Is hanging pictures of leaders considered to be Avoda Zora?

Home Forums Bais Medrash Is hanging pictures of leaders considered to be Avoda Zora?

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  • #1368129
    Joseph
    Participant

    Some Gedolei Yisroel held as such.

    #1368149
    Takes2-2tango
    Participant

    If the frames are made of indian hair then theres a good chance that it’s ossur

    #1368150
    jakob
    Participant

    it depends

    if the household puts it up so he & his children can look at the tzaddik as a role model & hope to learn from his ways then it can be hanging in his home or office

    on the other hand if it is a rebba or mekubal etc… that is looked at or viewed/treated like a g-d/avoda zara then it cannot be hanging in his house.

    i.e. if you need someone to turn to or depend on then turn to Hashem for help. who is there more of a chance of being answered, Hashem straight or a messenger of Hashem

    #1368339
    Lightbrite
    Participant

    What if your parents are leaders? Can you hang up pictures of your parents?

    #1368343
    Yechi Hamelech
    Participant

    Dont think its avodah zara but it may be
    an issur on the lav “Lo Selech b’Derech Hagoyim”
    (not sure if that’s the terminology the Torah uses)

    #1368427
    HaLeiVi
    Participant

    Is hanging a picture of a Hindu Guru Avoda Zara? Is hanging a picture of an Avoda Zara an Issur of Avoda Zara? No. But if you hate Chassidim then obviously, very obviously, anything about them is โ€” you got it โ€” Avoda Zarah.

    #1368450
    Joseph
    Participant

    Actually Chasidishe Gedolim tend to be the most makpid in prohibiting such photography.

    #1368463
    ๐Ÿ‘‘RebYidd23
    Participant

    Wait, who hates Chassidim?

    #1368466
    Lightbrite
    Participant

    Is putting a picture of someone on your computer desktop avodah zara?

    #1368609
    Yechi Hamelech
    Participant

    Joseph, there is no such thing as Chassidishe Gedolim. Chassidim have Rebbeim; not Gedolim
    and hanging the picture of a Rebbe or Gadol is very different than hanging just any leader

    #1368620

    #1368665
    Joseph
    Participant

    chochom: You think every Rebbe’le is on the same level as, say, the Satmar Rebbe, Gerrer Rebbe, Skulener Rebbe, etc.? Of course there are Chasidish Gedolei Yisroel.

    And how is hanging a picture of a Godol different than hanging a picture of another leader, insofar as A”Z is concerned?

    #1368749
    Gadolhadorah
    Participant

    Obviously, the answer is contextual…..if a shul were to post a picture of Trump in the lobby as a sign of respect, there is little likelihood (with the exception of a few resident Trumpkopfs) of such a picture triggering any concerns of avodah zarah. Likewise, the obligatory photo of the Rebbe, TZL, in many chabad homes is no more or less avodah zorah than the guys who run up and down Eastern Parkway with yellow flags singing “Rebbe is Moishiach”. Same, I’m sure for other chassidus where I’ve seen playing cards (like baseball cards) with photos of their rebbe and other rabbonim in that Chassidiseshe Court. Not sure about Litvish practices on photos but just about every Livtvish home has family photos on the wall

    #1368777
    ๐Ÿ‘‘RebYidd23
    Participant

    Is hanging a picture that your child drew Avoda Zora?

    #1368847
    JJ2020
    Participant

    Is having a picture of the late lubavicher rebbe that days yechi hamelech avodah Zara? And having a picture of him in your siddur and gemorah that you look at before learning and davening?

    Many big rabbis have pictures of gedolim in their houses. Although as pointed out in another thead I think it’s becoming more the style to have alot less stuff including pictures around.

    #1368848
    JJ2020
    Participant

    Reb yid – if it’s an elephant with six arms.

    #1368851
    Gadolhadorah
    Participant

    To RebYid…

    Obviously, it depends on the picture….if the picture was the usual stuff kids draw in school, no problem; if it were to be an image of some goiyeshe god, than probably not a good idea

    #1369157
    ๐Ÿ‘‘RebYidd23
    Participant

    Problem is, a kid drew it. Hard to know what it’s a picture of.

    #1369710
    Yechi Hamelech
    Participant

    Joseph,
    Of course, Rebbeim are gedolei yisroel but they are not referred to as such; that’s what I meant.
    And there is definitely a difference between Rebbeim/gedolim and other veltishe leaders
    .

    #1369720
    Joseph
    Participant

    Chochom: Not every Rebbe’le is from the Gedolei HaDor. That’s all I meant by differentiating between the Chasidishe Gedolei Yisroel and other Rebbes. For example, the Satmar Rebbe zt’l was a Rebbe’s Rebbe.

    As far as the difference, sure, but how is it different as far as avoda zora is concerned, which is the topic under discussion here.

    #1369787
    GAON
    Participant

    Simple,
    hanging= no
    Worshipping the picture = yes

    #1369801
    Joseph
    Participant

    statue = no
    worshipping the statue = yes
    ?

    #1370121
    TheFakeMaven
    Participant

    Joseph: statue might actually be an issur as per the Shulchan Aruch. A picture is a different story since it is not 3D.

    #1370201
    DaMoshe
    Participant

    There was a Haggadah that was used in the Vishnitz community in Israel that said when you eat the Matzah, you should picture the Rebbe in your mind and think about him. Is that a problem?

    #1370143
    Joseph
    Participant

    What’s your halachic basis for differentiating between a statue of a person and a photograph of a person?

    #1370246

    Start with a pasuk in the Torah – pesel kol temunah – then work through the sugya.

    #1370475
    GAON
    Participant

    I will quote the words of Rambam: (read carefully 3:16)
    ื”ืœื›ื•ืช ืขื‘ื•ื“ื” ื–ืจื” ืคืจืง ื’
    ื˜ื• ืืกื•ืจ ืœืขืฉื•ืช ืฆื•ืจื•ืช ืœื ื•ืื™, ื•ืืฃ ืขืœ ืคื™ ืฉืื™ื ืŸ ืขื‘ื•ื“ื” ื–ืจื”: ืฉื ืืžืจ “ืœื ืชืขืฉื•ืŸ, ืื™ืชื™: ืืœื•ื”ื™ ื›ืกืฃ ื•ืืœื•ื”ื™ ื–ื”ื‘” (ืฉืžื•ืช ื›,ื™ื˜)–ื›ืœื•ืžืจ ืฆื•ืจื•ืช ืฉืœ ื›ืกืฃ ื•ืฉืœ ื–ื”ื‘ ืฉื”ืŸ ืœื ื•ืื™, ื›ื“ื™ ืฉืœื ื™ื˜ืขื• ื‘ื”ืŸ ื”ื˜ื•ืขื™ื ื•ื™ื“ืžื• ืฉื”ืŸ ืœืขื‘ื•ื“ื”. ื•ืื™ืŸ ืืกื•ืจ ืœืฆื•ืจ ืœื ื•ืื™, ืืœื ืฆื•ืจืช ื”ืื“ื ื‘ืœื‘ื“.

    ื˜ื– ืœืคื™ื›ืš ืื™ืŸ ืฆืจื™ืŸ, ืœื ื‘ืขืฅ ื•ืœื ื‘ืกื™ื“ ื•ืœื ื‘ืื‘ืŸ, ืฆื•ืจืช ื”ืื“ื: ื•ื”ื•ื ืฉืชื”ื ื”ืฆื•ืจื” ื‘ื•ืœื˜ืช, ื›ื’ื•ืŸ ื”ืฆื™ื•ืจ ื•ื”ื›ื™ื•ืจ ืฉื‘ื˜ืจืงืœื™ืŸ ื•ื›ื™ื•ืฆื ื‘ื”ืŸ; ื•ืื ืฆืจ, ืœื•ืงื”. ืื‘ืœ ืื ื”ื™ื™ืชื” ื”ืฆื•ืจื” ืžื•ืฉืงืขืช, ืื• ืฆื•ืจื” ืฉืœ ืกืžื ื™ืŸ ื›ื’ื•ืŸ ื”ืฆื•ืจื•ืช ืฉืขืœ ื’ื‘ื™ ื”ืœื•ื—ื•ืช ื•ื”ื˜ื‘ืœื™ื•ืช, ืื• ืฆื•ืจื•ืช ืฉืจื•ืงืžื™ืŸ ื‘ืืจื™ื’–ื”ืจื™ ืืœื• ืžื•ืชืจื•ืช.

    #1372527
    Joseph
    Participant

    I still don’t see a differentiation between a statue of a man and a photograph of a man in the sugya.

    #1372538
    Lightbrite
    Participant

    “Whatโ€™s your halachic basis for differentiating between a statue of a person and a photograph of a person?” (Joseph)

    Isn’t there a GIANT difference between having a 3D image of someone vs. a photograph?

    I thought that’s straight from Torah. Am I mistaken?

    Thank you

    #1372704
    GAON
    Participant

    Joseph,
    Are you arguing on the Rambam? or you missed the words of the Rambam?

    ื•ื”ื•ื ืฉืชื”ื ื”ืฆื•ืจื” ื‘ื•ืœื˜ืช
    i.e. sculpture type ONLY – NOT portraits etc.

    ….ืื‘ืœ ืื ื”ื™ื™ืชื” ื”ืฆื•ืจื” ืžื•ืฉืงืขืช, ืื• ืฆื•ืจื” ืฉืœ ืกืžื ื™ืŸ ื›ื’ื•ืŸ ื”ืฆื•ืจื•ืช
    .ื”ืจื™ ืืœื• ืžื•ืชืจื•ืช

    #1372708
    Gadolhadorah
    Participant

    worshiping or venerating ANY physical image, representation or whatever is assur so you guys can dance on the head of a pin but the outcome is still the same ….lo taaseh lacha pesel v’chol tamuna……

    #1372840
    GAON
    Participant

    Godal – Agreed. worshiping anything is Asuur (as posted above).
    However, there is a separate Issur on sculpturing a full image of a person, sun or moon.

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