Is HebrewBooks Holier Than Sefaria?

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  • #1737326

    Neville ChaimBerlin
    Participant

    Are the sometimes-eligible, scanned pdf’s on HebrewBooks more holy to learn from than the texts on sefaria? Is learning from an actual sefer holier than both?

    #1737439

    ubiquitin
    Participant

    Love it!

    Though not as much as I love Sefaria and Hebrew books
    both are quite holy

    #1737433

    Joseph
    Participant

    What about Otzar Hachochma or Bar-Illan?

    #1737434

    The little I know
    Participant

    NCB:

    Comparing apples and oranges. I have used both. No similarity.

    HB allows for download. Then the sefer is on my hard drive. I can print out what I need, and always have access to it. The pdf format is quite user friendly.

    Sefaria is a memory heavy website, and won’t open on many devices. Okay on my desktop, not on my phone or tablet (even though permitted by my filter). The text is better for copy and paste into other documents, less convenient in the HB pdf format.

    Depends on your needs.

    #1737436

    laskern
    Participant

    The Torah Temimo’s view is that the rule of placing seforim on each other only applies to parchment. The holiness of printed seforim is all the same.

    #1737524

    musser zoger
    Participant

    Laskern,

    The ruling permitting placing sefarim on each other is from the Aruch HaShulchan. Torah Temimah’s father.

    #1737494

    musser zoger
    Participant

    Laskern,

    You are misquoting. The Torah Temima’s father. the Aruch HaShaShulchan rules that printed books may be placed on each other.

    #1737508

    laskern
    Participant

    I think, once it is scaned to disk and printed from there , they are all the same.

    #1737702

    Neville ChaimBerlin
    Participant

    The Little:

    You can download from Sefaria also. I’ve never tried it. HebrewBooks has a billion times as many books, but a good chunk of them are not actually usable.

    I don’t like how Sefaria just scrolls forever instead of having pages. It’s very prone to crashing (I only use it on a PC, not as an app or anything).

    By the way, there’s a trick to use “beta.” instead of “www.” for HebrewBooks. It’s like the same site, but way more user friendly and with some more features. It might be a just a little bit less holy than using www. though.

    #1737841

    ubiquitin
    Participant

    “It might be a just a little bit less holy than using www. though.”

    and there I thought the beta version is holier

    #1737896

    GAON
    Participant

    TLIK, Nev.
    “Sefaria is a memory heavy website”

    Not if you download in entirely, I downloaded all onto my SD card. Its MUCH less memory than Heb books will ever have as its digital text. I takes up a gb plus and you have off-line access to T’nach, Halachah, (rambam, shu”a and most nosei kelim) Shas and many others.

    The features are also, no way even comparable, you click on the text (anywhere in Tanach, Shas, Shu”a) and you have the meforshim/midrashim…M”M, etc on the side.

    Perhaps try to updating it.

    In any case, its apples and oranges…

    #1737989

    Long island Yid
    Participant

    Can anybody help me and explain to me.
    Is Sefaria kosher to use?
    After all it seems to be run by non-religious people who probably one shouldn’t rely on for mesorah appropriate translations etc.
    Also I’ve been told that they sometimes use Christian sources for translations.
    Please all, It seems like a pretty good site, so I’d love to download from them but without any guilt or misgivings. Thanks all.

    #1738080

    ubiquitin
    Participant

    “Is Sefaria kosher to use?”

    without question, yes

    #1738100

    ☕ DaasYochid ☕
    Participant

    Anyone can participate, and I think it’s not run by frum people. I don’t know why there shouldn’t at least be a question.

    #1738122

    Joseph
    Participant

    Is the concern with Sefaria’s translation or also with the original Hebrew text?

    Why do non-religious people have an interest in participating or owning this?

    #1738105

    Neville ChaimBerlin
    Participant

    They have some pretty non-kosher stuff I believe, especially in the “apocrypha” section if I recall correctly.

    #1738351

    Neville ChaimBerlin
    Participant

    “Why do non-religious people have an interest in participating or owning this?”
    I thought the creators were actually MO guys, but it’s possible that it was created by secular academics (not unlike Jastrow).

    The ability the click the text and have to refer you to a corresponding one might have been open-sourced. Meaning, it’s possible some of those connections were set up on Shabbos by a non-religious person. I’m probably making problem out of nothing, but that was kind of the idea with this thread.

    Sefaria also has an API for those of us who are nerds. Unfortunately, I haven’t really gotten it to work for me. The query for a Hebrew text always comes back at strings of numbers and such.

    #1739229

    Rebbe Yid
    Participant

    The seforim are seforim on sefaria but there’s a lot of added material like essays and translations that come from who-knows-where. I’ve seen some Open Orthodox authors. The first thing that came to mind was that it would be like learning in the JTS library–you can pick up a gemara, but who knows what else is around you. That being said, the interface much more up to date, but you can’t easily download and the selection is much smaller.

    #1746132

    Neville ChaimBerlin
    Participant

    Is godaven holier after the updates within the past year that made it clunky and less user-friendly?
    When the CR was updated and everyone lost their descriptions and many old threads were ruined, did the CR increase in kedushah?

    #1746205

    balebos
    Participant

    I thought sefaria was owned by reform Jews?

    #1746274

    Neville ChaimBerlin
    Participant

    I looked into it a little bit now.

    The founder, Brett Lockspeiser, is 100% secular. Presumably the co-founder also is, but I can’t find that information. Because it was a start up thing, it’s almost guaranteed that Jews were developing on Shabbos to create the platform. Siddurim made with machallel Shabbos are a big problem/question of whether or not you’re yotzei using them. I’m not sure if there’s any comparison here though.

    I’m comforted in knowing that if it were assur to use, we would have all heard about it by now.

    #1746335

    ah yid
    Participant

    I don’t see any problem using Sefaria. The first seforim ever printed was printed by non-jews. I also don’t see the comparison between Sefaria and Hebrew books. Hebrew books are specific seforim which are scanned. If you have to find a certain passage in a sefer Hebrew books is good, but you often have to scroll through many pages until you find the page you are looking for. Sefaria on the hand is unformatted but its major accomplishment is its cross-references You can scroll any posuk or gemara and find not only meforshim connected to that posuk, but any place that posuk or gemara is mentioned in many seforim.
    When I was learning In Torah Vodaath I asked Harav Belsky Zatz”l about using Jastrow, he told me “if you had a Greek word you don’t understand you could ask a greek person. You can use Jastrow.”

    #1746434

    Neville ChaimBerlin
    Participant

    “The first seforim ever printed was printed by non-jews.”
    What’s the mashal? I’m not talking about an inyan of getting something from a Jewish source or having it be created l’shem mitzvah. I’m talking about something created with chillul Shabbos.

    L’maaseh, I agree with you that it’s probably mutar and comparable to Jastrow, with the exception of the siddurim they have on Sefaria. But, I will say, I started the thread as somewhat of a joke, but I would now truly entertain the possibility that one should l’hatchilah try to use HebrewBooks over Sefaria.

    #1746478

    Pinchas
    Participant

    There is a lot more details and information in Wikipedia (and at the links quoted there.) It says much of the Hebrew texts come from other sources such as “on your way” (which is frum). Some translations come from Urim Publishers (also frum) and the Talmud translations come from Rav Steinsaltz. The site itself is open source though and it seems anyone can contribute. I would think use it and proceed with caution and always cross reference and double check sources. Same can be even said about more reliable sources like Artscroll where many errors have been found (and fixed in later editions). Regarding work done on Shabbos, I would think enough time passed now that they could have gotten that work done during the week and it would be permitted to benefit from now… Though this isn’t like a pedestrian bridge, it’s Torah so I can understand avoiding it on principle.

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