t afford to buy where my in-laws lived and so we bought on the frontier, East 21 and Avenue N. We were the second frum family on the block.March 11, 2015 10:02 pm at 10:02 pm #1063575BklynerParticipant
I think that a majority of the future generation frum people will not be staying in Brooklyn, they’ll be moving mostly to NJ/Monsey/FR & Five Towns.
The only people who’ll stay are the chassidish crowd who will take over Flatbush (and make it a 2nd BP).
There are some in the Litvish/Modern crowd who are trying to move into Marine Park and even Mill Basin for the cheaper housing. However, as i mentioned before the future generation will be leaving Brooklyn.March 11, 2015 10:37 pm at 10:37 pm #1063576
Monsey and the Five Towns aren’t cheap, and taxes, commutation and tuition are much higher than BrooklynMarch 12, 2015 2:12 am at 2:12 am #1063577
“Because they are very large communities, the percentage growth in the Five Towns, Far Rockaway, Teaneck or West Hempstead might be smaller than Lakewood, but not the gross numbers”
The gross numbers as well as the percent of frum growth in Lakewood far exceeds the combined total of frum growth in the places you cited.March 12, 2015 4:55 am at 4:55 am #1063578
Lakewood is the only community that I know that is still building homes at 600 miles an hour even as bad as the economy was. they never slow down on building & as soon as a neighborhood is complete I here a new complex or neighborhood is starting to be built CAUSE ITS NEEDED for the growth of the town not just for the builders & contracters…March 12, 2015 4:56 am at 4:56 am #1063579
although don’t forget that NJ is the highest rates in property taxes in the entire country of the USA
- You must be logged in to reply to this topic.