February 29, 2012 4:24 am at 4:24 am #602285susheeMember
Is it ever okay to change your minhag from one to another?
Example: Changing from waiting 6 hour to waiting 3 hours after fleishigs.February 29, 2012 5:14 am at 5:14 am #856879MDGParticipant
Ask a Rav.
I think that going either strict or lenient must be approached with caution.February 29, 2012 5:30 am at 5:30 am #856880moreMember
If it’s a minhag that requires a yerida to go along with it, I would strongly veto it. like your example above for instance, 3 hours is not as machmir as 6 hours. However you are best of consulting your familiar local orthodox Rabbi in rgrds to this matter.
G’luck!February 29, 2012 6:34 am at 6:34 am #856881mamashtakahMember
Machmir does not necessarily mean better.February 29, 2012 6:44 am at 6:44 am #856882
If your Minhag is a Minhag Ta’us then you can change it, even Lekula. Of course, waiting 3 hours is a Ta’us based on a typo in the Rabbeinu Yerucham, so no one should ever change to 3 hours (even if you used to wait one). But a Minhag Ta’us can be changed. Anything else needs a Hataras Nedarim and probably to ask a Shaila about as well.February 29, 2012 10:52 am at 10:52 am #856883ToiParticipant
No. Ask a rav. its generally not a good idea in yiddishkeit to decide things you’re entirely unfamiliar about on your own.February 29, 2012 1:35 pm at 1:35 pm #856884susheeMember
Sam: How about changing from 6 hours to 1 hour?
In general, can someone change a minhag he has held from?February 29, 2012 2:58 pm at 2:58 pm #856885yungerman1Participant
sushe- Read Sam2’s comment again.February 29, 2012 3:20 pm at 3:20 pm #856886Feif UnParticipant
The first Pesach after I got married, I was told that my wife’s family eats gebrokts, and not only that, they wouldn’t be accommodating to me and my non-gebrokts background. I asked a Rav what to do, and he told me to change my minhag. I asked if I needed to do hataras nedarim and he said no.February 29, 2012 3:26 pm at 3:26 pm #856887February 29, 2012 4:00 pm at 4:00 pm #856888fedup11210Member
Cherrybrim: Please keep your personal opinion to yourself. While I personaly eat Gebrokts, my paternal grandmothers family did not. It is not fair to make fun of a minhag/chumra that is observed by thousands upon thousands of yidden.
Feif un: There are other rabbanim who would not have paskened like your rav. My sister cooks special for her son-in-law as he does not eat gebrokts.February 29, 2012 4:00 pm at 4:00 pm #856889
The Chofetz Chaim and the Steipler had the “minhag shtus” of not eating gebruchts. Do you need to know which gedolim had the minhag shtus of Shmini Atzeres too?February 29, 2012 4:11 pm at 4:11 pm #856890popa_bar_abbaParticipant
The first Pesach after I got married, I was told that my wife’s family eats gebrokts, and not only that, they wouldn’t be accommodating to me and my non-gebrokts background.
That sounds awesome. Perfect excuse to never go to your inlaws on pesach!
Hmmm. I’ve got a good think coming. Maybe I should decide that I keep gebrokts too.February 29, 2012 4:28 pm at 4:28 pm #856891popa_bar_abbaParticipant
Why do the mods allow cherrybim’s blasphemy (or perhaps am haaratzus)?February 29, 2012 4:32 pm at 4:32 pm #856892
“Please keep your personal opinion to yourself.”
“minhag shtus” is not my personal opionion; words are not mine. You’ve got numerous g’dolim and poskim who will permit you to change; find one if you want to change.February 29, 2012 4:34 pm at 4:34 pm #856893
Fedup: Look up the history of Gebrochts. People may have kept it throughout the past 10 or so generations for whatever reason, but I think that someone is decently justified if they want to call it a Minhag Shtus. It’s a 300-year old Minhag against Mefurash Gemaros. You can’t get much more of a Minhag Ta’us than that.February 29, 2012 4:36 pm at 4:36 pm #856894
“The Chofetz Chaim had the “minhag shtus” of not eating gebruchts.”
Please provide a source for your statement.February 29, 2012 4:48 pm at 4:48 pm #856895gavra_at_workParticipant
What about a minhag shtus such as g’brochs or not eating in the succah shmini atzeres? Or when the reason for the minhag no longer exists? Well you’ve got numerous g’dolim and poskim who will permit you to change; find one.
Being Machmir on Pesach by definition is not Minhag Shtus, even if the Chumra is Shtus. I believe it is a Noda B’Yehuda.
Not eating in the Succah on Shmini atzeres is a Minhag Shtus, but being that the Hagaos Maymoni (quoted by the MA & Taz) tries to defend it, we shouldn’t go there.February 29, 2012 6:46 pm at 6:46 pm #856896
Cherrybim: Dugmas M’darchei Avi, page 30, Hanhugos of the Chofetz Chaim, as recorded by his son.February 29, 2012 6:50 pm at 6:50 pm #856897
“Being Machmir on Pesach by definition is not Minhag Shtus, even if the Chumra is Shtus.”
True, but not eating g’brochs goes against the g’marah and seichel. At the very worst you have 18 minutes once your matzah is put into the hot soup. And if you want to be machmir with g’brochs, don’t do korech at the sedar because for sure there is water moisture on the lettuce. And don’t eat g’brochs on the last day of pesach because it may still be chometz. It’s a minhag shtus which I, unfortunately, adhere to; but I don’t go nuts…er, I mean, crazy over.February 29, 2012 9:43 pm at 9:43 pm #856898MDGParticipant
In your list of what not to do to avoid gebrokts you forgot the most common one:
DON’T EAT MAZTA
The Shulchan Aruch paskins that saliva causes leavening. So when you eat matza you are making gebrokts in your mouth.February 29, 2012 10:42 pm at 10:42 pm #856899
The Chofetz Chaim should have checked with some of the posters here instead of having a minhag to not eat gebrochts. Too bad the posters weren’t around to set the Chofetz Chaim straight.March 1, 2012 3:22 am at 3:22 am #856900March 1, 2012 3:39 am at 3:39 am #856901fedup11210Member
Cherrybim:: I am not looking to change my minhag. I just don’t believe one should call a widely observed minhag/chumra as shtus unless you want to quote a specific gadol who writes that it is a minhag shtus. In addition, you state that you have 18 minutes from when the matza goes into the hot soup. Hot water speeds up the chimutz process and therefore you have less than 18 minutes.
Sam2: It is well known that R’ Yaakov Kaminetzky did not eat gebrokts even though his family minhag was to eat gebrokts. I believe he knew all the gemoras you are referring to.March 1, 2012 5:04 am at 5:04 am #856902
cherrybim: It specifically says he allowed his family while the CC himself didn’t. I only addressed the latter above. And I would shake with fear before C”V accusing the CC of having a minhag shtus.
As far as the Steipler — see Orchas Rabbeinu 2:49 page 50. He too didn’t eat gebrochts. Nor does Rav Chaim shlit”a. And Rav Yaakov Kamenetzky’s minhag was not to brok. See B’mechitzas Rabbeinu p.137.
I suppose the Chofetz Chaim, the Steipler, Rav Chaim shlit”a, and Rav Yaakov all had a “minhag shtus” according to your description.March 1, 2012 5:58 am at 5:58 am #856903NechomahParticipant
R’ Yaakov Kamenetsky’s minhag doesn’t come from his family. I read that he was once invited to a family for Pesach and he didn’t want, either kashrus issues in general or something else, but he didn’t want to insult them so he told them that he didn’t brok. He kept the minhag the rest of his life so as not to have told sheker.March 1, 2012 6:02 am at 6:02 am #856904
Fedup: It is also well known why R’ Kamenetzky didn’t eat Gebrochts and it had nothing to do with a Chumra/Minhag by Chametz on Pesach.March 1, 2012 3:56 pm at 3:56 pm #856905
“And I would shake with fear before C”V accusing the CC of having a minhag shtus.”
Yes, and I would too had it not indisputably been labeled such by gaonim and g’dolim of previous generations; and I don’t think you are that ignorant not to know who these gaonim and g’dolim were. And as I indicated before, I too keep this minhag shtus.March 1, 2012 5:38 pm at 5:38 pm #856906hershiMember
cherryb: Can you please specificially name AND SOURCE (as you requested of others) even a single godol who called this a minhag shtus?March 1, 2012 8:34 pm at 8:34 pm #856907YehudahTzviParticipant
What are the Gemara sources supporting the eating of Gebrochts?March 1, 2012 8:59 pm at 8:59 pm #856908
According to the Toldos Yaakov, while the Steipler’s family ate gebrochs, he did not until his older age. It would seem that it was not a family minhag, which is not surprising.March 1, 2012 9:33 pm at 9:33 pm #856909
“According to the Toldos Yaakov, while the Steipler’s family ate gebrochs, he did not until his older age. It would seem that it was not a family minhag, which is not surprising.”
Correction – Since the Steipler was chasidish, it would seem that it was a family minhag not to eat g’brochs, yet he allowed his family to eat g’brochs and he also ate g’brochs when it was convenient later on.March 2, 2012 8:13 am at 8:13 am #856910
Pesachim 40something, I think (and it’s in Brachos too) mentions that a Zaken or Choleh can even soak his Matzah in water so it’s easier to chew. And, as mentioned above, saliva is Mechametz. Thus, to really hold Gebrochts you couldn’t let Matzah come in contact with your saliva.
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