Is eating in succah on Shabbos Breishis considered Bal Tosef?

Home Forums Yom Tov Simchas Torah Is eating in succah on Shabbos Breishis considered Bal Tosef?

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  • #600046

    YW Band
    Member

    I believe these are the 2 tzedodim:

    Do you say since you set up the succah l’sheim mitzvah & since there is no mitzvah now & Simchas Torah is assur, so the same should follow with Shabbos. OR since there is no real tircha & youve already shown a chiluk between Shmini Ateres & Simchas Torah?

    Gut Yom Tov & A Gutten K’vitel to all!

    #977921

    sam4321
    Participant

    See Shulchan Aruch 666:5,6 it seems that one should avoid it unless he follow the directions of the SA.(that is simchas Torah ,shabbas berishis is already 2 days after yom tov which is not immediately after the chag,tzrich iyun)

    #977923

    2scents
    Participant

    No. Since it is the same as eating in a tent. The Sheila arises the day after sukkos which is shmini atzeres.

    #977924

    YW Band
    Member

    My Rav answered me YES!

    Because the gemara says that since its normal for people to go outside on a nice day to eat, Shabbos is no different than a regular day. Whereas Simchas Torah is definitely bal tosef.

    #977925

    2scents
    Participant

    Yw band, what did your rov answer? Yes as in yes you are permitted, or yes that there is a problem?

    Shabbos is not simchas hatorah. Its issru chag.

    #977926

    ravshalom
    Participant

    I believe that if it is a nice day it would be fine, but if it’s overly cold, or to sleep, would be problematic, because it seems that you are there because of the mitzva. This is why we pasken to eat but not sleep in the sukka on Shmini Atzeres (in chutz laaretz), because eating is not obviously abnormal but sleeping is.

    This reasoning is further extended to explain why many Chasidim do not eat in the Sukka on Shmini Atzeres, or eat only during the day, contrary to the psak of the Gemara. The explanation given is that while in ??? it was warm enough to eat in the Sukka and not arouse suspicion, in Eastern Europe it was frigid and thus being done obviously for the mitzva, which would be problematic because of ?? ?????.

    #977927

    Sam2
    Participant

    Ravshalom: And in places in America where it’s warm enough?

    #977928

    akuperma
    Participant

    If it was, wouldn’t be a problem when a shul has the “in the middle of davening” kiddush in the sukkah on Simchas Torah (which in America is 100% not sukkos)? Or the leining when they set up additional leinings on Simchas Torah?

    #977929

    rasha gamur
    Member

    Eating in the succah for shabbos bereishis is the crummest chumra in the world. There is no basis whatsoever in halacha or minhagim to do so. Once were eating in the succah, we might as well blow shofar through chanukah, since there is an unyan of teshuva extending until chanukah brought down in the zohar.

    #977930

    klach
    Member

    “Eating in the succah for shabbos bereishis is the crummest chumra in the world.”

    There are many things people do that are much worse in regards to chumras.

    #977931

    rasha gamur
    Member

    “There are many things people do that are much worse in regards to chumras.”

    This is pretty wild and up there in terms of hashchasa

    #977932

    metrodriver
    Member

    Sam4321 & YW Band; Your (Band) Rav was 100% right. It states clearly in the Mishne Brurah (At the above chapter cited by Sam.) that if someone were to sit in the Sukkah on any other day than Shmini Atzeres or Simchas Torah, they don’t have to make a “Hekker” (Not to be confused with “Hacker”,) that they are not doing it for the Mitzvah, where it would be considered “Bal Tosif”. Logic supports that contention, too. Suppose, someone were to sit in the Sukkah on Chanukah, they would be considered nuts.

    #977933

    Sam2
    Participant

    Metrodriver: That’s just because it’s not adding to the Mitzvah unless it’s connected to the Mitzvah somehow. The interesting issue is that if someone ate in the Sukkah on Friday and was Over on Bal Tosif whether it’s another Bal Tosif for continuing onto the next day. (I feel like a Rishon specifically says it’s still not Bal Tosif but I can’t remember it so I could just be imagining it.)

    #977934

    old man
    Participant

    It is definitely bal tosif. The reasoning that “people eat outside on a nice day” is relevant if that is actually what people do. How many people in Boro park, Lakewood or Monsey eat outside on a nice day in late October in a tent? Virtually no one.

    #977935

    YW Band
    Member

    Old man: Thats definitely true but I thought once it’s up might as well. This year most people will be taking it down before shabbos but the next 2 years is back to a 3 day yom tov awww…

    #977936

    Bar Shattya
    Member

    Bal Tishaktzu

    #977937

    REALIST
    Member

    If you eat shmura matzo oduring that meal, then you are showing that you are doing the seuda leshem Pesach; and it would be OK.

    #977938

    RABBAIM
    Participant

    If you have in mind to fulfill the Mitzvah of Succah it is Baal Tosef even in mid January!

    #977939

    Chortkov
    Participant

    ????? ?? ??? ????? ??? ????? ??? ?????. – ??? ???? ?? ???? ?. I believe that shabbos bereshis can be classified as ‘shelo bizmano’, and therefore one will be oiver if one sits on shabbos bereshis. Meaning that if one is sitting for shade then it is ok.

    #977940

    REALIST
    Member

    I have a better question.

    If I overeat on Erev Yom Kippur (when it’s a mitzvah to eat) am I oiver Baal Toisef?

    #977941

    Oh Shreck!
    Participant

    NO. But it could be you would be permitted (or at least not chayev) to continue eating on Yom Kippur. Check it up.

    #977942

    REALIST
    Member

    Shreck, HUH????

    #977943

    Sam2
    Participant

    Realist: No, because that is not what Bal Tosif means. And Shreck is 100% correct. Sort of.

    #977944

    REALIST
    Member

    Sam2…

    Have you no sense of humor??

    My comment was typed tongue-in-cheek.

    (Yes, it happened to be empty for a change!)

    #977945

    Sam2
    Participant

    Realist: Oh. But Shreck was right according to most Poskim. (I feel like there is a Sha’agas Aryeh who disagrees but I might be misremembering that.)

    #977946

    Torah613Torah
    Participant

    It’s bal tigra from Oneg Shabbos.

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